Unions

[Loose]

I'm wondering, why do government workers need Unions?

There are seven or eight of them involved with our budget crisis. Who do they have to negotiate with? Giambra? The legislature? This is akin to the Mafia!!! What does the County Executive or the Legislature care how many government workers there are or much money they make, how many PAID holidays they have, how big of a pension they get, the sweet health care plans and sick days they get, the vacations, company cars, phones, expense accounts ect. ect. ect.? What do they care, what do they have to lose? It's not their money!!!! Its ours!! The tax payers. Giambra, the legislature and all 10,000 county workers are ALL ON THE SAME TEAM!!!!!!

I have been employed all my life with a unionized company. Don't get me wrong they can be very beneficial. Especially when you have corporate greed to the extent that we have been seeing it lately throughout the private sector. Unions are necessary in these arena's because the fat cat CEO's will screw the workers six ways from Sunday so as to better themselves and their pocketbooks. These are profit making entities.

BUT, government is not! My unionized corporation has never given us twelve paid holidays. This is ridiculous. And the pension accounts we the tax payers are funding for all these workers has to be astronomical. I say radical change MUST take place. Government is no place for unions. These union officials are criminals and they know it. Just look at how sheepish they act. They know they are screwing John Q. Public to the hilt. WE THE TAX PAYERS ARE THE ONES WHO NEED A UNION!!!!!!! Where are all the lawyers who are supposed to be looking out for us the citizens? Yea I know, they're all out chasing ambulances. Looking for a fat lawsuit to make themselves rich. There's no money representing John Q. We'll just keep advertising on TV encouraging John to sue, sue, sue. Disgusting! I guess we can thank Kerry's sidekick Edwards for that crap.

Also Giambra, Frank Clark, Patrick Gallivan, some of the legislature along with Nancy Naples are all turning into profession criminals themselves. Frank Clark reminds me of a spoiled little kid acting up in a supermarket. He ought to be the first one gone. He's very easily replaced. Prima donna.

Before his little siesta Giambra had the attitude of "how dare they tell me what to do. Who do they, (the tax payers) think they are!" He had this 'me/us against them' attitude, rather than a humble 'servant of the people' attitude. This is the reoccurring theme of all politicians in NYS. They have this high and mighty opinion of themselves. They believe they are god and that we are to bow before their every decision because they know better than we do.

Have you noticed the one-eighty Giambra has done since his siesta? He now sees how our revolt is gonna be just what the doctor ordered for his restructuring of WNY government. And guess who he sees running the new Empire? You guessed it, none other than Mr. Wonderful himself 'Slick Joel'.

[moadib]

i think the purpose of civil service unions was to protect them from party/patronage

so that the average civil service worker doesnt get fired so that a candidate can repay an election worker or an election favor with a patronage job

or so a civil service employee cant be bullied into cooking the public books to oppose political agendas

or so a civil service employee cant be bullied into spying or intimidating private citizens to satisfy a political agenda....

ETC

ALL OF WHICH I THINK IS REASONABLE NO ONE SHOULD BE FORCED TO WORK IN AN UNSAFE ENVIRONMENT OR SUFFER DISCRIMINATION.

HOWEVER, THAT BEING SAID A SCHOOL SYSTEM, A MUNICIPALITY, A COUNTY, A STATE OR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT BE PUSHED INTO BANKRUPTCY, THEIR PRIMINARY MISSION OF PROVIDING A SERVICE SHOULD NEVER TAKE PRIORITY OVER A EMPLOYEES.

RIGHT NOW WE SPEND MORE MONEY ON THE SCHOOL BOARD, SCHOOL ADMINISTRATION, SCHOOL JANITORIAL SERVICES & MAINTENANCE THAN WE DO ON EDUCATING CHILDREN. CIVIL SERVICE SALARIES ARE NOW MORE IMPORTANT THAN SCHOOL ATHLETICS, MUSIC, ART AND MANY OTHER ACADEMICS.

RIGHT NOW WE SPEND MORE MONEY ON ADMINISTRATION AND DUPLICITIVE STAFFING THAN WE DO ON PROVIDING SERVICES.

IN SHORT, WE ARE IN THE BUSINESS OF BEING THE EMPLOYER OF LAST RESORT RATHER THAN BEING A SERVICE PROVIDER.

CHECK OUT THIS NYS WEBSITE BASED OUT OF SYRACUSE
www.freenys.org

[WNYresident]

from freenys.org

Although New Yorkers may enjoy the fruits of democracy at the federal and local levels, at the state level we face the rule of three. This concentration of power, as with almost all concentration of power, over time yields arrogance, corruption, sloth, and ineptness. Upstate NY voters are disgusted with their state government, but are puzzled what to do about it. Meaningful data on Upstate New York’s performance relative to other states is not regularly reported. The impression that our government representatives are such nice, helpful people may cause us to believe they are doing the best they can.

After some thought and research, I was able to construct, what might be called the State After-Tax Income Index. Using state per capita income data, Upstate NY per capita income data, and federal, state, and local tax information, I was constructed an excellent measure to see how Upstate NY is performing relative to other states.



The State After-Tax Income Index is simply what people of a state earn on a per capita basis after they pay federal, state, and local taxes relative to the US average. An index below 100 means people in a state have less to spend than the national average and a reading over 100 means they have more to spend. The State After-Tax Income Index is a great predictor of which states will grow and which will decline. It is also an excellent measure to evaluate the effectiveness of state governments. The following table shows the index for 5 states and Upstate NY for the years 1990, 2000, and 2002. The table also lists the state’s 1990–2000 change in population.





State After-Tax Income Index



1990
2000
1990-2000
2002




% Population Change








Delaware
108
108
18%
109

Massachusetts
120
124
6%
124

Minnesota
99
107
12%
109

New Hampshire
110
114
11%
113

West Virginia
76
77
1%
79

Upstate New York
90
86
1%
84




Data Sources include www.infoplease.com, www.taxfoundation.org, and www.brookings.edu.



The table shows Delaware’s After-Tax Per Capita Income to be 108% of the national average in 1990 and 109% in 2002. Delaware is a well-led state. It is no surprise its population grew 18% in the 1990’s. Massachusetts, with an index of 120 in 1990 and 124 in 2000, has high and improving After-Tax incomes. Minnesota with an index of 99 in 1990 and 109 in 2002, and New Hampshire with an index of 110 in 1990 and 113 in 2002, improved their After-Tax incomes and experienced significant population growth in the 1990’s. Both Minnesota and New Hampshire accomplished this growth despite having cold northern climates. West Virginia’s index is 79, which is one of the lowest of all of the 50 states. Its per capita After-Tax income is 21% below the national average.



After-Tax incomes in Upstate NY were 90% of the national average in 1990, 86% in 2000, and 84% of the national average in 2002. Upstate NY is a sinking ship. Incomes that were once only 10% below the national average are now 16% below it. Given the great educational resources, excellent workforce, tremendous infrastructure, and New York’s economic base of the 1960’s, Upstate NY’s After-Tax incomes should be well above the national average. In the last 30 years, our state government has completely squandered one of the greatest economies in the country, as well as all of our livelihoods.



In a country where there are no barriers to moving, talent and capital tend to move to where they earn the highest return. As talent and capital move into an area, people’s standards of living increase. As the talent and capital leave an area, people’s standard of living and the economic base on which taxes are assessed declines. Until the leadership in NYS turns the upstate ship around and dramatically improves our After-Tax incomes, voters might want to use the following guideline to decide for whom to vote.



When the index for Upstate NY is above 110 and stays the same or increases each year, then vote for the incumbent governor and the candidates in a house’s majority party. When the index is below 110 and fails to increase at least 1% each year, vote for candidates challenging the incumbent governor, as well as the candidates who are in a house’s minority party.




Recessions do not affect this voting rule of thumb as the index measures how Upstate NY incomes are doing relative to the national average. All incomes decline in a recession. The index only changes as Upstate NY does better or worse relative to the nation as a whole.



So why is the State After-Tax Income Index a good basis to determine how one votes? Because, if After-Tax per capita income is high or increasing:



1) There will be fewer unemployed people,

2) Our homes and property will appreciate more,

3) Schools districts will have greater tax revenues,

4) Health insurance will be affordable to more people,

5) College will be affordable to more people,

6) There will be more money available for the arts from thriving businesses,

7) Businesses will have more money available for charities,

8) There will be additional funds invested in research and development,

9) Government will take proportionally less from people and better fund its agencies,

10) Our friends will be less likely to move away,

11) Our children will be able to find high paying jobs locally,

12) Our grandchildren will be more apt to live near us,

13) A smaller proportion of the population will be retired, and

14) There will be greater state and local tax revenue to pay for Medicare.



The State After-Tax Income Index is also a good way to determine how to vote as representatives will spend less time raising money for reelection and subject us to fewer campaign ads. Winning office will be less about image and more about raising people’s After-Tax incomes.

To understand the effects of the State’s policies that have caused Upstate NY After-Tax income to fall to 84% of the national average rather than grow to 100% of the national average, consider the following. According to the IRS tax tables and the Tax Foundation, an Upstate NY family earning $80,000 per year pays $9,500 in federal taxes and $10,300 in state and local taxes. After paying these taxes, the family has $60,200 to spend and/or save. Because of Upstate NY’s high state and local taxes and the exodus of so many employers from the state, a similar family doing the same work earns $90,000 per year in most other states. This family pays $12,000 in federal taxes and $9,000 in state and local taxes, and has $69,000 to spend after paying their taxes. The Upstate NY family has $8,800 less to spend each year than a comparable family in other states. Over a forty-year career, this amounts to $350,000. Were the out-of-state family to invest its additional $8,800 each year, and earn 5% a year on the savings, the difference in After-Tax income would grow to over a million dollars in forty years.

The concentration of power and lack of democracy matter in New York because they have led to a series of laws and policies that lower all of our standards of living. The NY State Legislature’s policies have made Workers’ Compensation, Health Insurance, Energy, and Sales, Income and Property Taxes so much higher than any other state that we have the poorest business climate in the country. In the nineties, the US added 37% more high skilled manufacturing jobs, while New York lost 14% of the ones it had. In the last 14 years, Upstate New York lost 530,000 high paying manufacturing jobs. Upstate NY After-Tax incomes are now 16% below the national average.

In the last seven years, the Governor, Majority Leader, and Speaker skirted the NYS Constitution, had state public authorities borrow over $1 billion dollars, and provided representatives supportive of their agendas hundreds of thousands of dollars to distribute to projects in the representatives’ districts. The majority in the senate and assembly has not changed in 30 years. Calculating statisticians draw voting districts to optimize a majority’s hold on power. The Majority Leader and Speaker appoint committee chairs, hire their staffs, set committee and member staff budgets, distribute lulus, and decide which bills are brought to vote. They distribute hundreds of thousands of dollars of state campaign dollars to majority members who face competition. In this manner, the leadership coerces a majority of our representatives to support their personal agendas and a few special interests.

Each year in office, incumbents raise and accumulate thousands of dollars to deter challengers. One out of three incumbents runs unopposed. Incumbents win their races 99% of the time. It is no surprise that the Center for Democracy ranked the New York State government the least democratic of all 50 states.



Democracy at its best follows a written constitution and set of written rules, divides and checks power, fosters competition for representation, and creates a transparent forum for the competition of ideas, formulation of laws, and conduct of business. The competition inherent with democracy fosters excellence. The genius of a well working democracy is that all interests are represented and no interest is over-represented. In short, democracy, more than any other form of government, delivers the greatest good for the greatest number. Almost without exception, democracy delivers throughout the world the highest standards of living and quality of life.



For Upstate NY incomes to improve, all upstate citizens must stand together and encourage the NYS Senate and Assembly members to do the right thing. In late December, prior to the legislature’s first session in January when each house votes on the rules under which it will operate, we need to send Senate Majority Leader Bruno, Assembly Speaker Silver, and each of our NYS Senate and Assembly representatives the following message. (See FreeNYS.org to download the letter and for senators’ and assembly members’ emails, phone numbers, and addresses.)

Dear

All New Yorkers know the NYS Senate and Assembly has been the most dysfunctional legislature in the country. The New York Brennan Center for Justice studied the problem and developed 17 common sense rule reforms for each house to pass during their opening session. Several of my friends and I request that you help enact all 17 rule reforms, not 3 of them, not 12 of them, but all 17 of them.



My friends and I will be watching the Upstate NY After-Tax Income Index. We know that Upstate NY After-Tax Incomes are now 16% below the national average. For candidates in the majority party of each house to earn our votes, Upstate NY After-Tax Income relative to the US average must gain at least 1% per year. If this is not the case, we will not vote for candidates of the majority party in their respective houses.



Also, we request that you pass Voter Initiative. The NYS Senate has already passed a bill that would enact Voter Initiative and Governor Pataki has indicated he would sign the bill.



We recognize that in some states the bar to place an initiative before the voters is too low and in some states a little high. We would ask for Voter Initiative with a moderate level of difficulty for groups to put policies before the voters. The very able Brennan Center for Justice could research and recommend a Voter Initiative Law.



Please avoid the condescending thought that voters of New York will approve initiatives counterproductive to their interests. We remind you that the NYS Senate’s and Assembly’s record of looking out for the average citizen is atrocious, as evidenced by the low Upstate NY After-Tax income, as well as the loss of 530,000 excellent paying jobs the last 14 years. Democracy works the world over; and direct democracy, which is what Voter Initiative is, works the best of all types of democracy.



Sincerely,





P.S. New York State leadership’s poor handling of the funding of inner city schools is the latest of a thousand examples of the need for change in Albany.

Voting by the State After-Tax Income Index will force lawmakers to serve honestly the interests of all New York citizens. The state leadership cannot insidiously raise registration fees, levy hidden taxes on energy and other business inputs, or pass mandates that local governments must fund, as the State After-Tax Income Index will capture their every move. The state leaders cannot act like warring bullies on an elementary playground and remain in office long. The state leaders will have to create an environment that attracts and retains all businesses rather than rescue a politically supportive few. Voting by the index will force lawmakers to serve honestly the interests of all New York citizens or face removal from office.

[LHardy]

WNYres:
These are the URLs' that I think we should library for future research. What do you think? We can encourage all to drag their URLs' to the Administration, lucky you, for placement in an appropriate catalog. Stop me if I'm getting carried away!

[WNYresident]

Maybe we can assign someone as the keeper of the links. There are a lot of good informational links all thoughout the site.

[moadib]

Actually I would like to see 4 links added (two information only)

I would like to see a link on Buffalo Business

I would like to see a link on Transportation (light rail, port, air, rail, highway, intermodal)

I would like to see all those URLS that people could visit to educate themselves on Buffalo and WNY

Lastly, I would like to see CONTACT INFORMATION which I have seen on a couple of other sites. If you want change, then we should just be able to look up the contact information for whatever agency, representative, business, volunteer organization, etc that is being discussed. I SAW THIS ON OTHER SITES AND THOUGHT IT WAS ONE OF THEIR BEST FEATURES BECAUSE I COULD POST AND THEN CALL OR EMAIL MY SUPPORT OR OPPOSITION.

ITS ONE THING TO DROP LITTLE TURD POSTINGS THAT DISAPPEAR AFTER A MONTH OR SO, BUT ITS QUITE ANOTHER THING TO MAKE A POST AND ASK PEOPLE TO JOIN, TO CALL, TO WRITE, TO VOTE, TO DONATE, PARTICIPATE, ETC.

THERES ALOT OF THINGS I DISAGREE WITH BUT PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO THEIR OWN OPINIONS...I JUST HOPE THAT THE COMMON ELEMENT IS OUR LOVE FOR OUR FAMILIES, OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR GREAT CITY.

[havemercy7]

The politicians are bought and paid for by unions and special interest groups. They give them campaign money and the union leaders get the union employees to vote for them. Therefore they are raising their own voter's so they do not have to contend with us the taxpayers who would not approve of all the crooked legislation that they put forward. This State is corrupt and if you plan to vote for Spitzer for Governor you will be making a big mistake cause he is also bought and paid for. He goes after the corporations for wrong doing but does not go after the politicians. The worst of the worst is Sheldon Silver he loves medicaid.

[citymouse]

The Union leaders certainley did not back Masiello or Giambra the last two times either of them ran.
Eight years for tony and five for Joel were they owed the unions nothing but contempt. That is the truth and it contrdicts what you are saying.
They did not back Naples and in the last race for gov they backed Carl Mcall.
So tell me again about this "partnership" that controlls the politicians.

[citymouse]

Also, your anti-union mostly republican politicians on all levels of goverment from washington to the local villages, are just as much influenced by special intrests groups.
Priscription drug lobbies, oil lobbies, railroad lobbies, and all kinds of anti labor big business groups, these groups out spen the labor groups like five to one.
They have actually been more effective with thier anti-worker legislation in the past few years as well.
But I suppose thats O.K.

[Curmudgeon]

Also, your anti-union mostly republican politicians on all levels of goverment from washington to the local villages, are just as much influenced by special intrests groups.

At least we have the option of shopping around if we don't care for a particular corporate entity.

When it comes to civil service unions, the only option available to the consumer is to move away from the geographical area the union has a stranglehold on. Apprently, that is what many people and businesses in WNY are doing.

[havemercy7]

What I said was the three stooges in Albany are all bought and paid for by unions and special interest groups. I don't care if they are Republican or Democrat.....

[citymouse]

Originally posted by Curmudgeon
At least we have the option of shopping around if we don't care for a particular corporate entity.

When it comes to civil service unions, the only option available to the consumer is to move away from the geographical area the union has a stranglehold on. Apprently, that is what many people and businesses in WNY are doing.

Yes, big difference between Moble and Sunoco. Shop all you want.
Same with getting your prescriptions filled at rite aid or walgreens.

Well if moving is your only option and things here are so bad, than quite bitching and move.

[Curmudgeon]

Well if moving is your only option and things here are so bad, than quite bitching and move.

Careful what you wish for: The pool of private-sector workers your ilk feed off of is already dwindling at an alarming rate. That's why you have a "revenue" problem. You're a parasite that is killing your host - the local economy. If you want to hasten your demise, then I suggest that you adopt that slogan come election time".

"If things are so bad, then quit bitching and move!".

Yes, it's brilliant!

[Deerhunter]

For people leaving the County ? Another question, how can people who live in this depressed area, where there are no good jobs , afford property taxes in the range of 10 to 20 thousand ? I just looked at a house off of 20A, in OP, where the property taxes were 17,000 a yr. And there are more Cul-de-sacs going up in the same price range. Whoever is buying these houses must have a great Union, thats all I can figure. I would like to know how many people in the mentioned neighborhood are Union members ? Maybe I'll go out to Spaulding Lake , and knock on some doors to find out what Union they belong to, cause I want to join.

[Curmudgeon]

what is the "alarming" rate ?

25% of all people 18-30 left WNY 1990-2000. I'd call that "alarming".

Whoever is buying these houses must have a great Union, thats all I can figure. I would like to know how many people in the mentioned neighborhood are Union members ? Maybe I'll go out to Spaulding Lake , and knock on some doors to find out what Union they belong to, cause I want to join.

Why don't you knock on a couple of doors and ask them? How stupid! You'll probably find doctors, entrepenuers, and other super-acheivers behind them. If you want to live in Spaulding Lake, go to medical school or put your nut on the line and start your own business. Provide a skill of value that the free market demands and you'll be justly rewarded! Silly.....