View Poll Results: ARE LIBERALS, SOCIALISTS & UNIONS THE REASON FOR OUR FAILED SCHOOLS?

Voters
41. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    29 70.73%
  • No

    12 29.27%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23

Thread: Are Liberals, Socialists & Unions The Reason For Our Failed Schools?

  1. #1
    moadib
    Guest

    Are Liberals, Socialists & Unions The Reason For Our Failed Schools?

    ARE LIBERALS, SOCIALISTS & UNIONS THE REASON FOR OUR FAILED SCHOOLS?

    I just read an interesting statistic about our schools
    -We are spending more money on non-teaching resources like teachers aids, substitute teachers, principles, guidance counselors, counselors, nurses, janitors, school board administration........than we are on teaching

    -We are spending more money on paperwork and beaurocratic administration that we are on teaching

    -We cant keep schools open for sports or after school activities because of janitorial union contracts

    -We are spending more time teaching sex education, race relations, tolerance, environment, etc....than we are teaching all the sciences, mathmatics, literature, art, music, athletics, trades, etc.

    -We arent disciplining kids in school or teaching them respect for authority.

    There are some liberal viewpoints that I support and respect but lets face facts, liberals dominate the educational profession and our schools are miserable failures compared to private schools that dont buy into any of this liberal crap or teachers union crap.

    Schools are there for Kids not to employ beaurocrats

  2. #2
    Gold Member Night Owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    shhhhhhh
    Posts
    6,141
    There have been quite a few threads about schools asking who's more accountable.

    Are you asking this question about failing schools on an academic or financial level?

  3. #3
    moadib
    Guest

    Both. There spending more on admin & their teaching non-core courses

    Both. There spending more on admin & their teaching non-core courses

    Check all the federal and state statistics
    -Teachers in private, parochial and charter schools stay and tutor after school which cant be done in public schools w/o the janitors approval because union rules require overtime pay for extra school hours
    -Teachers are being forced to teach life courses like manners, respect, sex ed, home finances, etc.....but that isnt going to get them into college or get a job....math, science, art, music, athletics, technology, trades...those are core courses
    -Teaching supplies have increased with inflation
    -Teaching salaries have increased slightly faster than inflation w/o factoring health and retirement
    SO ITS A DILUTION OF TEACHING AND MATERIAL AS WELL AS INCOMPETENCE AND CLASS SIZES (AND LACK OF ABILITY TO DISCIPLINE STUDENTS)

    What has increased dramatically
    -Teachers aids
    -Teachers Administrators
    -Principles
    -Assistant Principles
    -School Board & Superintendent Staff
    IN OTHER WORDS SCHOOL BURACRACY

    SO NOT ONLY ARENT WE TEACHING, DISCIPLINING BUT WE ARE INEFFICIENT AND BECOMING A TOP HEAVY UN-ACCOUNTABLE EXPENSIVE BURACRACY

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    761
    Check this guy out.
    Tons of articles: Jerry Moore
    http://www.myshortpencil.com/schoolt...pc=2&post=9927
    .................................................. ....
    NY Teacher Salaries #1 in Nation: Exceed national average by 34%
    NEA 2004 Annual Report
    NEA PRESS RELEASE

    The NEA has issued its annual report on teacher salaries and other school-related statistics. Among its findings:

    National
    The average expenditure per-student in K-12 public schools was $7,875 in 2002-03, a 4.6 percent rise over the previous year. In comparison, spending for this school year, 2003-04, was estimated to increase by 3.6 percent.
    The average public school teacher salary for 2002-03 was $45,891, a 2.8 percent increase over the previous year. In comparison, the average salary for this school year, 2003-04, was estimated to increase by 2.0 percent. With benefits rising much faster than inflation, it's pretty amazing that average salaries are likewise rising faster than inflation.
    The average local, state and federal government revenue per K-12 student in fall enrollment, 2001-02 was $8,718. Total revenues for public schools increased 4.3 percent in 2002-03 from the previous year. Totals for 2003-04 were estimated to increase just 4.9 percent from the previous year.

    State
    States with the highest per-pupil spending for 2002-03: New York ($11,588), Connecticut ($11,378), New Jersey ($11,103), Massachusetts ($10,353) and Delaware ($10,270).
    Lowest per-pupil spending for 2002-03: Utah ($4,907), Arizona ($5,197), Alabama ($5,418), Arkansas ($5,789) and Mississippi ($5,822).
    States with the highest average teacher salary for 2002-03: California ($56,283), Connecticut ($55,367) and New Jersey ($54,158). New York's "average" is really a median, as the report notes. It is reported as being $53,017, which is $7,126 or 15.5% above the national average. The median salary greatly understates NY's average. See, below.
    Lowest average teacher salary for 2002-03: South Dakota ($32,416), North Dakota ($33,869) and Mississippi ($34,555).
    Average teacher salaries declined in 18 states over the past 10 years in real, inflation-adjusted dollars. The largest declines were Alaska (-16.6%), Connecticut (-10.3%), Kansas (-9.9%), New York (-7.7%),
    Wisconsin (-6.7%) and Vermont (-6.7%). Declines in average salaries are often caused a disproportionately large number of teacher retirements. What we need to know, but the NEA doesn't report, is the average number of years teaching experience in 1993 and 2003 to see whether the decline is due to a relatively younger teaching staff. When factoring in health insurance, it appears that Alaska is the only possible candidate for a real decline in teacher compensation. But Alaska was #1 in teacher salaries for a while and backing off increases may have been an appropriate adjustment in the state's opinion. In New York's case, the data are simply wrong. See, below.

    First: THE TRUTH ABOUT NY TEACHER SALARIES
    The data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics can be found here.

    AVERAGE TEACHER SALARIES: TOP 5 STATES
    State NEA Avg. 2002-03 Salary NEA Rank Bureau of Labor Statistics May 2003 BLS Rank
    California $56,283 1 $55,500 3
    Connecticut $55,367 2 $55,030 4
    New Jersey $54,158 3 $56,560 2
    Michigan $53,563 4 $50,510 5
    New York $53,017 5 $61,420 1

    The BLS number is the highest average salary earned
    by teachers in one of four groups: kindergarten, elementary,
    middle school or high school.

    Now, I ask you, who are you going to believe is accurately reporting New York's average teacher salaries, the NEA or the BLS?

    The use of NY's median teacher salary rather than the average is an outright, intentional deception by the NEA designed to make NY teacher salaries look lower than they are. Why would the NEA want to do that? Because the NEA wants to make teacher salaries look as small as possible to create as much political leverage as possible to raise them.

    Compared to the $45,891 national average teacher salary reported by the NEA, according to BLS data, NY teachers earn average salaries (excluding benefits) that exceed the national average by $15,500 or 33.8%! When you add health insurance and pension (excluding Social Security) to salaries plus "add-ons", the average NY teacher is being paid an average of $66.71 an hour over a 30-year career. If you exclude the pension, the hourly rate is $45.56. If you then exclude health insurance, leaving only salary and add-ons, the hourly rate is $37.73. Over 40% of NY teacher total compensation is paid in benefits.

    S-G teachers will earn an average of $57,133 in salary over a 30-year career and $59,486 over a 35-year career. When you consider that NYC's living costs are much higher than ours and that NYC's teacher salaries inflate NY's average, S-G teachers are doing quite well and better than NYC's teachers when adjusted for living costs.

    Also, note that S-G's average is above the average teacher salary for every other state in the nation.

    Second: Students per teacher
    New York has an average of 12.6 students per teacher. Only two states have a lower student/teacher ratio. The national average is 15.7.

    So, with more teachers for students than almost every other state, the highest teacher salaries and the highest spending per pupil, how does New York do on The Nation's Report Card? About average. Money is not NY's problem, despite what the Court of Appeals & CFE says. This state is being bullied by institutionalized bandits.

    What are we getting for our money? The only thing we are getting for certain is more powerful teachers unions who want more money for their members. See, e.g., TEACHERS UNION COURTS ALBANY $$.

    Third: The NEA Press Release
    Before leaving this topic, consider what the NEA said in its press release.
    Investments in public schools are not keeping pace with the needs of our children, according to an education funding report released today by the National Education Association (NEA).

    [A]nnual school revenues and spending are stagnant.

    That's what it said. Did you see the numbers, above? Per-pupil spending is up 4.6% for 2002-03 and 3.6% for 2003-04. That's what the NEA calls "stagnant."

    These people simply can't be trusted. Yet, the national media will mindlessly quote from the NEA report despite its biased self-interests. It's ridiculous.
    ============================
    There you are, New Yorkers. 5+ percent increases--among the highest I've seen anywhere in the nation.
    ============================
    Now, despite NY's lowly ranking of #6 in this table, average teacher salaries in NY are the highest in the nation, exceeding the national average by 34%. This is based on unbiased data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
    ===========================
    Buffalo teachers helped to create the conditions requiring state control board intervention by going on two illegal strikes in 2000 and coercing the school district to grant salary increases well above the inflation rate that it couldn't afford.
    ===========================
    You want to know why NY spends more for education than any state in the nation? This is why.

    Teachers will also be eligible for dental and vision cost reimbursement of up to $500, an increase from $300 in the last contract.
    Union members will be paying more for prescription drugs than they did in the prior contract.
    The co-pay for prescriptions was $2 for generic, non-generic and mail order drugs in the earlier contract.
    Now, teachers will have to pay $2 for generic, $5 for nongeneric and $10 for mail order pharmaceuticals.
    =========================
    District adds 10,000 reasons to retire

    The Lackawanna School District has sweetened its retirement incentive for teachers to $20,000, and officials already have had a few nibbles.

    These retirement bonuses have to end. Next year teachers won't retire until the offer is $30,000. The next year it will take $40,000. Economic theory suggests that that teachers will start declining to retire until retirement bonuses equal the total savings the district expects minus $1. Retirement bonuses, euphemistically called "incentives," are bad public policy.

    And retirement bonuses are a way for teachers to pocket some of that savings without doing any work. Retirement bonuses decrease savings, which are typically overestimated by making poor assumptions about when teachers would have retired without the bonuses. Moreover, a system of bonuses simply encourages teachers to work more years when bonuses aren't offered, so they can wait for the next cycle of bonuses. In the long run, school districts will spend more money than they would have otherwise, which is exactly why teachers unions approve of "retirement incentives" as a way to "cut" costs by increasing them.
    Short-run thinking with no concern for long-run consequences. Another consequence of retirement bonuses is it takes the pressure off school boards to better control the size of compensation increases. That just puts the boards in the position of having to offer even more retirement bonuses. It's a vicious circle of escalating costs, which, as I said, is why teachers approve of it.

    Retirement incentives have been offered by several Western New York school districts in recent years, including $30,000 offered by the Kenmore-Town of Tonawanda School District last year.
    I haven't seen co-pays for prescriptions that low for 5 years!
    =========================
    At least Upstate's teachers are well paid
    Earlier this week, a Brookings Institution report told Upstate residents that they tend to earn less than people in other states, even when education and other factors are similar. A sharp-eyed reader of ours (perhaps bleary-eyed, too, after checking the report's fine print) pointed out one exception to the rule: teachers in Upstate New York are paid quite well, thank you.

    "School teachers ... earned about 17 percent more per hour in Upstate than the national average," the Brookings report finds. Not only do we pay teachers well, we hire more of them -- 15 to 31 percent more, proportionally, than the national average. See pages 6 and 7 of the report for details.

    New York State United Teachers, the statewide teachers union, spent more on lobbying in 2003 than any other organization except the hospital workers union, according to the state Lobbying Commission.

    The AFT and UFT spent a combined $3.3 million in lobbying in 2003. That's about $10 per NY educator. With salaries 17% above the national average compared to salaries 4% below the national average for the rest of upstate workers, that's a tremendous return on 10 buck investment. NY politicians are such easy shakedowns.
    ========================
    Teacher pensions are a defined benefit, based on employees' years of work and an average of the three highest years of salary.

    If a teacher with 30 years on the job had a final average salary of $65,000, the annual pension would be $29,000.

    In New York, the annual pension would be $39,000 free from state income taxes, plus Social Security benefits starting around age 66.
    ======================
    Buffalo teachers currently earn $80,000 at the top. They contribute little to the cost of their health insurance.
    ************************
    The average teacher in Florida earned a salary of $39,601 last year, and benefits and extra pay pushed the average income to nearly $50,000, a legislative study released Friday reported.
    ************************
    Oklahoma's average teacher salary is $34,877, well below the regional average of $38,527. Every other state in Oklahoma's seven-state region -- Arkansas, Colorado, Kansas, Missouri, New Mexico and Texas -- pays teachers a higher average salary.
    *************************
    Thank you, Star Tribune! In New York, teachers make more than some physicians on an hourly basis.
    ************************
    You want to know why New York is #1 in spending per pupil? Look no further than the size of these raises. Teachers in other states with much lower salaries are seeing raises that are much smaller. And they are contributing $500 a month to the cost of their health insurance.

    You want to know why public schools need more funding to provided a constitutionally adequate education? The problem is spending, not funding. The problem is relentless, inflation-busting increases in compensation for NY teachers who are already the best paid teachers in the nation.
    =========================

  5. #5
    Gold Member Night Owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    shhhhhhh
    Posts
    6,141
    SO NOT ONLY ARENT WE TEACHING, DISCIPLINING BUT WE ARE INEFFICIENT AND BECOMING A TOP HEAVY UN-ACCOUNTABLE EXPENSIVE BURACRACY

    I think this will probably be the one and only time I do agree with you moadib. Although with the many components of a school system, you'd have to look into each one individually in order to make a change. Just saying it's only "one" thing isn't effective enough to make change.

  6. #6
    Gold Member Night Owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    shhhhhhh
    Posts
    6,141
    The data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics can be found here.

    no link.

  7. #7
    Member farmall806's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    519
    I am not saying that every teacher is like this , but when I was in school, I noticed a much different attitude in the teachers that were in the high school as opposed to the elementary and middle school teachers. The high school teachers seemed to have the attitude of "I just want to put my 40 hours in and collect my paycheck at the end of the week." I remember the teachers "complaining that they ONLY MADE $35,000 a year and had to put up with class sizes that numbered up to 30 students per class. Teachers today are earning much more money. Some of them are making over $100,000 per year and have the same number of students or even less , yet they say they are over worked and UNDERPAID!! Underpaid at $100,000 per year??? And then they want the voters to continualy vote in favor of a school tax increase because they say they are UNDERPAID and students need a quality education. Where is all the money going that we are paying in our school taxes??

    Another thing; Why is it when the voters vote down a school budget that includes a tax increase, the school district can go with a budget that still includes a TAX INCREASE?? If the voters can tell the county legeslators that they don't want a county tax increase and the county budget can get cut without imposing a tax increase on the county taxpayers, why can't the same thing be done with a school budget?

    farmall806

  8. #8
    moonshine
    Guest
    If the voters can tell the county legeslators that they don't want a county tax increase and the county budget can get cut without imposing a tax increase on the county taxpayers, why can't the same thing be done with a school budget
    This is what happens when local control of schools is handed to the state and the fed. The only thing worse than paying taxes to a public school is seeing the gutter trash that graduates from them nowadays.

  9. #9
    moadib
    Guest

    To bad Bush had the guts to invade Iraq but not face the Teachers Union!

    To bad Bush had the guts to invade Iraq but not face the Teachers Union!

    Bush once supported School Vouchers....yes once...then abandoned.

    Allowing parents to choose between public, charter, parochial or private schools would have been an enormous benefit to kids who actually want to go to a safe school and learn!

  10. #10
    Member jbinbny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Buffalo
    Posts
    601
    Originally posted by avet
    Check this guy out.
    Tons of articles: Jerry Moore
    http://www.myshortpencil.com/schoolt...pc=2&post=9927
    .................................................. ....
    NY Teacher Salaries #1 in Nation: Exceed national average by 34%
    NEA 2004 Annual Report
    NEA PRESS RELEASE

    The NEA has issued its annual report on teacher salaries and other school-related statistics. Among its findings:

    National
    The average expenditure per-student in K-12 public schools was $7,875 in 2002-03, a 4.6 percent rise over the previous year. In comparison, spending for this school year, 2003-04, was estimated to increase by 3.6 percent.
    The average public school teacher salary for 2002-03 was $45,891, a 2.8 percent increase over the previous year. In comparison, the average salary for this school year, 2003-04, was estimated to increase by 2.0 percent. With benefits rising much faster than inflation, it's pretty amazing that average salaries are likewise rising faster than inflation.
    The average local, state and federal government revenue per K-12 student in fall enrollment, 2001-02 was $8,718. Total revenues for public schools increased 4.3 percent in 2002-03 from the previous year. Totals for 2003-04 were estimated to increase just 4.9 percent from the previous year.

    State
    States with the highest per-pupil spending for 2002-03: New York ($11,588), Connecticut ($11,378), New Jersey ($11,103), Massachusetts ($10,353) and Delaware ($10,270).
    Lowest per-pupil spending for 2002-03: Utah ($4,907), Arizona ($5,197), Alabama ($5,418), Arkansas ($5,789) and Mississippi ($5,822).
    States with the highest average teacher salary for 2002-03: California ($56,283), Connecticut ($55,367) and New Jersey ($54,158). New York's "average" is really a median, as the report notes. It is reported as being $53,017, which is $7,126 or 15.5% above the national average. The median salary greatly understates NY's average. See, below.
    Lowest average teacher salary for 2002-03: South Dakota ($32,416), North Dakota ($33,869) and Mississippi ($34,555).
    Average teacher salaries declined in 18 states over the past 10 years in real, inflation-adjusted dollars. The largest declines were Alaska (-16.6%), Connecticut (-10.3%), Kansas (-9.9%), New York (-7.7%),
    Wisconsin (-6.7%) and Vermont (-6.7%). Declines in average salaries are often caused a disproportionately large number of teacher retirements. What we need to know, but the NEA doesn't report, is the average number of years teaching experience in 1993 and 2003 to see whether the decline is due to a relatively younger teaching staff. When factoring in health insurance, it appears that Alaska is the only possible candidate for a real decline in teacher compensation. But Alaska was #1 in teacher salaries for a while and backing off increases may have been an appropriate adjustment in the state's opinion. In New York's case, the data are simply wrong. See, below.

    First: THE TRUTH ABOUT NY TEACHER SALARIES
    The data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics can be found here.

    AVERAGE TEACHER SALARIES: TOP 5 STATES
    State NEA Avg. 2002-03 Salary NEA Rank Bureau of Labor Statistics May 2003 BLS Rank
    California $56,283 1 $55,500 3
    Connecticut $55,367 2 $55,030 4
    New Jersey $54,158 3 $56,560 2
    Michigan $53,563 4 $50,510 5
    New York $53,017 5 $61,420 1

    The BLS number is the highest average salary earned
    by teachers in one of four groups: kindergarten, elementary,
    middle school or high school.

    Now, I ask you, who are you going to believe is accurately reporting New York's average teacher salaries, the NEA or the BLS?

    The use of NY's median teacher salary rather than the average is an outright, intentional deception by the NEA designed to make NY teacher salaries look lower than they are. Why would the NEA want to do that? Because the NEA wants to make teacher salaries look as small as possible to create as much political leverage as possible to raise them.

    Compared to the $45,891 national average teacher salary reported by the NEA, according to BLS data, NY teachers earn average salaries (excluding benefits) that exceed the national average by $15,500 or 33.8%! When you add health insurance and pension (excluding Social Security) to salaries plus "add-ons", the average NY teacher is being paid an average of $66.71 an hour over a 30-year career. If you exclude the pension, the hourly rate is $45.56. If you then exclude health insurance, leaving only salary and add-ons, the hourly rate is $37.73. Over 40% of NY teacher total compensation is paid in benefits.

    S-G teachers will earn an average of $57,133 in salary over a 30-year career and $59,486 over a 35-year career. When you consider that NYC's living costs are much higher than ours and that NYC's teacher salaries inflate NY's average, S-G teachers are doing quite well and better than NYC's teachers when adjusted for living costs.

    Also, note that S-G's average is above the average teacher salary for every other state in the nation.

    Second: Students per teacher
    New York has an average of 12.6 students per teacher. Only two states have a lower student/teacher ratio. The national average is 15.7.

    So, with more teachers for students than almost every other state, the highest teacher salaries and the highest spending per pupil, how does New York do on The Nation's Report Card? About average. Money is not NY's problem, despite what the Court of Appeals & CFE says. This state is being bullied by institutionalized bandits.

    What are we getting for our money? The only thing we are getting for certain is more powerful teachers unions who want more money for their members. See, e.g., TEACHERS UNION COURTS ALBANY $$.

    Third: The NEA Press Release
    Before leaving this topic, consider what the NEA said in its press release.
    Investments in public schools are not keeping pace with the needs of our children, according to an education funding report released today by the National Education Association (NEA).

    [A]nnual school revenues and spending are stagnant.

    That's what it said. Did you see the numbers, above? Per-pupil spending is up 4.6% for 2002-03 and 3.6% for 2003-04. That's what the NEA calls "stagnant."

    These people simply can't be trusted. Yet, the national media will mindlessly quote from the NEA report despite its biased self-interests. It's ridiculous.
    ============================
    There you are, New Yorkers. 5+ percent increases--among the highest I've seen anywhere in the nation.
    ============================
    Now, despite NY's lowly ranking of #6 in this table, average teacher salaries in NY are the highest in the nation, exceeding the national average by 34%. This is based on unbiased data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
    ===========================
    Buffalo teachers helped to create the conditions requiring state control board intervention by going on two illegal strikes in 2000 and coercing the school district to grant salary increases well above the inflation rate that it couldn't afford.
    ===========================
    You want to know why NY spends more for education than any state in the nation? This is why.

    Teachers will also be eligible for dental and vision cost reimbursement of up to $500, an increase from $300 in the last contract.
    Union members will be paying more for prescription drugs than they did in the prior contract.
    The co-pay for prescriptions was $2 for generic, non-generic and mail order drugs in the earlier contract.
    Now, teachers will have to pay $2 for generic, $5 for nongeneric and $10 for mail order pharmaceuticals.
    =========================
    District adds 10,000 reasons to retire

    The Lackawanna School District has sweetened its retirement incentive for teachers to $20,000, and officials already have had a few nibbles.

    These retirement bonuses have to end. Next year teachers won't retire until the offer is $30,000. The next year it will take $40,000. Economic theory suggests that that teachers will start declining to retire until retirement bonuses equal the total savings the district expects minus $1. Retirement bonuses, euphemistically called "incentives," are bad public policy.

    And retirement bonuses are a way for teachers to pocket some of that savings without doing any work. Retirement bonuses decrease savings, which are typically overestimated by making poor assumptions about when teachers would have retired without the bonuses. Moreover, a system of bonuses simply encourages teachers to work more years when bonuses aren't offered, so they can wait for the next cycle of bonuses. In the long run, school districts will spend more money than they would have otherwise, which is exactly why teachers unions approve of "retirement incentives" as a way to "cut" costs by increasing them.
    Short-run thinking with no concern for long-run consequences. Another consequence of retirement bonuses is it takes the pressure off school boards to better control the size of compensation increases. That just puts the boards in the position of having to offer even more retirement bonuses. It's a vicious circle of escalating costs, which, as I said, is why teachers approve of it.

    Retirement incentives have been offered by several Western New York school districts in recent years, including $30,000 offered by the Kenmore-Town of Tonawanda School District last year.
    I haven't seen co-pays for prescriptions that low for 5 years!
    =========================
    At least Upstate's teachers are well paid
    Earlier this week, a Brookings Institution report told Upstate residents that they tend to earn less than people in other states, even when education and other factors are similar. A sharp-eyed reader of ours (perhaps bleary-eyed, too, after checking the report's fine print) pointed out one exception to the rule: teachers in Upstate New York are paid quite well, thank you.

    "School teachers ... earned about 17 percent more per hour in Upstate than the national average," the Brookings report finds. Not only do we pay teachers well, we hire more of them -- 15 to 31 percent more, proportionally, than the national average. See pages 6 and 7 of the report for details.

    New York State United Teachers, the statewide teachers union, spent more on lobbying in 2003 than any other organization except the hospital workers union, according to the state Lobbying Commission.

    The AFT and UFT spent a combined $3.3 million in lobbying in 2003. That's about $10 per NY educator. With salaries 17% above the national average compared to salaries 4% below the national average for the rest of upstate workers, that's a tremendous return on 10 buck investment. NY politicians are such easy shakedowns.
    ========================
    Teacher pensions are a defined benefit, based on employees' years of work and an average of the three highest years of salary.

    If a teacher with 30 years on the job had a final average salary of $65,000, the annual pension would be $29,000.

    In New York, the annual pension would be $39,000 free from state income taxes, plus Social Security benefits starting around age 66.
    ======================
    Buffalo teachers currently earn $80,000 at the top. They contribute little to the cost of their health insurance.
    ************************
    The average teacher in Florida earned a salary of $39,601 last year, and benefits and extra pay pushed the average income to nearly $50,000, a legislative study released Friday reported.
    ************************
    Oklahoma's average teacher salary is $34,877, well below the regional average of $38,527. Every other state in Oklahoma's seven-state region -- Arkansas, Colorado, Kansas, Missouri, New Mexico and Texas -- pays teachers a higher average salary.
    *************************
    Thank you, Star Tribune! In New York, teachers make more than some physicians on an hourly basis.
    ************************
    You want to know why New York is #1 in spending per pupil? Look no further than the size of these raises. Teachers in other states with much lower salaries are seeing raises that are much smaller. And they are contributing $500 a month to the cost of their health insurance.

    You want to know why public schools need more funding to provided a constitutionally adequate education? The problem is spending, not funding. The problem is relentless, inflation-busting increases in compensation for NY teachers who are already the best paid teachers in the nation.
    =========================
    Careful avet, most liberal's dont want to be confronted with the facts as you have laid them out for us. If you listen to them the problems we have in our public school system can be fixed as long as we are willing to throw more of our tax dollars their way!

    It's disgusting how much we pay these teachers and how little we get in return!

  11. #11
    moadib
    Guest

    Its not a political party thing....and shouldnt be made out that way

    Its not a political party thing....and shouldnt be made out that way

    This is should not be about the Board of Education, State and local School Boards, Teachers or Unions.

    This should be about nothing more than educating our children.

    The problem today is that we are putting money in practically everything except our children and thats why we arent getting any results

    AND SORRY TO SAY, NEITHER REPUBLICANS, DEMOCRATS, CONSERVATIVES OR LIBERALS HAVE A BETTER RECORD OF ADDRESSING THAT FACT

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Cheektowaga
    Posts
    335
    It's not just a union thing, because I live in a union-free district and it's Cashapalooza here. Spending keeps going up per student with test scores that don't (obviously) increase in proportion to the increase in spending. There are teachers still there that taught when I went to school who are as old as dirt and making mega bucks. I'm just waiting for the budget to come out, which will supposedly be available by the 25th of this month.
    Linda
    ==========================

    I don't want to move, I want to make a difference.

  13. #13
    Member bflonum1fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    South Bflo
    Posts
    2,123
    QUESTION :

    ARE LIBERALS, SOCIALISTS & UNIONS THE REASON FOR OUR FAILED SCHOOLS?

    ANSWER : YES
    It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required. (Sir Winston Churchill)

  14. #14
    Member kristop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Begins with S between Eggertsville and Williamsville
    Posts
    405
    Originally posted by bflonum1fan
    QUESTION :

    ARE LIBERALS, SOCIALISTS & UNIONS THE REASON FOR OUR FAILED SCHOOLS?

    ANSWER : YES
    Then why do schools work in the burbs?

    It is easy to blame the teachers and unions.....

    But the basis of any quality education starts at HOME.....

    Why do the city schools fail?

    You try to make the reason so easy......

    Why does City Honors excel?

    Look for the real answers....
    Christopher Byrd
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    http://indabuff.com
    http://broadwayfillmorealive.org

  15. #15
    Member bflonum1fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    South Bflo
    Posts
    2,123
    I didn't start this question, just quoted moadlib :

    Here's the full text :

    ARE LIBERALS, SOCIALISTS & UNIONS THE REASON FOR OUR FAILED SCHOOLS?

    I just read an interesting statistic about our schools
    -We are spending more money on non-teaching resources like teachers aids, substitute teachers, principles, guidance counselors, counselors, nurses, janitors, school board administration........than we are on teaching

    -We are spending more money on paperwork and beaurocratic administration that we are on teaching

    -We cant keep schools open for sports or after school activities because of janitorial union contracts

    -We are spending more time teaching sex education, race relations, tolerance, environment, etc....than we are teaching all the sciences, mathmatics, literature, art, music, athletics, trades, etc.

    -We arent disciplining kids in school or teaching them respect for authority.

    There are some liberal viewpoints that I support and respect but lets face facts, liberals dominate the educational profession and our schools are miserable failures compared to private schools that dont buy into any of this liberal crap or teachers union crap.

    Schools are there for Kids not to employ beaurocrats
    We spend more on retirement benefits in Bflo School District than on teachers salaries. NYS teachers are highest paid in the nation. No taxes on retirement pay. They don't work overtime unless paid. They work less than 9 months a year. I'd say they are on the gravy train.
    It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required. (Sir Winston Churchill)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •