The Taylor Law and how it kills taxpayers....

[Curmudgeon]

And.... you are still basing your arguments on the statement that the Taylor law handcuffs municipalities in dealing with labor because it grants unions binding arbitration.

Ah, no....

The Taylor Law handcuffs municipalities in dealing with labor because it specifies that public-sector union contracts remain in effect until a new contract supercedes it. This means that the union will never get a deal worse then the one before it, no matter how the economic conditions change over time. That some subset of unionized employees get manditory arbiration is just an added insult.

Please try to improve your reading comprehension skills.

[biker]

Until the law changes (right after the Assembly goes Republican or Hell freezes over, take yer pick) the compromise between overly generous settlements and a destitute City is to keep the old contract in effect for decades.

Citymouse--you said you hadn't gotten a raise in five years.

How long will it take the average City wage to equal the average wage of City residents?

Sorry Bud, I think it's a fair question absent two tier wages or such.

And don't give me something about the good old days when a guy with a grade school education could afford a new car every three years, a house and a boat.

Talk to me about what a City with an average wage of $18k a year can afford.

[Deerhunter]

keeps contracts intact. Certain aspects do sunset with an expired contract. Contract language has specific stipulations. As far as binding arbitration, what are workers to do when a munincipality refuses to negotiate, even when it is suggested that concessions will be talked about ? That has occurred, in this very city. Clearly violating bargaining in good faith measures. As far as Binding Arb, and the BPD, the last 2 contracts were NEGOTIATED, no mediators, just the workforce and managment. In the contract prior to this, if a newly hired BPD member(after June 2000) wanted to get the Blue Cross/ Blue Shield, he had to pay about 400 a month. That pushed people into Community Blue and Ind Health, both cheaper, capped, plans. Saving the city money. Recently, the City forced us into one Health Provider. Pension costs weren't an issue because the City didn't pay anything, because the fund/market, was doing so well. That City managers didn't budget for tough times down the road, isn't the fault of the workforce. If people want to blame the Unions, let them. That is their opinion, so be it. Doesn't make any difference to me. I blame poor management, big deal, again, it doesn't change anything. I just go to work. BTW,What is the education level of the city resident who averages 18k ?

[biker]

Originally posted by Deerhunter
BTW,What is the education level of the city resident who averages 18k ?

Great point. I didn't mention education (the most important variable in most peoples' lifetime incomes) because it ends up being a distraction.

The other union boys on this MB think "college boys" get too much recognintion for their educational attainments.

Just another ploy to hold down the sainted, mythical working man.

[citymouse]

If a contract expires, yes, the taylor law provides that it's provisions stay at the point of the last negotiated agreement.
With inflation and the cost of living increasing it actually does mean the workers are getting less then was bargined for at the time. That would be contrary to your statment of never getting a deal worse then the one before it.
Through negotiations we can easiley get a worse deal as well.
Over all we actually have gotten a worse deal, not as bad as you would like but worse than the previous one. I'll get in to specifics if you would like.
Show me where, though, in private industry, where there is collective bargining, that the same thing does not occur. The auto industry? Steel? how about the Rail roads? UPS?
In each and every one the existing contract remains in effect untill a new one is negotiated with the affected bargining unit.
Name one that dosen't.
You can't because they are non-existent.
If you are going to argue present all the facts not just the ones that fit your anti-labor agenda.
Half truths are the same as lies, only presented nicer.
But it does weaken your credibility.

[citymouse]

As far as getting the same as the average wage earner in Buffalo, get real.
There are few jobs in the city that make more than minimum, so it is a loaded question.
You are one of the merger fans, right?
What is the average yearly income for Erie County? Where are we on that scale?
It would be hard to average out a city worker anyway.
Seasonal make far less than 18 and have no benies.
Police fire and teachers make more than your average blue and white collar people.
Then you can't count all the administrators, non-agreement people, city lawyers and the like because thier income far exceeds most union guys as well.
I would say the average city worker who is union and

[biker]

Originally posted by citymouse

I would say the average city worker who is union and

Please finish your post. I am interested.

[biker]

Originally posted by citymouse
As far as getting the same as the average wage earner in Buffalo, get real.
There are few jobs in the city that make more than minimum, so it is a loaded question.

Are you kidding?

All those fat cat business bosses have their offices downtown.

All the thievin lawyers have their offices downtown.

All the bank headquarters are downtown.

Whaddya kiddin me---the biggest jobs in the County are downtown.

[Son of Liberty]

Originally posted by Linda_D
Excel response, citymouse. There are a lot of anti-union posters here who don't know what they're talking about.

Yeah right, we don't have to know what we're talking about, we can see it by what is happening to this city, county and state. I wish I had taxpayers paying for my cosmetic surgery or floating my pension when Wall Street investments come up short.

It's time for this state to take a big, fat enema and wash all the excess crap...politicians, unions and parasites right out of here.

Let's start fresh...that nice clean, non-bloated feeling!

[citymouse]

I got your enima right here.
The problem with all you anti union hacks is you
A. have no sense of what organized labor has done for this country and for you at your current place of emplyment.
B. Are to young to remember whem we had good quality unon jobs in Buffalo, and you could have easily obtained one.
You feel that because there are still some people here that have these quality jobs and your not one of them, then it's wrong and they are harming the area economy and in turn then screwing you.
If you have a job that pays less and dosen't have the quality benefits that a union job has then figure it out. The business community is the one that is screwing you.
They have been doing it for years and blaming us.
I think it is turning around.
Peolple are starting to realize the demise of the economy is a result of not having strong labor organization, not the other way around and politicians are proudly taking labor support and inviting them to the table to find solutions. They will continue to do so and things will be bettter for it.

[biker]

Why shouldn't politicians and labor sit together at the same table.

The defense table.

Together, they are guilty of bringing this area to its knees.

Management decided what they were going to do years ago.

They left.

Westinghouse, Republic, Litton, Bell, LTV, Bethlehem.

I will agree with you on one thing: public union jobs are among the choicest left. You'd have been laughed at years ago if you had said that.

The problem is, what are you going to do when the goose----those dumb enough to have stayed---that lays the golden eggs decides we've had enough and leave?

[citymouse]

Where did they go?
China, Krea Tiwan, Mexico, India and so on.
That is where they went.
Thank you free trade and wto all those wonderful things that your goverment, ever since Bonzo got elected in 1980 cheerfully did to break labor in this country on behalf of thier wealthy pals.
It doesen't matter if it was Buffalo or any where else these people are the crminals.
They also did a great job of spinning the working man as the demon. Your point of view proves that.
If free trade is such great thing how come all the jobs from NFTA went only to Mexico and not to Canada, where the prvaling wage is some what equal to ours. Oh and have you heard? Now that Workers in Mexico are starting to organize they are talking about extending NAFTA to include the poorer countries of central America so they can exploit that cheap labor.
Your picking the wrong side of your table for the wrong people. I suggest you stop reciting retoric , stop getting all your busniess and labor views from Warren Buffet and Rupert Murdoch, two of the Richest men in the world, and learn to think for yourself and see the forest for the trees.

[biker]

Originally posted by citymouse

Your picking the wrong side of your table for the wrong people. I suggest you stop reciting retoric , stop getting all your busniess and labor views from Warren Buffet and Rupert Murdoch, two of the Richest men in the world, and learn to think for yourself and see the forest for the trees.

All the rhetoric was contained at the beginning of your post.

I think for myself.

I think that guys like you led to the following fact of life: steel employment is down 75% from where it was thirty years ago.

Steel manufacturing is one of your favorite whines.

Let's rock.

[Curmudgeon]

Where did they go?
China, Krea Tiwan, Mexico, India and so on.
That is where they went.

Hmmmm... If that were the case, WNY would be no worse off than any other area in the USA. That doesn't seem to be the case, does it? Are our kids moving to Mexico City? NO! They're moving to other areas in the USA where they DON"T HAVE silly protectionist leeches of local government. Like the Carolinas, Florida, Arizona, etc...

Stop trying to blame brown people in other countries for YOUR feeding at the trough. Nobody's buying it, especially the young people who are fleeing WNY daily.......

[biker]

Come on, Chickenmouse.

I've been waiting for this for the past few days.

Don't go invisible again.

I've waited two hours for you to respond.

Like I said.

Let's rock.