The Taylor Law and how it kills taxpayers....

[Curmudgeon]

I see my anti labor friend has returned.
Tell me, Oh Great and All Knowing, why the demise of the working classstandard of living and quality of life and the exportation of jobs has increased as the number of union workers decreased?
Back when this country made it's own steel and the majority of it's automobiles and electronic products one bread winner could support a family.
In your perfect world that is not the case.
Show me one place in this great republican controlled nation of ours where the average working man can do so today.

Excellent class-warfare tirade.... There's lots of answers, but you already know them so,

Again... I'll ask this question:

Unfortunately, it's youself and the learned garbageman that are actively contributing to WNY's demise by supporting the same old populist/command-economy practices that have brought WNY to the state it's in today. If it hasn't worked in 30 years, what makes you think it's going to suddenly work now?

[citymouse]

Don't dodge the question.
My answer to your question is because we stopped manufacturing in this country of things like steel and most everything else.
By allowing our manufacturing base to go over seas we weakend our economy.
No more good paying union jobs. What good are cheaper goods if no one can afford to buy them? How is buying imports helping to strengthen our economy?
How are you and more so your children and grand chikdren going to benfit from record trade deficits?

[Riven37]

Originally posted by biker
For many years, unions were not allowed in the public sector. The fear was that there would be no counter-vailing force to the very intense interest on the part of the union membership.

With whom were they going to negotiate? Elected officials? In our area, pro-government, pro-union liberal activists? Who was looking out for the taxpayers interests in those negotiating sessions?

The Taylor Law was put in place to try and put some structural safeguards in place.

We need only look at the record to see where that has taken us.

Biker, I suggest you read the Taylor laws because this law is a contract with the labor unions in mind. since 1967 when it was appoted it has been reviewed, revised, admended over and over to accomindate the unions in this state. No I'm sorry, the taylor law needs to die a slow peacful death for good.

Should the county go insolvent then the unions would die as well which in my opinion would be the best progress that could ever happen in this area. As time change and our lives change with those changes its the unions who never change, they continue to think like it is 1955....nope its time for major change !

[citymouse]

Originally posted by biker
You wouldn't believe him if he told you.

Waste of time.

O.K. your probably right. So you tell me, I'll beleive you.

[citymouse]

Originally posted by Riven37
This Taylor Law has done one thing for this area...it has placed handcuffs on Eire and Niagara County when it comes to the unions.....I for one want to see this Taylor Law changed. If not changed I like to see it go away....in the trash cann....its nothing but trash anyways.

For the last what, 30 years this Taylor Law has served no one but the unions in this area and has sucked us residents dry. Yes, sucked the pennies right out of our pockets and if we don't place presure on albany to get this law changed it will continue to suck us dry....because the unions is never change and will keep aking for those golden platers of give-me's or else contracts.

You still don't get it do you? Or you just refuse to see the truth.
Even if you removed the Taylor law from the mix. (and they never will because it protects taxpayers more thaen hurts them)
it would not reduce your taxes or solve this areas economic woes.
In fact I think you will see because of the current administration's budget mess on the national level the rest of the working class in this country will be joining us shortly.

[moadib]

I have to agree w/criticisms of the Taylor Law

There is no counter balance

Thats why I think that the best revisement is that there can be no mandatory arbitration:

-where the budget is in deficit
-where union members are at or above the national or state average.
-the priority should be given to the quality and the cost efficiency of the service being provided.

The Taylor Law just mandates that taxes will always be at the mandatory maximum without regard for other factors

No more quid pro quo on productivity improves, thats just the cost of doing business.

[citymouse]

DUH!!
Are you guy's that thick. The Taylor law does not give binding arbitration rights to all unions. How many times do you have to hear it.
THE-TAYLOR-LAW-DOES-NOT-GRANT-BINDING-ARBITRATION-TO-ALL-MUNICIPLE-UNIONS.
In Buffalo only police and fire are given those rights. The majority of city and county workers do not have it.
GET IT?
you are basing your argument against this law on the right of binding arbitration and most workers are not affected by it.
Blows you right out of the water.

[Curmudgeon]

Even if you removed the Taylor law from the mix. (and they never will because it protects taxpayers more thaen hurts them)

You are a complete contradiction.

You say on the one hand that it "helps taxpayers". But we see that the rest of the country seems to do a lot better without it.

THEN, you come here and defend this law to the death?

So what is it? A great law for the unions to get more money, or something good for the taxpayer? It can't be both, that's for sure......

[citymouse]

It hasn't got me any more money.
I haven't gotten a raise in five years. My medical benifits are reduced.
It keeps me from striking.
It's not that I defend the law, I just think your all crazy to blame it for all your high tax problem.
As a citizen I like the fact that the cops and firemen can't strike.
Explain my contridiction.

[citymouse]

Where do I say it is a great way for unions to get more money? Those are your words not mine.
We have been arguing this point for almost two years and you start to lose the argument you start confusing the issue or attacking me personally.
Stick to the facts. You haven't so far.

[moadib]

There is a ring of truth that unions are not the entire problem

Does anyone remember 1999 during the dot com BOOM increasing property values, increasing employment...all leading to rising state revenues.

So what did NYS do with those rising revenues?

Did they pay off the bonds that finance the state deficit? NO
Did they submit a balanced budget? NO
Did they use it to bring poor schools up to standard? NO
Did they use it to update infrastructure: Roads, Bridges, Rail, etc?
Did they lower taxes and fees? NO
Did they use it to trade union negoitations for productivity improvements at hospitals, fire, police, etc? NO

What did they do? THEY RAISED THE HEALTH AND PENSION BENEFITS FOR CURRENT CIVIL SERVICE EMPLOYEES AND RETIRED CIVIL SERVICE RETIREES.

THUS PLACING THE STATE AND EVERY COUNTY AND MUNICIPALITY INTO NEAR BANKRUPTCY WHEN THOSE DOT.COM RELATED REVENUES COLLAPSED!

SO ITS FAIR TO BLAME OUR POLITICIANS AND OUR UNIONS TOGETHER! THERE IS NO SINGLE EVIL TO POINT A FINGER AT!

THATS WHY WE MUST DEMAND TO VOTE ON MUNICIPAL AND COUNTY BUDGETS!

[Curmudgeon]

It's not that I defend the law, I just think your all crazy to blame it for all your high tax problem.

What!?!?!?

You defend this law every time someone here points out how stupid it is!!!!

Please!!!

[biker]

Curm:

Phrase your reply to the level of the objective:

"Puh-leeze!"

[citymouse]

Originally posted by Curmudgeon
You are a complete contradiction.

You say on the one hand that it "helps taxpayers". But we see that the rest of the country seems to do a lot better without it.

THEN, you come here and defend this law to the death?

So what is it? A great law for the unions to get more money, or something good for the taxpayer? It can't be both, that's for sure......

Again, where are the condridictions in what I say?
Where have I ever saidthat it is a "great law for unions to get more money"?

You always make these statements but can't explain or back them up.
It is mindless retoric with no basis in fact.
Save the BS for those that will fall for it.

[citymouse]

And.... you are still basing your arguments on the statement that the Taylor law handcuffs municipalities in dealing with labor because it grants unions binding arbitration.
Yet you know that is not the case.
Basing an opinion on an untruth is no way to back up an argument.
It only shows your lack of knowledge about the Taylor Law and what it's intent is.