Gun Control

[therising]

Here's a topic that oughtta ruffle a few feathers.

My feeling on guns is this -

How often do you see the stories on the news about the tragedies (rare as they are) where a little kid picks up the parents gun, and kills a sibling. friend, etc..

Now I know everyone has the right to protect themselves. But, how often do you see a story where a burglary/robber/murderer/rapist was thwarted because the howeowner was packing heat.

Granted, my observations are based solely on what's in the News...MAYBE these stories just don't make it into the paper, but I kind of doubt it.

Deerhunter, or any other cop - I'd like to hear from you....How many times have you seen a crime stopped because the VICTIM had a gun????

PS - Can everyone please spare us the NRA bumpersticker slogans
(Guns don't kill people, people kill people)
(If you take away guns, then only criminals will have guns)

we've heard these all before please spare us!

[WNYresident]

I think guns are fine. Lets say we didn't have any and the police/government started to bone us even worse than they do now. Eventually we would have to do something. What would we do? Throw rocks the day it's totally out of hand.

People are starting to forget what made the USA great.

[rural lady]

Have hunted for 30+ years and have had my pistol permit for 20+ years,and if they cut the Sheriff's patrol out here in the country, what do you think I'll do if there is an intruder?

[Deerhunter]

but in the wrong hands, as so many are, the obvious destructive potential exists. Yea, there are times a gun has thwarted a robbery. I've read in the NRA magazine, stories where a gun stopped a crime from being committed. The bad part of guns comes in when the guy sells his guns, claims they were stolen, and they fall into the wrong hands. Or they genuinely do get stolen. I don't blame anyone for carrying a gun. Some people may be a bit overzealous, but for the most part, hoping for the chance to use it. I think most legal owners are rationally thinking individuals. If you do carry, just tell the Cop when you get pulled over. I don't like being surprised by seeing a gun under a waistband or in a glovebox or under a car seat. And if you have a kid in the house, keep the gun and/or ammo in a safe or firebox. Goes without saying. And I don't think there is any need for a homeowner to own an assault rifle or automatic weapon. Just my opinion.

[NoCtUrNaL]

In a situation where a criminal has a gun and a law abiding citizen has a gun...I think the criminal has the upper hand because the law abiding citizen won't be aware of the criminals intent until the criminal draws his weapon and by then it's too late.

I think they used to call that "getting the drop" on someone.

[therising]

Originally posted by Deerhunter
I've read in the NRA magazine, stories where a gun stopped a crime from being committed.

With all due respect to the god-fearing men and women of the NRA, this is obviously a biased source.
I wanted real-life situations.....how often does a crime get stopped by a law-abiding citizen with a gun, versus How many tragic accidents happen?

[avet]

I wanted real-life situations.....how often does a crime get stopped by a law-abiding citizen with a gun

Civilian Gun Self-Defense Blog
http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefe...g/blogger.html
Where Clayton Cramer and Pete Drum keep track of civilians using guns in self-defense.
....................................
the Armed Citizen
http://www.nrapublications.org/armed...izen/index.asp
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http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?ID=117
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Search the Armed Citizen Archives
During the decades the American Rifleman has published “The Armed Citizen” column, thousands of incidents of law-abiding Americans using firearms to halt or prevent crime have appeared in the magazine. Editorial space allowing, the total could have been far greater of course, as award-winning survey research shows that each year in the U.S. gun owners use firearms for protection as frequently as 2.5 million times.
This archive contains “Armed Citizen” entries from the present back to 1958. The database is searchable by key word and state and results are displayed in chronological order according to the month of publication in the American Rifleman.

http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx
JUST TYPE IN STATE NY - YOU DO NOT NEED ANY KEYWORDS

The Buffalo News, Buffalo, NY, 09/26/04
A 64-year-old Buffalo, N.Y., man was having his regular night out at a seniors social club when two armed, masked men approached a card table and demanded money. After a round was fired from an assailant's shotgun, the intended victim, thinking his friend who had fallen to the floor had been killed, pulled out his handgun and shot and killed one of the robbers. As the robber was hit with the bullet, his shotgun went off and hit his accomplice in the arm. The accomplice fled the scene but was later apprehended at a local medical center and charged with first-degree burglary.

Star Gazette, Elmira, N.Y., 11/11/04
When a Windham Township, Penn., homeowner woke up and discovered a burglar in his home, he acted quickly. The homeowner grabbed a gun, and, when confronted by the intruder, shot him. The wounded man fled, but was later found by police at a local hospital.

The Buffalo News, Buffalo, N.Y., 10/7/00
Buffalo, N.Y., merchant Gary Flading was in his Skyway Cleaners and Check Cashing business one Friday morning when a couple entered and feigned interest in cashing a check. Their true intentions became painfully apparent seconds later when the proprietor cautious not to be 'taken to the cleaners' figuratively, as well asked for their signatures. Rather than producing a pen, the man pulled an electric stun gun and zapped Flading's right hand. The ruffian suffered an even greater shock, however, when Flading pulled his own 'stun gun': a licensed revolver. The couple fled, but was caught by police a short time later.

[stevenco]

We don't need guns. I (whiteboy) lived in the Baily-Ferry neighborhood. I've never felt the need to own a gun for protection. They are a bad accident waiting to happen-just askin' for trouble. I got jumped once on Sweet St. around 2pm by a couple of misguided youths. Having a gun in that situation may have caused some problems. As it turned out, I just got a blindside hit in the jaw from behind and one of the punks hit his head on the curb and twitched a little, his buddy stood there stunned and I left. No need to report anything.

"...aint good for nuthin', but put a man six feet in a hole."

[avet]

but in the wrong hands, as so many are, the obvious destructive potential exists

Wanna talk about potential?

Think about it.

How many of you people think that if even one or two passengers (with "legal permits"), or armed marshalls, or airmed pilots, on the ill fated 911 flights, could have "easily" changed the course of history?

A handfull of uneducated, brainwashed, terrorists, took over complete control of four airplanes, full of law abiding "unarmed citizens" with ..."BOXCUTTERS" !

That small group of terriorists, with "BOXCUTTERS", KNEW that even though they were tottally outnumbered by the passangers, there was NOBODY on board "legally armed" to protect themselves. So, did the extremely strict "gun laws" protect us?
Or did this small group of "BOXCUTTER" weilders virtually "change the entire course of our world's history", plunging us into : massive amounts of deaths at the Twin Towers, multiple wars on multiple fronts, with continually rising death tolls, deficits/war costs our country can't keep up, and a nation totally divided?

I'd have to say the terrorists have acomplished their mission, armed with nothing more than a few BOXCUTTERS... because we are all law abiding - "unarmed" citizens, and were "ripe for the pickings".

I'd have given anything for even a few, "legally armed-trained" citizens, or pilots/marshals on those flights.

[stevenco]

Originally posted by avet
A handfull of uneducated, brainwashed, terrorists, took over complete control of four airplanes, full of law abiding "unarmed citizens" with ..."BOXCUTTERS" !......
"..

.......and the dish ran away with the spoon.

[avet]

They are a bad accident waiting to happen-just askin' for trouble.

Like the teenager that recently smashed, almost completly through a store front because she was talking on her cell phone?
Luckily, nobody was standing right there, or got hurt.

guns
boxcutters
cell phones
vehicles
etc.

Pick one. They all work.

Erie County has had some of "the strictest" gun laws in the nation for a long, long, long, time. Why are there shootings almost every single day in the news? Is it working?

[Deerhunter]

When you think of it, anyone can buy a shotgun, saw it off, and have a very powerful, lethal, concealable weapon. There are so many guns on the street because of lax prosecution. It is really quite a joke, and if I didn't see it firsthand, I wouldn't believe the leniency in sentencing for gun offenses. If the guy gets any time at all, it is a successful arrest/prosecution. I would love to see anyone caught possessing an illegal gun , get 1 yr. That would be great, and for a second offense, or where the gun was used in a crime, 2yrs. For a third offense 5, and after that 20. That would reduce the number of people carrying illegal guns on the street. It is only a dream though, they will never do it. Until the shootings creep into more affluent neighborhoods, you won't see it. It is largely a "not in my backyard" mentality.

[therising]

Deerhunter - thanks for the links, but, again, the NRA stuff I take w/ a grain of salt.

You showewd 2 Buffalo News articles in the past 5 years where law-abiding citizens protected themselves. During that same time, how many "accidents: happened? (i.e. kid finds daddy's gun in the drawer, shoots his friend), OR how many guns that are on the street in the hands of criminals were originally stolen from law-abiding citizens?

[LHardy]

posted by rural lady:
Have hunted for 30+ years and have had my pistol permit for 20+ years,and if they cut the Sheriff's patrol out here in the country, what do you think I'll do if there is an intruder?

This is the reason that a rural home will not be entered when someone is thought to be home. The impression is that all of us in the country/rural areas have guns. Guess what? We do!

[RagingBuffalo]

The bad part of guns comes in when the guy sells his guns, claims they were stolen, and they fall into the wrong hands. Or they genuinely do get stolen.

I'm not up to speed on the stats as to where the majority of illegal weapons come from in the U.S. It sounds as though Deerhunter believes the majority of unregistered weapons found on the street were stolen from owners or supposedly stolen from owners who had a license at one time? Is this correct?