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Thread: Ok Union Boys Justify extortion

  1. #1
    Unregistered Cgoodsp466's Avatar
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    Ok Union Boys Justify extortion

    This is whay i hate unions,a bunch of thugs who dont start a business but think that they should get the lions share. You people make me sick.

    Labor unions ask political backing for organizing law
    Chicago Play Video Video: What does the future hold? WRAL Raleigh CHICAGO (Reuters) U.S. labor unions, having helped Barack Obama win the presidency, entertain high hopes he will enact their agenda to bolster their negotiating power with employers and increase their numbers after decades of decline.

    Unions have "an unprecedented amount of leverage" after turning out white middle-class voters for Obama in battleground industrial states like Pennsylvania and Ohio that he won in Tuesday's election but had lost in the Democratic nominating primaries, said University of Illinois-Chicago labor expert Robert Bruno.

    "American workers won this election," said Anna Burger, chairman of the labor coalition "Change to Win" at a news conference this week in Washington. "The mandate has never been so overwhelming for a progressive economic agenda." {Wht the hell doe this mean?}

    A cornerstone of labor's agenda is passage of the Employee Free Choice Act that unions argue restores balance to its negotiations with employers, but is described as "Armageddon" by a leading business group.

    Burger said she expected the measure and other parts of the unions' agenda to be addressed in the first 100 days of the Obama administration, which takes office on January 20.

    Other labor leaders sought to dampen the notion they were owed something by the incoming administration.

    "That is not the way Obama works," said Bill Samuel, legislative director of the AFL-CIO, America's biggest labor organization.

    "We are part of the conversation about the economy right now in a way that we weren't when the Republicans were in charge ... we see the world in the same way (as Democratic leaders)," Samuel said.

    BATTLE EXPECTED OVER LABOR LEGISLATION

    A battle is shaping up in the U.S. Senate over the Employee Free Choice Act. Its two major provisions would let prospective members sign union cards instead of waiting to hold secret ballot elections to unionize workers at a company, and call for a government arbitrator if a newly created union and the employer did not reach a contract within 120 days.

    One-third of the time that a union succeeds in organizing a company's workers, it never reaches a contract with the employer, and the union often disbands at the company.

    Both labor and business say passage of the law could mean unionization rates will soar. Unions have arrested a decades-long decline and have roughly 13 million members, or just 7.5 percent of the nongovernmental work force. That is down sharply from the mid-1950s when U.S. union membership reached 36 percent of the labor force.

    Democrats Obama and Vice President-elect Joe Biden have both emphasized their support for the legislation.

    Their Republican opponent, John McCain, called the measure "a threat to democracy" and warned it would hurt small business and erode workers' rights to vote in secret on joining a union.

    Opponents say the law is unbalanced as written and will lead to workers being coerced into joining unions and permit arbitrators to undermine employers' control by setting wages, benefits and work rules.

    "This bill is Armageddon for the employer community," said Randy Johnson of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. "(It) can artificially drive up wages and create work rules that remove flexibility."

    "We'll have wage-led inflation for the first time ever in this country if this happens and I don't know if this economy can stand it," said William Adams, who helps employers plot strategy.

    Adams said unions could make unreasonable demands then wait for the arbitrator to split the difference with the employer's offer. Arbitrators can ignore outrageous demands, supporters say.

    The act was introduced five years ago and won approval in the U.S. House of Representatives in March 2007, but Republican opposition has prevented it from coming up for a vote in the Senate.

    The big question is if backers will have the 60 or more Senate votes to end an expected Republican-led filibuster. Democrats in Tuesday's election boosted their majority in the 100-seat chamber to at least 57, but trail in at least three undecided races.

    Also on the union wish list is a proposed $100 billion infrastructure rebuilding program the Laborers' union said would create more than 1 million jobs.

    Construction jobs have been particularly hard-hit in the current downturn, losing 657,000 jobs since the start of 2007. Overall, the U.S. economy has lost 1.2 million jobs this year -- many of them union jobs in autos and other industries -- including the 240,000 drop in October payrolls reported on Friday.


    Can we all say Free Cheese for the slackers.

  2. #2
    Member Mr. Lackawanna's Avatar
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    SEIU Push

    It appears that the SEIU in their zeal to get the Employee Free Choice Act passed will target any politician that will not vote for this bill. What this bill wants to change for now is that their will be no more secret voting to accept an Union. Such as voting in a both or secret ballot, as would on any normal election day.

    From my own experience as a union member this act will only intimate workers wanting to vote against the Employee Free Choice Act.

    Under this bill how can a person who wants to vote against having a union representing them, without having any fear for their safety? Who's interest does the SEIU represent the new workers or the addition of new monies to the SEIU treasury? Who will count the votes the SEIU?

    Just look at what the SEIU plans to do with the knowledge on how their representatives voted. Do you think the politicians will be free of intimation?

    What is next if the Employee Free Choice Act is passed. Open voting during the general elections? Don't bet against this happing, remember we are now in a period of political change.
    Last edited by Mr. Lackawanna; February 6th, 2009 at 11:59 AM. Reason: edit
    Russia didn't make me vote for Trump, Hillary did.

  3. #3
    Member Mr. Lackawanna's Avatar
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    Employee Free Choice Act

    An American Tragedy, the Employee Free Choice Act

    Facing declining membership, union officials have turned to a highly questionable practice of organizing new members through a process called "card check." With card checks, paid union organizers try to persuade workers to sign cards saying that they favor union representation. This persuasion is documented as frequently including deception, coercion, and harassing visits to workers' homes.

    Under current law, as soon as more than 50 percent of the workers in an appropriate bargaining (work) unit sign a union authorization card, the employer can choose to recognize the union as the representative of 100 percent of the workers if the employer believes it reflects actual sentiment of the employees (even though not a single employee has actually been able to cast a personal, private vote).

    The bill, known as the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA) represents one of the most fundamental and sweeping changes in labor laws in the United States. A principal provision of the bill is a change in the way unions are certified.

    Currently, unions wishing to represent workers have to obtain signatures from 30% of workers. Once this is achieved, the National Labor Relations Board oversees a secret-ballot vote to certify the union. The process allows the union and employer to make their case. To protect the integrity of the process, there are a host of penalties the NLRB can impose for improper behavior. The union is certified if a majority of workers vote in favor.

    Supporters of EFCA, including most major unions and a majority of congressional Democrats, want to change this process. Specifically, EFCA would automatically certify unions without a secret-ballot vote if 50% plus one sign union cards in the first step, referred to as card check. This change obviously creates a more confrontational system for certification, since it eliminates the requirement for anonymous and private voting.

    I still feel if the Employee Free Choice Act is passed. Open voting will be the way we will vote (no more secret ballot) during the general elections? Don't bet against this happing, remember we are now in a period of political change.

    I can't understand how any union could back open voting it goes against our American principals. I have sent an email to my local Congressman and my 2 New York State Senators expressing my position on this pending bill. Even though I think my email will be stored in the waste paper basket.
    Russia didn't make me vote for Trump, Hillary did.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Lackawanna View Post
    An American Tragedy, the Employee Free Choice Act

    Facing declining membership, union officials have turned to a highly questionable practice of organizing new members through a process called "card check." With card checks, paid union organizers try to persuade workers to sign cards saying that they favor union representation. This persuasion is documented as frequently including deception, coercion, and harassing visits to workers' homes.

    Under current law, as soon as more than 50 percent of the workers in an appropriate bargaining (work) unit sign a union authorization card, the employer can choose to recognize the union as the representative of 100 percent of the workers if the employer believes it reflects actual sentiment of the employees (even though not a single employee has actually been able to cast a personal, private vote).

    The bill, known as the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA) represents one of the most fundamental and sweeping changes in labor laws in the United States. A principal provision of the bill is a change in the way unions are certified.

    Currently, unions wishing to represent workers have to obtain signatures from 30% of workers. Once this is achieved, the National Labor Relations Board oversees a secret-ballot vote to certify the union. The process allows the union and employer to make their case. To protect the integrity of the process, there are a host of penalties the NLRB can impose for improper behavior. The union is certified if a majority of workers vote in favor.

    Supporters of EFCA, including most major unions and a majority of congressional Democrats, want to change this process. Specifically, EFCA would automatically certify unions without a secret-ballot vote if 50% plus one sign union cards in the first step, referred to as card check. This change obviously creates a more confrontational system for certification, since it eliminates the requirement for anonymous and private voting.

    I still feel if the Employee Free Choice Act is passed. Open voting will be the way we will vote (no more secret ballot) during the general elections? Don't bet against this happing, remember we are now in a period of political change.

    I can't understand how any union could back open voting it goes against our American principals. I have sent an email to my local Congressman and my 2 New York State Senators expressing my position on this pending bill. Even though I think my email will be stored in the waste paper basket.
    Haven't we all learned by now, UNIONS aren't out for the "common man" their out for their own interest. I'd like to know how much a UNION admin or head like the moron who runs the UAW get's paid!
    "I know you guys enjoy reading my stuff because it all makes sense. "

    Dumbest post ever! Thanks for the laugh PO!

  5. #5
    Unregistered Cgoodsp466's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Lackawanna View Post
    An American Tragedy, the Employee Free Choice Act

    Facing declining membership, union officials have turned to a highly questionable practice of organizing new members through a process called "card check." With card checks, paid union organizers try to persuade workers to sign cards saying that they favor union representation. This persuasion is documented as frequently including deception, coercion, and harassing visits to workers' homes.

    Under current law, as soon as more than 50 percent of the workers in an appropriate bargaining (work) unit sign a union authorization card, the employer can choose to recognize the union as the representative of 100 percent of the workers if the employer believes it reflects actual sentiment of the employees (even though not a single employee has actually been able to cast a personal, private vote).

    The bill, known as the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA) represents one of the most fundamental and sweeping changes in labor laws in the United States. A principal provision of the bill is a change in the way unions are certified.

    Currently, unions wishing to represent workers have to obtain signatures from 30% of workers. Once this is achieved, the National Labor Relations Board oversees a secret-ballot vote to certify the union. The process allows the union and employer to make their case. To protect the integrity of the process, there are a host of penalties the NLRB can impose for improper behavior. The union is certified if a majority of workers vote in favor.

    Supporters of EFCA, including most major unions and a majority of congressional Democrats, want to change this process. Specifically, EFCA would automatically certify unions without a secret-ballot vote if 50% plus one sign union cards in the first step, referred to as card check. This change obviously creates a more confrontational system for certification, since it eliminates the requirement for anonymous and private voting.

    I still feel if the Employee Free Choice Act is passed. Open voting will be the way we will vote (no more secret ballot) during the general elections? Don't bet against this happing, remember we are now in a period of political change.

    I can't understand how any union could back open voting it goes against our American principals. I have sent an email to my local Congressman and my 2 New York State Senators expressing my position on this pending bill. Even though I think my email will be stored in the waste paper basket.
    what american Principles. The new national anthem is camp town races. We are all Fd get used to it. I make it and they say i have to share it. Hey share this you Nazi Bastards.

  6. #6
    Member Eat My Gun's Avatar
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    Orwellian Doublespeak

    Kinda interesting how they call it the "Employee Free Choice Act" when it's anything but...

    Then again, calling it the "Union Thug Intimidation Act" probably wouldn't sell. Since few, if any, of our elected representatives read the details of the laws they vote on, the title of the act has to be it's selling point. Who would ever oppose free choice?


    "I won't live by rules that make no sense to me." - Evan Tanner 1971-2008

    Transfixus sed non Mortuus

  7. #7
    Member raoul duke's Avatar
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    DOWN WIT UNIONS!!!! You people are too dumb to be middle class anyways.
    One beautiful thing about having a government of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations is that every disaster is measured in terms of economic loss. It's sort of like getting your arm sheared off in a car accident and thinking, "Damn, now it'll take longer to fold the laundry" as blood spurts from your arteries. - The Rude Pundit

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    Member Eat My Gun's Avatar
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    What's dumb is the complete overhaul of the unionization process.

    The EFCA is ripe for abuse.

    What's wrong with the decades old practice of the NLRB overseeing secret ballot elections to certify a union?


    "I won't live by rules that make no sense to me." - Evan Tanner 1971-2008

    Transfixus sed non Mortuus

  9. #9
    Member raoul duke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eat My Gun View Post
    What's dumb is the complete overhaul of the unionization process.

    The EFCA is ripe for abuse.
    How so? Really. I'm pretty familiar with the proposed law (as it stands today) and I see some problems especially in unions run by entrenched and corrupt local leadership (see: Local 91 in Niagara Falls). But "ripe for abuse"? I'm not seeing it. A worker wants to join a union, s/he doesn't have to endure pressure (often threats, veiled and some not so) from management. All they gotta do is decide whether to sign a card. If enough people sign the card, the employer has to enter into contract negotiations with the workers. There is nuance to the bill with regards to some processes, but any law is liable to be abused and nothing in this one sticks out as anything out of the ordinary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eat My Gun View Post
    What's wrong with the decades old practice of the NLRB overseeing secret ballot elections to certify a union?
    It doesn't work. It grants employers a lot of lee-way to use coercive and illegal means to ward off organization.
    Last edited by raoul duke; March 8th, 2009 at 09:46 PM.
    One beautiful thing about having a government of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations is that every disaster is measured in terms of economic loss. It's sort of like getting your arm sheared off in a car accident and thinking, "Damn, now it'll take longer to fold the laundry" as blood spurts from your arteries. - The Rude Pundit

  10. #10
    Member FMD's Avatar
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    Like Walmart?

    In some ways, unions are good, and in some ways unions are bad. We as a people, instead of just relying on our over paid 'elected' officials, DO have some responsibility on our own help others understand.

    In my opinion, on one hand Unionized labor force could be a good thing, given most our jobs are non union.

    But on the flip side it could also be VERY bad for our country if say, 10 years down the line 75% of all businesses are unionized. This could, (its a stretch) act as a vehical to drive wages DOWN not up.

    Dont forget, we went into this world wide depression as the Number 1 consumer, when the world comes out of this depression the Number 1, and NUmber 2 consumers will be China, and India. Making the US an exporter of SOMETHING. But in order for the US to become competitive on the world market, either its labor costs have to drop significantly, or the dollar has to be next to worthless, two very bad things which will pretty much put a life as we know it, to an end.
    Willful ignorance is the downfall of every major empire in history.

    "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." - Mao, 1938

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    Quote Originally Posted by FMD View Post

    But on the flip side it could also be VERY bad for our country if say, 10 years down the line 75% of all businesses are unionized. This could, (its a stretch) act as a vehical to drive wages DOWN not up.
    Look at Spain where they pretty much have a nationalized UNION labor force that is SO coslty that most of the work, like their massive bridge they completed 2 years ago, was done by GERMANS!!

    I have no problem with the workers themselves, it's the numerous over paid, under worked admins that make unions way to costly! One thing i was glad to find out was that the APD union officials are volunteers and not paid!
    "I know you guys enjoy reading my stuff because it all makes sense. "

    Dumbest post ever! Thanks for the laugh PO!

  12. #12
    Member Eat My Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raoul duke View Post
    But "ripe for abuse"? I'm not seeing it. A worker wants to join a union, s/he doesn't have to endure pressure (often threats, veiled and some not so) from management. All they gotta do is decide whether to sign a card. If enough people sign the card, the employer has to enter into contract negotiations with the workers. There is nuance to the bill with regards to some processes, but any law is liable to be abused and nothing in this one sticks out as anything out of the ordinary.
    I gotta disagree with you on this.

    If signing a card isn't an issue, why not leave the law as is, where only 30% must sign to authorize a secret ballot administered by an IMPARTIAL third party, namely the NLRB?

    If management is able to ward off organization by exerting pressure against the authorization of a secret ballot, how does the EFCA prevent them from exerting pressure against the signing of a unionization card?

    The provision for binding arbitration within 120 days is problematic for me as well. The timeline alone is way too short when you take into account the complexity of the negotiations process, especially when it's the first time both sides come to the table.

    I believe the secret ballot is the best protection against coercion by both the employer and the union.


    "I won't live by rules that make no sense to me." - Evan Tanner 1971-2008

    Transfixus sed non Mortuus

  13. #13
    Member Mr. Lackawanna's Avatar
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    Secret Ballot?

    The issue is the ending of the secret ballot.

    You can like or dislike unions. That is your option. Showing how you fell about a union by voting for or against the union should only be done by a secret ballot. Why should it be any different than voting for the politician of your choice.
    Russia didn't make me vote for Trump, Hillary did.

  14. #14
    Member BorderBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Lackawanna View Post
    The issue is the ending of the secret ballot.

    You can like or dislike unions. That is your option. Showing how you fell about a union by voting for or against the union should only be done by a secret ballot. Why should it be any different than voting for the politician of your choice.
    Actually I don't believe that is the case. As someone who has participated in a representational election, they cost money. The theory behind this law is by signing a union card (which is something of a misnomer, we don't have cards, but use forms for payroll deduction of dues) it saves the cost of a formal election. 100 employees, upon signature of the 51st card, we have union representation. Bring on contract talks!!

    That said we will never reach agreement on what "could" happen, on both sides, with respect to coercion for or against unionization. You say Local 91, I say Walmart. It is a battle with no winners.


    b.b.
    (who actually believes in the sanctity of the secret ballot, btw)

  15. #15
    Member Save Us's Avatar
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    We all know how well union membership has helped WNY,,

    We have had teachers on this thread express their desires to disagree with union policies but alas could not for fear of retribution.

    The next time Roul needs work done on his house it should be done by 4-5 union guys , and he might want to pick up the nails and spikes in his driveway before he calls the non union guys to do the job less expensively..

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