Who does Ruffino think he's fooling?

[therising]

Tell me if I'm understanding this correctly...

Board Members, as part-timers, have the option of, either, receiving benefits, or, receiving a buyout. Correct?

Amatura is the only only one who elects to take the benefits, valued at $13,400, while the other members opt to take the buyout, valued at approximately half that. Correct?

Amatura claims that he wants to save the taxpayers money, by doing away with the benefit the others receive ($6,000), but he's NOT proposing to do away with the benefit that he receives (valued at twice that.) Is that also correct?

If I have my facts correct, then can someone please point out to me, how this is NOT an incredibly disingenuous move on Amatura's part? And, if he's so interested in saving money, who doesn't he just offer a resolution that would remove the preposterous idea of giving part-timers health insurance??

He wants to continue to receive his (more expensive) perk, while preventing the others from receiving their's?

[Wag]

Tell me if I'm understanding this correctly...

Board Members, as part-timers, have the option of, either, receiving benefits, or, receiving a buyout. Correct?

Amatura is the only only one who elects to take the benefits, valued at $13,400, while the other members opt to take the buyout, valued at approximately half that. Correct?

Amatura claims that he wants to save the taxpayers money, by doing away with the benefit the others receive ($6,000), but he's NOT proposing to do away with the benefit that he receives (valued at twice that.) Is that also correct?

If I have my facts correct, then can someone please point out to me, how this is NOT an incredibly disingenuous move on Amatura's part? And, if he's so interested in saving money, who doesn't he just offer a resolution that would remove the preposterous idea of giving part-timers health insurance??

He wants to continue to receive his (more expensive) perk, while preventing the others from receiving their's?

It is not correct. The part time elected officials were never given the option to take the buyout. Nor did they pass an amendment to approve a buyout option for themselves.

That's why I asked if it was legal and if they shouldn't be made to give the money back.

The other board members are trying to make Amatura's move seem disengenuous by clouding and avoiding the real issue.

[Foot Fungus]

Originally Posted by pudge

There was never any resolution or contract approved that allowed elected officials to get insurance buyouts; just resolution approval for elected officials to take the town provided insurance.

I think I'm going to go to the meeting on Monday and ask for my $6700 too. There's no resolution that says that I can't get it, so I must be able to.

While I'm at it, I'll ask for my new SUV. There's no resolution that says that I can or can't have that either.

I wonder what else I could have for free?

Originally Posted by therising

If I have my facts correct, then can someone please point out to me, how this is NOT an incredibly disingenuous move on Amatura's part? And, if he's so interested in saving money, who doesn't he just offer a resolution that would remove the preposterous idea of giving part-timers health insurance??

At least from the looks of it, Danny A is taking what he was allowed to take by what was written. If there's a resolution or contract that says that all can take the $6700 buyout, then they should produce it.

If not, it needs to be known who approved these buyouts. That's a lot of scratch over the years.

Although, I have to agree, full boat insurance for a part time "public servant" is ridiculous, that needs to go too.

These are the things that keep this area bleeding people and jobs.

Getting rid of these things is a good first step, where can we go next?

Rising, you have to admit, if he hadn't brought this up, it would continue, wouldn't it? Was anyone receiving this buyout going to stop it? I doubt it. I really don't care how it happens, it just needs to get done and if no one can produce any documentation as to why these buyouts occurred and that they were in fact legal, it needs to be repaid to the taxpayers and the responsible party for allowing this needs to be given the heave ho.

___________________________________

"I have some of the more experienced people in the legislature working for me. That's why my monetary situation is different." - State Senator Dale "Mr. Pickle" Volker when asked about cutting his office expenses.

"It's a perfect example of you need to get out and vote because all your votes count".
Mark Montour- Democratic, Republican, Independence, Conservative and Working Families parties candidate for Lancaster Town Justice

"I don't think it was luck" -Donna Stempniak, unopposed candidate for Lancaster Town Council on winning re-election.

“What these towns are about to do, if they have their way, is kill the goose that laid the golden egg” -Victor Martucci, vice president of Marrano Marc/Equity in response to local towns opposing the 339-y condo law.

[therising]

Rising, you have to admit, if he hadn't brought this up, it would continue, wouldn't it? Was anyone receiving this buyout going to stop it? I doubt it. I really don't care how it happens, it just needs to get done and if no one can produce any documentation as to why these buyouts occurred and that they were in fact legal, it needs to be repaid to the taxpayers and the responsible party for allowing this needs to be given the heave ho.

I dunno, we'll have to see how this plays out.

It's almost hard to believe (although no impossible,) that this has been going on for years, without ever having been officially approved.

Maybe I'm the one being disingenuous when I say this, but I wonder whether or not he would have pointed this out, had been choosing the buyout over the benefits all along.

[Foot Fungus]

Originally Posted by therising

It's almost hard to believe (although no impossible,) that this has been going on for years, without ever having been officially approved.

So far that is the way it seems. Maybe more will be forthcoming at Monday's Town Board meeting. Right now it looks like a bastardization of contract workers rules. Don't forget, not long ago a vehicle was purchased without resolution as it should have been and the explanation was that it was buried in a line of the budget. Things have a way of happening around here. The Colecraft building fiasco is another example of below the radar dealings that have cost one hell of a large chunk of other people's money.

Maybe I'm the one being disingenuous when I say this, but I wonder whether or not he would have pointed this out, had been choosing the buyout over the benefits all along.

I don't think it's disingenuous at all. It's the disrespect that we all feel toward government in New York State. When something seems shady, people are going to jump on it. Looking at the state of the state, we have good reason to question it. When you look at the bennies and patronage in NYS, do you wonder why we are in the sinking ship that we're in? It's a great example of why they fight so hard to keep the offices they hold.

Personally, I could care less of Danny A's motivation, as long as it leads to a result that benefits the taxpayer and not the "public servants". They've had their day (and for a lot of the retired ones, their days are very sunny in Florida and Arizona while we keep paying handsomely for their lifestyle).

I dunno, we'll have to see how this plays out.

Yes we will. But if it turns out that this was something that should not have been done, someone needs to be held responsible.

___________________________________

"I have some of the more experienced people in the legislature working for me. That's why my monetary situation is different." - State Senator Dale "Mr. Pickle" Volker when asked about cutting his office expenses.

"It's a perfect example of you need to get out and vote because all your votes count".
Mark Montour- Democratic, Republican, Independence, Conservative and Working Families parties candidate for Lancaster Town Justice

"I don't think it was luck" -Donna Stempniak, unopposed candidate for Lancaster Town Council on winning re-election.

“What these towns are about to do, if they have their way, is kill the goose that laid the golden egg” -Victor Martucci, vice president of Marrano Marc/Equity in response to local towns opposing the 339-y condo law.

[pudge]

I dunno, we'll have to see how this plays out.

It's almost hard to believe (although no impossible,) that this has been going on for years, without ever having been officially approved.

Maybe I'm the one being disingenuous when I say this, but I wonder whether or not he would have pointed this out, had been choosing the buyout over the benefits all along.

Politics is what is disingenuous!

The insurance buyout practice has been going on since 1996 - just coincidently the year Giza became Supervisor and the Dems got back into power.

When Amatura was elected to his first term, he was advised of the buyout option and told to take it. So he did until he found out there was no legal document (resolution) that entitled him to the double-dipping.

As the town provides a great health care program that includes dental and vision coverage, he opted to take that. Yes it does cost the town more. However, he did not have an outside insurance package that was covered by the public sector like two council members who get coverage from the school system and a Supervisor that gets health care paid for by the Boy's Club, public sector pensions that are as good as the town's.

Now Stempniak takes a burn to Amatura's resolution proposal and says "it doesn't go far enough, lets take coverage away from all part-time elected officals." Translation: "We're going to burn your ass as well."

Well rising, guess what? Yipee, they are all losers and taxpayers are the winners. Why didn't Stempniak bring this up before? Did she wait until she retires and got her $54,000 retirement package?

Stempniak said Amatura's proposal didn't go far enough, and neither does her's. No town elected official should be entitled to a health insurance buyout if they have outside coverage. Had Amatura not had the guts to get the ball rolling they all would have continued scamming us taxpayers.

But if you think things are bad here, Cheektowaga still pays premiums for liftime health benefits for their part-time elected officials.

[Foot Fungus]

I just saw a copy of the agenda for Monday's Town Board meeting and was surprised to see that the resolution to end the health insurance buyouts that was tabled at the last meeting is not on the agenda. Has this been banished already? I was talking to someone this week that said the buyout payment is split and comes twice a year. Is it possible that this year's second installment might not have paid out yet? Hmmmm.....$3350.00 goes a long way to helping keep the lil' chilluns happy at Christmastime. If this is the case, maybe it's time to load the stockings with coal.

___________________________________

"I have some of the more experienced people in the legislature working for me. That's why my monetary situation is different." - State Senator Dale "Mr. Pickle" Volker when asked about cutting his office expenses.

"It's a perfect example of you need to get out and vote because all your votes count".
Mark Montour- Democratic, Republican, Independence, Conservative and Working Families parties candidate for Lancaster Town Justice

"I don't think it was luck" -Donna Stempniak, unopposed candidate for Lancaster Town Council on winning re-election.

“What these towns are about to do, if they have their way, is kill the goose that laid the golden egg” -Victor Martucci, vice president of Marrano Marc/Equity in response to local towns opposing the 339-y condo law.

[Foot Fungus]

Originally Posted by pudge

Well rising, guess what? Yipee, they are all losers and taxpayers are the winners. Why didn't Stempniak bring this up before? Did she wait until she retires and got her $54,000 retirement package?

Stempniak retired recently. I wonder if she is old enough to be in the group that got the lifetime health insurance before it was done away with? Anyone out there in the school district domain that could answer this? Just wondering...she seems to get lots of stuff.

___________________________________

"I have some of the more experienced people in the legislature working for me. That's why my monetary situation is different." - State Senator Dale "Mr. Pickle" Volker when asked about cutting his office expenses.

"It's a perfect example of you need to get out and vote because all your votes count".
Mark Montour- Democratic, Republican, Independence, Conservative and Working Families parties candidate for Lancaster Town Justice

"I don't think it was luck" -Donna Stempniak, unopposed candidate for Lancaster Town Council on winning re-election.

“What these towns are about to do, if they have their way, is kill the goose that laid the golden egg” -Victor Martucci, vice president of Marrano Marc/Equity in response to local towns opposing the 339-y condo law.

[pudge]

Foot Fungus;411986]Stempniak retired recently. I wonder if she is old enough to be in the group that got the lifetime health insurance before it was done away with? Anyone out there in the school district domain that could answer this? Just wondering...she seems to get lots of stuff.

Foot, punch into Google, "Do Buffalo School Teachers get lifetime health insurance" and you will find several threads they say they do.

No wonder Stempniak would choose to kill insurance for all part-time board members, but would leave the full time free loaders from still getting their buyouts - those that are getting their insurance paid for by outside public sector payers.

Greed seems to be the word of choice lately. And, I have to agree with you and others posting on the site that since health insurance buyouts for elected officials was never approved anytime or anywhere by town board approval, why shouldn't they pay back what they illegally took?

Man, if only someone would instate a lawsuit to do so. Or someone with the ability to put together a "class action" suit to get town taxpayer money back taken under the guise of "fraud".

Gee, maybe the new Town Attorney could file suit! (Stop laughing before you piss your pants)

[hawkeye]

Foot, punch into Google, "Do Buffalo School Teachers get lifetime health insurance" and you will find several threads they say they do.

No wonder Stempniak would choose to kill insurance for all part-time board members, but would leave the full time free loaders from still getting their buyouts - those that are getting their insurance paid for by outside public sector payers.

Greed seems to be the word of choice lately. And, I have to agree with you and others posting on the site that since health insurance buyouts for elected officials was never approved anytime or anywhere by town board approval, why shouldn't they pay back what they illegally took?

Man, if only someone would instate a lawsuit to do so. Or someone with the ability to put together a "class action" suit to get town taxpayer money back taken under the guise of "fraud".

Gee, maybe the new Town Attorney could file suit! (Stop laughing before you piss your pants)

The people that suited the Town of Lancaster should consider sueing the town and get Richard Sherwood to act on the behalf of the Taxpayers. The ex town attorney did enough to screw up the last suit, and he has enough doors to open to get them, get some of his anger out and paybacks a bitch. Ha, Ha. just a idea or not but to get Giza at his own game would be great. have the former headhunter cut their (wows) off would be worth the price of admission. Who has the address of the Coldcraft Five please get hold of them to raise out of the ashes and start the fire to burn the Town Boards (wows) off.

[Foot Fungus]

From SUWNY front page:
http://www.speakupwny.com/article_3866.shtml

Before proposing his resolution, Ruffino declared that the resolution was very admirable. He said he did some research and found that council members in a town the size of Lancaster are the lowest paid.

Ummmm....wasn't it known what the job paid before Mr. Clocks and Bells ran for office?

He added that board member John Abraham would take a 9% pay cut, Dan Amatura would lose his Town provided health insurance coverage and that Donna Stempniak and he would take a 27% pay cut.

Now wait a minute here. A pay cut? Since when did the health care buyout become a part of their salary? As of yet, no one has even shown cause for these payments that they have received for years, or who authorized these payments for which, once again, there is no documentation that they should have received them in the first place.

It's interesting that Stempniak started throwing around the idea of doing away with health care for part time elected officials after Amatura's original resolution to do away with the buyouts, yet it was Ruffino's resolution when it comes to a vote. Could the reason be that we need to make Ruffino look like he's looking out for the taxpayer going into his re-election bid next November? Will this be his campaign flyer accomplishment (along with taxpayer funded clocks and bells of course)? I would hope not, as I agree with the writer of the article. This does not go far enough. Why are the Supervisor and Town Clerk still receiving this buyout? Why are elected part time justices receiving either health insurance and/or health insurance buyouts? These should be eliminated along with the rest, there is no difference in their position from thepart time Town Board members.

“Fine with me,” declared Amatura.

At least Amatura took it like a man, let's see if the rest of these "public servants" can find it within themselves to do the same.

And I still believe that if these buyouts cannot be documented as to their "gifting" and unless it is known who "gifted" them, the $150,000 plus that was handed out on a whim needs to be returned.

They really don't think that this is going to go away, do they?

Citing that the country and state are in a crisis mode, “We are trying to lead by example,” Ruffino stated.

It's nice to see that Mr. Clocks and Bells can lead by example with the ideas and proposals of others. In reality, it's called being a follower and trying to cover your ass while trying to turn it into a plus for re-election.

I can't wait to watch the Lancaster Dems try to use Amatura's "No" vote against him the next time his name is on the ballot. Danny A is absolutely correct, the resolution did not go far enough. Hopefully we'll see him continue to fight for the elimination of the rest of the health care giveaways and act as a conduit for finding out who approved this faux addition to the Town Council members' salaries.

___________________________________

"I have some of the more experienced people in the legislature working for me. That's why my monetary situation is different." - State Senator Dale "Mr. Pickle" Volker when asked about cutting his office expenses.

"It's a perfect example of you need to get out and vote because all your votes count".
Mark Montour- Democratic, Republican, Independence, Conservative and Working Families parties candidate for Lancaster Town Justice

"I don't think it was luck" -Donna Stempniak, unopposed candidate for Lancaster Town Council on winning re-election.

“What these towns are about to do, if they have their way, is kill the goose that laid the golden egg” -Victor Martucci, vice president of Marrano Marc/Equity in response to local towns opposing the 339-y condo law.

[Wag]

I can't believe this. So they took Amatura's resolution, scorned it as "slick", changed it around to take out the health insurance too, gave it to Ruffino, and passed it.

And we're supposed to believe that's not "Slick"!

[Foot Fungus]

Originally Posted by Wag

And we're supposed to believe that's not "Slick"!

Yes you are. The Lancaster Bee will probably run a front page headline about Ruffino's brilliance complete with a picture of him with adorning halo (which may just be a double exposure from one of the pictures of him in front of his clocks-he likes those).

Half truths about half accomplishments.

I wonder if the Lancaster Bee will ask about the rest of the buyouts and insurance for the other part time elected officials and justices. Or that nagging question about who authorized the buyouts in the first place? My guess is they won't.

___________________________________

"I have some of the more experienced people in the legislature working for me. That's why my monetary situation is different." - State Senator Dale "Mr. Pickle" Volker when asked about cutting his office expenses.

"It's a perfect example of you need to get out and vote because all your votes count".
Mark Montour- Democratic, Republican, Independence, Conservative and Working Families parties candidate for Lancaster Town Justice

"I don't think it was luck" -Donna Stempniak, unopposed candidate for Lancaster Town Council on winning re-election.

“What these towns are about to do, if they have their way, is kill the goose that laid the golden egg” -Victor Martucci, vice president of Marrano Marc/Equity in response to local towns opposing the 339-y condo law.

[Foot Fungus]

From SUWNY front page:

http://www.speakupwny.com/article_3867.shtml

Referring to a comment I made that the town has a Cadillac type health insurance plan, Supervisor Robert Giza later stated that is was not a Cadillac plan. Well, if it is not, why would the board members be selling the fact that everyone would be opting to take it if their buyouts were eliminated?

Come on, he's already got the overpriced SUV, thank God he doesn't have the Cadillac. Compared to the average Joe, our Lancaster "public servants" are doing pretty damned well, but...

Scime replied, “My point is, if I come into this job and have insurance I would not take the town insurance.” Scime ran for the lone council seat this past election and had based her campaign on doing away with health insurance buyouts for part-time elected officials.

Ruffino asked Scime what would be her position if her health insurance was not as good as the town’s plan. Scime answered that she would not take the town insurance.

Ruffino responded with, “It’s a little different if you’re standing here and have a choice instead of you standing there and making accusations.
(Easy Ron, no one is accusing you of anything. You cut out your own town provided health insurance.)

Ruffino continued with: “I pay a good premium to keep my insurance at the bank. I come here and I don’t have to pay anything.”

Is that Mr. Clocks complaining? Most people hope to have a shot at health insurance, period. This idiot's got two and he's complaining on top of the $6700 buyout he's been taking from taxpayers for doing them the favor of not taking the insurance from them. Hey Ron, if the premium that you have to pay at the bank is so bad, I hope that you berate your supervisors about it in the same manner that you do the residents.

After the meeting, Beutler voiced that if the board members were receiving health insurance buyouts for the past 12 years at a cost somewhere around $150,000, and where there was no resolution approved for board members to receive such buyouts, “why is no one thinking about suing the board members to get that money back?”

There's that daunting question again, who approved this and where's the documentation that approves it?

Fronczak asked Supervisor Giza whether he had lifetime insurance and had the buyout option. Giza responded that he did not have lifetime insurance, but did have outside insurance and the buyout option.

Fronczak asked, “So, that’s going to cease now, for you?” “No,” answered Supervisor Giza.

The Supervisor will have no part of this crap.

“So, you’re going to take $6,000 on top of this,” asked Fronczak? “Yep,” answered Giza.

He seems very proud of this accomplishment

“So you’re still going to get lifetime town insurance and are still going to get $6,000 on top of that,” Fronczak asked?

“I don’t get lifetime insurance from the town,” answered Giza. “There was lifetime insurance at one time.”

Poor baby, there's got to be a way to get it (although if you tuck away enough years of buyouts it might hold you over for a while or you can just take it without any documentation or resolution like health insurance buyouts-quick someone get working on this).

“From the Boy’s Club, right,” Fronczak asked.

“Right,” answered Giza.

Stop right there.

This is interesting. Now we know that the Boys Club exists on fundraising and grants and stuff....but...

It also receives a very generous amount of money from...the Town Of Lancaster. If I'm right, about $120,000 per year. So the Town gives a large chunk of money to the Boy's Club, the Supervisor receives his health care from the Boy's Club (who they give the large chunk of money to every year), and the Supervisor takes the insurance buyout for not taking the insurance from the Town.

Something just doesn't seem right here. Couldn't one say that the Town is paying for both his health care AND his buyout (which is given by a shadowy figure deep wthin the bowels of the Town Hall, it must be, no one knows how it gets approved).

Hmmmmm........

“But you do get free insurance, and you’re going to take the $6,000 buyout,” Fronczak asked.

“If I’m entitled to it why shouldn’t I take it,” Giza responded.

Ahhhhh, the entitlements of being a "public servant". With that attitude, I guess we know why everyone working for the Town continues to get their raises every year while many in the real world go without. The next time your employer tells you that there will be no raise this year, be sure to tell him that you're entitled to it. The boss needs an occasional good laugh too.

Fronczak went on to say that he also thought Ruffino’s resolution was a step in the right direction, but the cuts were not deep enough.

“You’ll never be satisfied Mike,” Giza commented. “No matter how hard we work, you’ll never be satisfied.
“So, then other elected officials also have that option,” asked Fronczak?

“Full-time,” answered Giza. “Full-time employees,” asked Fronczak. Giza responded in the affirmative.

It's good to be the King. However your Royal Highness (or is that heinous), there is still no Royal Decree on buyouts, even for the full timers.

Supervisor Giza told Fronczak that full-time elected officials would still be eligible for the health insurance buyout should they have outside insurance coverage. Why then doesn’t Ruffino’s resolution include the two town justices in the exclusion language?

What's the difference between a part time elected official and a part time elected official?

If indeed no Town Board resolution or official document exist stating that elected officials are entitled to health insurance buyouts, as is the case with “regular” town employees, why did Supervisor Giza tell Mike Fronczak that he is entitled to the buyout?

Because he's a part of the Lancaster "Public Servant" Free Cheese Express.

___________________________________

"I have some of the more experienced people in the legislature working for me. That's why my monetary situation is different." - State Senator Dale "Mr. Pickle" Volker when asked about cutting his office expenses.

"It's a perfect example of you need to get out and vote because all your votes count".
Mark Montour- Democratic, Republican, Independence, Conservative and Working Families parties candidate for Lancaster Town Justice

"I don't think it was luck" -Donna Stempniak, unopposed candidate for Lancaster Town Council on winning re-election.

“What these towns are about to do, if they have their way, is kill the goose that laid the golden egg” -Victor Martucci, vice president of Marrano Marc/Equity in response to local towns opposing the 339-y condo law.

[Santo23]

This whole topic is ridiculous - health insurance for part-time and elected officials ... and buy-outs. This is 2008, times are different. At my place of work I work full-time and 4 years ago they shifted from full coverage to paying only the lowest plan premium, for myself only. Yes they offer a buy-out, $30/month but it's not the windfall that the town and school district are paying. If I want the basic coverage for my family I pay individually for my wife and each child. If I want the premium plan I pay the increased rate for me, my wife, and each child. Can I blame my employer, no - they provide basic insurance to me, the person they employ. I'm grateful to them for that.

The public sector (all of them) need to wake up and realize the gravy train is out of control and about to run off the tracks. Gheesh.