Rally Against Casinos in Cheektowaga & Buffalo Area

[joehajduk]

As many of you have read I am against Casinos in this area for many reasons. Casinos do have a place in society if business is conducted to enhance the entire community, this however is most definitely not the case dealing with the Senecas. I strongly feel that more public support in numbers needs to be shown to our politicians such as Mayor Masiello and Town Supervisor Gabryszak that they are wrong in thier push for casinos in our area. I would very much like to have a rally in the next few weeks at a site in Cheektowaga. Please send me your opinions and suggestions. If you wish your mail to be confidential please send it to me at joehajduk@insidecheektowaga.com and please mark it confidential.
Thank you for your thoughts and suggestins.
Joe Haduk Candidate for Supervisor - Cheektowaga

[Unregistered]

Does anyone here know of joel rose? I heard he's an anti-casino person. Perhaps we should get a hold of him to help with the rally.

Joe what date are you aimimg for. Planning is needed to have the best results.

[joehajduk]

Lets get a hold of Joel what ever way we can. This is a joint effort for the community and not for any political machine. We need to show the entire community that they the people are in control if they chose to be. Looking forward to meeting and working with you on this most serious project.
Joe Hajduk

[joelrose]

You don't have to find me. I just stumbled onto this thread today, so I guess you could say I found you!

Interesting that you folks in Cheektowaga are now talking about a rally against casinos. Citizens Against Casino Gambling in Erie County (CACGEC) had a special meeting last night to begin planning our second rally. We'd love to have you join us. Anyone who wishes to get involved with CACGEC can contact us in any of the following ways:

send an e-mail through our website, http://nocasinoerie.org,

send an e-mail directly to me, joelrose@buffalo.edu,

call CACGEC at 716-440-8126,

call me directly at 716-645-3566 (work) or 716-837-7175 (home).

As to a rally in Cheektowaga, we haven't picked a rally site yet, but are leaning toward a Buffalo site. If the Senecas announce a preferred casino site any time soon, our choice of a site for the rally may reflect that.

Meanwhile, we are picketing in front of Buffalo City Hall every Monday, 4-5 p.m., until such time as the Seneca Nation announces a site. All are welcome to join us.

Best regards,

Joel Rose

[WNYresident]

You know a casino wouldn't be bad if the contract was in favor of the community.

For starters everything in writing, trust no one, state gets nothing so the community here gains all the benefits.

No compete clauses with hooks that stick. Casino fails you lose the land it goes back to the city no whining about it. No land can be purchased around the casino with coming off the tax rolls either.

All in writing NO bs, trust no one, specially your current crop of local leaders.

[joelrose]

Someone wrote:

> You know a casino wouldn't be bad if the
> contract was in favor of the community. ...

Two comments: First of all, none of that is going to happen. The state is attempting to use WNY, one of its poorest areas, to produce a stream of revenue, with no concern whatever for its effect on the community.

Second, even if a deal more favorable to the host community could be structured, that might make it less bad, but it still would be far from beneficial overall. The revenue made available to the community, even under the best of deals, pales in comparison to the societal costs. Some 5-10% of gamblers become problem or patholigical gamblers. They provide about half the revenue for casinos nationwide. In local terms, we would have thousands of additional problem/pathological gamblers. Now think of the bankruptcies, the substance abuse, the prostitution and crime, the broken homes, and the suicides that would inevitably follow.

It is true that there are already too many opportunities for people to gamble, but there are studies that show, not surprisingly, that each time you add a casino, the people who were already gambling gamble more, and some of those who weren't gambling before will start. It's a matter of convenience and degree of temptation. So don't think for a moment that we've already got the problem, so it doesn't matter anymore. The social problems associated with gambling will get much worse if a casino is built in our county.

[sbGUY27]

what church organisations areyou with. In case you have no idea of where you are living or what goes on around here but churches have lawn fetes and gambling heaven forbid is there.
Plus in case you do not know this but OTB is on alot of corners in this area. Have you seen them. New ones have even been seen going up. Also I can tell you of about 5 people I could call to place a bet on the Bills, Knicks, Girls field hockey, do I need to go on. Pathological gamblers and addicts will find them. Why let them give that money to the neighborhood bookie. Protest all you wish but a Money making business in this area should be welcome. You see what the nitpicking common coulcil got Buffalo. Lets get something in here. The Senecas are willing to put up with this god forsaken place. I say let them.

[sbGUY27]

And even more I have not heard a mention of a Casion going up in Cheektavega. Are you joining forces with Joel?

[joelrose]

Someone wrote:

> what church organisations areyou with.

I personally have no church or other religious affiliation, although I fail to see what that has to do with anything. However, local religious leaders of virtually every denomination have, at one time or another, taken a stand against expansion of legalized gambling.

> In case you have no idea of where you are living > or what goes on around here but churches have > lawn fetes and gambling heaven forbid is there.

That's nickle-dime stuff. It doesn't (usually) destroy families. It's hard to lose the mortgage money playing church bingo, etc. Moreover, whatever gambling we have now is already exacting a price. That price will increase as we add more forms and opportunities for gambling. Casinos in particular exact a very high price. This is not speculation; it has been well researched. The notion that because we already allow some forms of gambling there should be no limits at all seems ludicrous to me. What we're trying to do is keep things from getting any worse.

If it were true that casinos actually helped with economic development, you might have a case -- then it would be a trade-off between costs and benefits. But they don't. Look at the big eastern cities that have tried it. It hasn't helped anywhere. They get traffic, but in terms of jobs, it's always a net loss. What you get instead is lots of crime and urban decay. For evidence of this, please see http://ncalg.org

[sbGUY27]

how about the OTB? The local bookie. You have to take up with them too if you want to make a stand against gambling. I don't see anybody going down to tha Fair grounds to close up the cart races. Or is that not a place where you could loose the farm.

Yesterday I sat in line at NOCO waiting for a guy to finish buying $50 in scratch offs. $50 dollars is alot for a day. Maybe nickle and dime but I am sure he does this often. If you'er trying to hit it big on lucky 7s then you have a problem. And I know you have seen this happen too.

I think that we should focus more on the problems at hand than the ones that could be. Like the drug streets on the East and West sides of Buffalo. Where by the way your Cheektowaga residents come to buy their smack too. I see that as a more worth while effort than crying wolf about a casino.

I looked at you website and it reads like a bunch of liberal propaganda

[Unregistered]

"Yesterday I sat in line at NOCO waiting for a guy to finish buying $50 in scratch offs. $50 dollars is alot for a day. "

We ought to pass a law!!!!
Guess what. The guy at NOCO is a complete idiot and I'm sure his lottery ticket purchases are but one of his many problems. You can't help him. No one can. What you CAN do is pass stupid laws that won't protect him anyway and will WILL result in economic loss for the rest of us. Sometimes you just have to know when to let go.
"Hello. We're from the government and we're here to help".

[joelrose]

Someone wrote:

> how about the OTB? The local bookie.

I don't think you're getting my point. Let me try again:

Yes, of course we have gambling now. But that does not mean we have fully tapped the potential for people to spend as much of their money as possible on gambling. In fact, you never do. No matter how bad it is, add another gambling venue and you make it that much worse.

Different people have different gambling styles. I'll use myself as an example. When in Las Vegas, I've been to a casino a couple of times. And I've been to the horse races in Fort Erie twice, as I recall. But I've never been to OTB. And I don't play the lottery, although my wife has been known to. In a casino, I preferred blackjack to slot machines. Everybody is different in this way.

The amazing thing is, even if you already have a casino, adding a second one increases the amount of gambling people do. Talk to Dr. John Welte, Senior Research Scientist at the Research Institute on Addictions, here in Buffalo. He did a national study on that very question, and that's what he found.

> Yesterday I sat in line at NOCO waiting for a
> guy to finish buying $50 in scratch offs. $50 > dollars is alot for a day. Maybe nickle and dime > but I am sure he does this often. If you'er > trying to hit it big on lucky 7s then you have a > problem. And I know you have seen this happen > too.

Oh, of course some people manage to spend a lot playing the lottery. But in a casino, you could go in and literally lose everything you own, and then some, in one evening (or in one spin of the wheel or roll of the dice, if you're so inclined). That's why it's worse.

I'm not defending those other forms of gambling, and I agree they are harmful to some people. But it does not follow that every gambling addict can and does find some alternative in the absence of a casino. And in fact, we have ample data to show that's just not true.

There are real human beings who are doing okay now (despite all the forms of gambling currently available), whose lives will be ruined if we allow a casino in Buffalo. I don't want that on my conscience. Do you?

[sbGUY27]

So you are against gambling but go to vegas

[sbGUY27]

If a gambler is breaking up his or her family that is up to his or her spouse to show them the way. I want to know why we have so many crusaders in this area. I want to go to a casino in buffalo.
Any help will be welcome on my eyes. I could care less about the idiots that can't control themselves. Not my problem. My problem is I am being taxed because Buffalo had a incompotent comptroller and a couple mayors that i was not old enough to vote for but am stuck with. I have another problem,actavists from other towns trying to keep revenue away from my city.

[joelrose]

sbguy27 wrote:

> So you are against gambling but go to vegas

I never said I was against gambling. In moderation, it's a more-or-less harmless vice. I was in Vegas for a conference. Every hotel has a casino. So, while in Rome, I did as the Romans did. I also used to enjoy a low stakes poker game now and again.

One thing I did notice about the casino was what a sad place it was. No windows. No clocks. No evidence anywhere of the passage of time. The drinks, of course, were free, and the food was almost free. They know they'll get their money back if you just stay there long enough. Nobody seemed to be having a good time -- they mostly seemed intent on getting back to even.

That phenomenon -- free or cheap drink and food -- is one of the reasons casinos of all sorts hurt their host communities: the bars and restaurants can't compete with those loss-leader prices. That's why over half of the small businesses in Atlantic City closed after the introduction of casinos. And in the case of Erie County, we're talking about a tax-exempt facility, which would just exacerbate the problem of cut-rate competition.

We in CACGEC are not puritans (at least, that's true of most of us). The reason we don't want to see a casino in our community is that we believe, based on all available evidence, that it would harm our community. We're talking about serious social problems, but also just in straight economic terms, these things do more harm than good.

Since I've been invloved with this issue, I've learned more about the effects of all these forms of legalized gambling, and I personally have made a decision not to participate in any of them. I won't patronize a casino anywhere, nor will I buy a lottery ticket in the future. But that's a personal decision, and not particularly relevant to a discussion about what kinds of development are good for our community.

And that's what we're talking about.

Incidentally, in your earlier post you said our web site looked like "liberal propaganda." For the sake of our other readers, I'll just point out that our members are all across the political spectrum, and belong to all the major political parties. But that kind of argument is nothing more than name-calling.

If anybody out there has something substantive to discuss, I'll gladly engage. But I'm not going to take part in a name-calling contest.