False Starts - False Prophets

[RobSmith]

I was on my way to a local coffee shop to meet a friend, when I happened upon a large snow covered field. In the middle of the field were around 50 geese looking around at each other in muted embarrassment; as if they expected to find something else, other then snow and cold, at this point in the annual migration north. This has seemed like an especially long winter, and I obviously was projecting my longing for spring upon these poor creatures. But it was tough to resist, as this scene screamed to me, “we’re almost there, but not quite yet.” This same thought crossed my mind a few days earlier, while in attendance at the first meeting of Free Buffalo.

The dust has settled, two groups Free Buffalo and Primary Challenge as self anointed leaders of the “Tax Payer Revolution” Free Buffalo is a proposed public policy research group, in other words a “think tank”, which will be formally incorporated as a not for profit corporation as soon as $50,000 is raised. Primary Challenge is a not for profit organization which will run candidates in the primary elections against incumbent legislators. It is good that the outcry was channeled into something more productive then internet advocacy. But it is clear that neither group will accomplish anything but cosmetic changes to problems that have been facing our county for far too long.

I support Free Buffalo’s goal of studying and providing solutions to the issues. We need a think tank composed of individuals who are not political allies with elected officials who got us in the mess. The problem starts with the implementation of any of the solutions that are identified. Free Buffalo’s founder, James Ostrowski, has stated that the information his proposed group will be available to all. Mr. Ostrowski has not stated how he plans to push his identified reforms through the county and state bureaucracies, once his organization finds a solution, once his organization identifies the problems, and once he raises the required capital to start his organization.

I support Primary Challenge’s desire to utilize the electoral process to remove those individuals who have gotten us in this mess. But we need to be serious here for a moment. The root of these problems can be traced back many years, many electoral cycles in fact. The roots of these problems lie in special interests and because of political favors that are owed. Even if Primary Challenge is successful in knocking all 15 Legislators (if they run in all races) out in the Primary round of the election, they will still have to take on these Machines in November. And these aren’t even the largest issues facing the organization.

Primary Challenge is organized under the banner of reform via kicking the rascals out. This is the extent of their organizing principle. Beyond that, they are 15 separate candidates running under two different parties’ banners. This will make it very difficult, if not impossible to create a central message with specific issues and solutions which all 15 candidates run. Without this central message there is no point for Primary Challenge to even exist.

Next what is the business structure under which they are organizing? I am told over and over again that they are going to be a not for profit organization and not a political action committee. This limits the amount of support they can provide candidates. This best illustrates Primary Challenge’s struggle for an identity; as the majority of their plans are only legal if they were organized as a PAC. And before I get nasty e-mails stating this isn’t the case, you will be required to document, citing specific election law, how my observation is incorrect.

What has become obvious is that we are still in the search of the umbrella organization which will turn our cry for change into actual change this November. The party machines and Buffalo News have begun to circle the wagons. These two political parties have run our local and state government into the ground for far too long. It is time to remove both parties’ from office with a unified, populist agenda. Stay tuned…..

[jbinbny]

It certainly will be a challenge finding individuals who are not or WILL NOT BECOME political allies of those who got us into this mess. Free Buffalo's goal is noble, but how long will the unbiased analysis continue?

I wish I could say for as long as it takes. But I have my reservations.

Primary Challenge has the right idea. Get rid of all politico's who have gotten us into this mess. Personally, I would not object to wiping the political landscape clean. Can the newly elected do worse than the long time incumbent? Idont know for sure, but I'm willing to find out.

I think one reform that should be adopted is term limits. No doubt this an amendment that is long overdue.

On the question of special interests? Well let's just say that the longer a politico is in office, the more vulnerable he/she is to the harlots known as special interests.

[Curmudgeon]

From what I can see, the "plan" is to take control of the process by hijacking the democratic AND republican candidates in the primaries. NYS election law makes it very costly and difficult to field a 3rd party candidate. It it possible to win all 15 democrat candidate seats AND all 15 republican candidate seats with Primary Challenge members, thus making the general election superflourous.

The really interesting thing is, how will the Machine react to a "non-party" (Primary Challenge) attempting to gain control over BOTH parties with candidates who are loyal to the "non-party"?

Is this "non-party" a party? is it a non-profit? Is it a religion that the candidates "happen to" belong to? Is it a "state of mind"? A set of opinions people share??

Just what exactly is a party, anyway? And who will stop an organization like Primary Challenge from executing their plan? And how would they do it? Is the board of elections willing to invalidate a slate of candidates that the people voted for in the primaries?


I find the Primary Challenge idea facinating. After all, they still have to win an election (the primary). If they do, then that is the will of the people.....

[Linda_D]

Actually, I think that Primary Challenge's first and biggest hurdle will be getting candidates into the primaries. NY's elections laws are arcane, and the signatures on the nominating petitions have to be done exactly right or they get thrown out. It's so hard to get valid signatures that the regular party candidates usually get hundreds or thousands extra just to make sure they have enough "valid" ones. Moreover, I have no doubt that the regular party organizations will examine PC's petitions with magnifying glasses with the purpose of declaring petitions invalid.

It might be more practical to field fewer candidates and concentrate on the legislators who are most vulnerable (perhaps Holt and Swanick?). It's going to take real bucks to beat any of the regular party candidates in the primaries, so going after all 15 seats at once is ambitious, perhaps overly so.

Then there's also the possibility that party-backed legislators who lose to PC candidates can still appear on the ballot on the smaller party -- Conservative and Liberal Parties -- lines.

[moonshine]

Getting valid signatures is not that hard if you dot your t's and cross your i's. I did it for a few years and detested the process, but it isn't brain surgery...just sweat equity. You always get more signatures than needed, hopefully double the requirement, especially when you are challenging an entrenched candidate. The machine will spend major bucks to scrutinize every signature on the petition and sometime even call into question the character of the person collecting the signatures. All's fair in war and politics. I always found it advantageous to form a hip-pocket collection of individuals who were ready to sign the petition within minutes of a phone call. Call your friends, talk to your neighbors, and be prepared the first day that petitions are legally able to be circulated. If you are well networked you should be able to lock-up their signatures within hours. Sparing yourself from cold-calling (going door-to-door) will save your energy for the important issues that arise after the petition period.

[Linda_D]

Are you advising Primary Challenge, moonshine? Seriously, I think they need someone like you. If they don't have people who are familiar with the political process -- and it seems to me that they are looking for political "rookies" -- their campaign won't get out of the starting blocks, ie, they won't get their candidates into the primaries.

[moonshine]

New York state election laws are available online at:
http://www.elections.state.ny.us/dow...tion2005CD.pdf

Here is the requirement for county legislators:
(l) For any county legislative district, five hundred signatures.

This is documented in section 6-138.

This part is important:

The name of a person signing such a petition for an election for which voters are required to be registered shall not be counted if the name of a person who has signed such a petition appears upon another valid and effective petition designating or nominating the same or a different person for the same office.

Meaning, DON'T SIGN TWO PETITIONS for the same elected position!

I don't have time to read thru the details of the election law, but if memory serves, a minor party candidate needs at least 5% of their registered voters to sign the petition. This means you could potentially eliminate a candidate from a third-party line by obtaining over 95% of the signatures of registered voters for that party. For instance, there are probably only 10 right-to-lifers in the City of Tonawanda, so if I am the first petitioner to obtain 95% of their signatures the opposing candidate will be locked out of that party line. Someone please verify this or scold me for being wrong

Obviously the "big" third-party, aka the Independence party, probably has a couple of hundred registered voters in each county district. A well coordinated petition campaign could potentially prevent Sweaterboy from running on that party line again.

[moonshine]

Are you advising Primary Challenge

Absolutely Not! I just have an intensive love/hate relationship with the process.

[RobSmith]

It is no more costly to start a third party then to challenge an incumbent. In addition, the signature requirements are not so extreme as to make it unviable.

What is a party, what is a PAC? Straight not for profit groups have certain legal barriers from becoming involved in politics. This is why Jim O has been very careful in stating that Free Buffalo and Primary Challenge are separate groups. It is important because these are legal designations with different scopes of involvement.

[buffy]

It is no more costly to start a third party then to challenge an incumbent

Forgive me if this question has already been addressed elsewhere (i am a new registrant), but, are you planning to start a NEW party, or is there an exsisting third party, ex. Working Families, that could be utilized?

[RobSmith]

Now there's a nice direct question.....lol.

The only way to answer your question without getting bombarded with major amounts of follow up posts and e-mails that I don't have the capacity to deal with at this point-------- look for an announcement in the next week or so.

[biker]

The challenges to filed petitions brings up a memory.

Several months ago, there were articles about how paid staff members of elected officials were at the Board of Elections poring through the petitions of thoses challenging the incumbents.

At first, a fiction was maintained that these hacks were coming over on their lunch hours, thereby "volunteering" to do this duty.

Then the articles continued. Wow, these people must have long, flexible lunch hours; they're here three or four hours a day. And you know what---the reporters went to the offices where these pukes "worked" and there was no sign-in/out log to verify that they were on their lunch breaks.

Finally, all pretense was dropped (must have been after the filing deadlines). The articles concluded that public employees were doing this dirty work while they were being paid.

But, hey, everybody does it.

Primarychallenge now has lots of volunteers. Perhaps one volunteer should be posted at the Board of Elections to monitor who's reviewing petitions. It's not that big a place.

Armed with a camera. Posting pictures of the reviewers. The reporters might not have the time or interest to follow this story. But it'd be easy to put together a montage from pix posted right here on SpeakUp.

[RobSmith]

And remember to bring several witnesses, possibly with their own recording equipment.