Save South Buffalo Libraries

[Unregistered]

After attending three public meetings, I have come to the conclusion that the public is being coaxed into a proposal of a “new library” in a community that uses and enjoys the successful Dudley and Cazenovia Branch Libraries. When speaking to hundreds of residents in front of Dudley, Cazenovia and at community functions around South Buffalo, one thing became evident to me. Most of South Buffalo residents are not aware that this plan would close their local neighborhood libraries. Even at the last community meeting, many still had no opinion one way or another. No information was given out at any of the three meetings, except the fact that the library would be 12,000 square feet and cost $4,000,000 or “whatever it takes” to get it done.

The need for more meeting space was given as one of the reasons we would want a new building. The Cazenovia branch has a meeting room that was designed for 84 people (1250 sq. feet), but is rarely used. It is located in the basement area, and was designed for this use in the original design. Yes, the Cazenovia branch needs ADA handicap access. The Council Member Mrs. Martino promised to find the funding for ramps and an elevator at the public meeting held by library officials at Cazenovia in 2000. I say we should save millions of taxpayer dollars and spend just what is needed to update Cazenovia to ADA standards, and budget what is needed at Dudley. It really would only take a little to achieve a lot.

The Cazenovia library has ample street parking. I counted parking for 20 cars along the Parkway right next to it. Please remember that this branch is in a Park, and most residents love walking to this facility. I observed about 9 out of 10 patrons walked to the Dudley and Cazenovia Libraries A new library would eliminate this type of access to the Library System, in two very distinct South Buffalo Neighborhoods. Dudley has a parking lot for 23
vehicles as well as street parking.

The library officials and politicians keep talking about new technology at the public forums. The Cazenovia and Dudley have the latest computers. Most times they are readily available. Access to computers and services would be eliminated, because the Library would be out of reach to many. In 2000 most people opposed the big plan, because they favored their neighborhood libraries. Many South Buffalo residents were not aware of the recent meetings that were held by the Buffalo & Erie County Library, and hosted by Council Member Martino and County Legislator Mark Schroder. I attended all 3 meetings and got the impression that the plan was lacking any real consideration from those who are opposed.

A new petition drive has started, and shows that most library patrons in South Buffalo oppose this plan. I would like to mention that Hundreds of patrons I personally spoke to at the Cazenovia and Dudley branches were not aware of this revisited plan. Many thought that we already decided as a community in 2000. Most like their neighborhood library and say leave it alone. A Museum at Cazenovia would only serve us once or twice a year. In addition, no major bookstore has expressed any interest in the Dudley location. Residents fear empty buildings that have been an eyesore for years. The Police station on Seneca Street and the Park Casino are prime examples.

All the new suburban branches were replaced 1 for 1 as well. The 2 for 1 would take away too much from the community. Library proposals were designed to be a system where the community tells them what they want. The new plan is designed by the County Executive to become policy. We the residents didn't go to the officials and ask for this. The people spoke already when they came to 22 BECPL meetings when 22 libraries were threatened with elimination. Well over 10,000 citizens signed the petition in the county. The new petition has netted over to 1,000 signatures. This new petition drive is just in South Buffalo, so far. It may expand as people all over the county start to realize that they have to fight to keep their libraries open again.

[WNYresident]

But you are missing the point, there's a developer that wants to profit from building a new library. They don't care that we don't need one.

You should hold your ground and fight. If your community does not want one library but the two smallers ones organize your people now.

Can you get the operating cost for the two libraries? We can compare the running cost compared to the new cost of what they want to build minus $4,000,000 they want to spend.

You know are leaders are not the brightest bulbs in the pack. Just look around you, proof is everywhere.

[Unregistered]

I have a feeling that these leaders just want a ribbon cutting. Now that the folks in the Dudley area are real upset about losing services, I'm sure they will return the favor by voting the dim bulbs out of office.

[buffalofamily]

At first when I heard about a new Library in South Buffalo, I was in favor, but after attend three informal meetings I am opposed!

The politicians avoided giving any real answers or even letting the public give any imput into this process. They showed a fancy video of the Clarence Library. They are not proposing anything near what the Clarence is. They are stating that we need new "technology", when it's a fact that all the libraries get the new computers and programs system wide!

A is a group that has over 1,250 petition signatures against this plan, and most most of my friends and neighbors don't like the idea either. Why aren't we given a choice? Why are we being ignored?

HOW DID ONE MEETING TO GUAGE INTEREST IN THE COMMUNITY BECOME A FORMAL MEETING??? We were asked by a Library Board Member if we wanted to come back for another meeting to get more information. NO REAL INFORMATION WAS AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC AT THE FIRST INFORMAL MEETING!

HOW DID THE SECONED MEETING (held during a snowstorm when everything else in WNY was cancelled) BECOME THE BASIS FOR THIS AWFUL DECISION (based on the politicians friends and supporters that did attend) ??? NO NEW INFORMATION WAS GIVEN OTHER THAN A PROMISE OF "$4,000,000 or whatever it takes".

At the last informal meeting (WRONG ADDRESS WAS GIVEN TO THE PUBLIC FOR THE THIRD MEETING LOCATION BY THE LIBRARY OFFICIALS IN FLIERS AND PRESS) some were in favor, some were opposed and most weren't sure either way on weather they wanted a change in services! SOME RESIDENTS QUESTIONS WERE IGNORED AND NO INFORMATION GIVEN TO THE PUBLIC!!!

Something is wrong with this situation. I think an investigation is in order. Maybe the media should look at the facts from both sides of this issue. So far, the media has ignored the community and sided with the politicians and Library board!

Buffalo Family

[watchdog]

[/B]

Something is wrong with this situation. I think an investigation is in order. Maybe the media should look at the facts from both sides of this issue. So far, the media has ignored the community and sided with the politicians and Library board!

Buffalo Family [/B]

Sounds interesting...

Can you please contact me about your Issue...I am intrested in talking to too you...

buffalowatchdog@aol.com

[Unregistered]

Didn't the entire Western New Your community tell the B&ECPL to take this plan and stick it in 2000. It sounds like they are using the same plan but one neighborhood at a time, so the publicity stays quiet.

To me, the real issue is access to these vital services. The children and seniors in the Dudley Library South Park Ave. area will be unable to walk to the Seneca Street area. Many adults don't have transportation in the area as well. Most students are already on busses just to get to and from school, due to the lack of neighborhood schools. Working families are not going to want to make a road trip just to get to the library.

This is a prime example of how the politicians are ruining Buffalo.

[buffalofamily]

Here is what the Library found out after 22 community meetings in 2000.What the Public Said:
Community Meetings Conclude

Nearly 2,000 citizens attended 22 public meetings held across Erie County from January through May to discuss B&ECPL’s proposed strategic plan. Below are the opinions expressed most frequently by those who attended the meetings or by those who submitted written comments.

"DON’T CLOSE MY LIBRARY!"
This theme was repeated at every meeting.

QUALITY OF LIFE
Most attendees are already upset about the loss of a post office, police station, bank or supermarket and consider the loss of a library further erosion of the vitality of their community.

ACCESS
People want convenience and the option of walking to the library if they choose.

TRANSPORTATION
Parking does not appear to be as critical an issue in the city as it is in the suburbs and rural areas. Proximity to public transportation is a major factor, but schedules may need to be changed to accommodate library use after school and in the evening. Many asserted that: "A new library doesn’t serve us if we can’t get to it."

NEW CONSTRUCTION QUESTIONS
Concerns were raised about the source of funding for new library construction and the ownership and location of new buildings. A critical issue is the fate of empty structures should new libraries be built since every vacant building contributes to neighborhood blight.

RETROFIT
Instead of building new, model libraries and abandoning the old ones, many advocate retrofitting wherever possible.

SIZE
"Sometimes smaller is better," many claim. The overwhelming majority of meeting attendees are unwilling to sacrifice nearby small libraries for a new larger library that is farther away.

TAXES
Most who attended expressed a willingness to pay more for library services, but this is not universal as some raised concerns about increased taxes.

A DONE DEAL
Many believed cost savings are the impetus for the proposed plan and, despite B&ECPL’s assertions to the contrary, that the changes will be made because the plan is a "done deal."

PUBLIC OFFICIALS
Local officials expressed a commitment to keeping all libraries open and acknowledged the need to improve them, both physically and by providing more hours and services. Several pledged funding to achieve this.

FINE AS IT IS
In general, people believe that the library system is great as it is. "If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!"

This is information provided by the B&ECPL system!

WHY ARE THEY TRYING THIS AGAIN??? If they get away with this it will happen all over WNY.

[Allyssa]

Those in favor of closing down two libraries seem to be working on a multi-level marketing scheme. They keep pushing the “plan” but have not shown any indication of an actual product, aside from a video of the Clarence Branch library and how it compares to the smaller Cazenovia and Dudley. Are we really going to get something just as big and fancy as Clarence? Probably not! Pretty flowers and modern art deco don’t make up for the knowledge that is gained inside a public library of any size. And they have not given me any good reason to feel a “new” library will better the community that I live in.

Furthermore, we are not opposed to a new library. We stand for equal opportunity in library usage for both neighborhoods. The Library Board and politicians aren’t playing a fair game when it comes to serving their communities; they have a responsibility to assist and support their people first and foremost! They should not allow themselves to be taken in on something that isn’t in agreement by the entire community. As many here have mentioned it’s all about the photo-op and ribbon cutting that the politicians want while campaigning for re-election.

It would be a completely different story if these two branches were run-down, poorly maintained and have inadequate employees. That’s not the case; both are highly respectable locations in South Buffalo, both are sufficiently running and both are satisfactory in providing excellent customer service to library patrons.

We have every right in this free country to protest against something we don’t believe in, it says so as Article 1 (ONE) in the United States Constitution… {Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances}.

We, whom are opposed, are not the “bad” people in all of this just because we won’t give-in to their consolidation proposal. We want to take a stand and them know that public libraries belong to the people and not the politicians.

Thank you,
Allyssa (South Buffalo)

[WNYresident]

Well we can't sit on are butts anymore seeing they will just do what ever they want to do.

The reason i started this message board is what is happening around WNY. The residents are not getting what they want, the politicians are just taking what they want.

I think it's time you really group up the anti-new Library people and get started. You know that $4,000,000 they will take from us can be used better else where in the community. Or a new idea, just don't spend it in the first place.

[Unregistered]

The library issue is a classic example of just what is wrong with Western New York. The consultants came in and said that the library system is hemmoraging money and is incredibly wasteful becase of inefficiencies, building maintainence, etc..
What does everyone say? Don't close MY library! Heaven forbid if we change anything. I'm sure you all have good reasons for wanting to keep your corner library. And somebody else has their good reason for not merging their police department with the county. And somebody else has a good reason for not wanting to privatize certian services. Well, guess what? Your local government is BROKE!!! All your children are moving away! Your property values are declining and your taxes are increasing! Companies are moving out of the region because they are tired of paying the taxes needed to support a bazillion little libraries on every other street corner! It's not enough to say "something is good and we need to save it." You have to say "can we really afford it". Or, if you want to bury your head in the sand and be irresponsible, have a control board come in to do the dirty work for you. It's kind of like blaming the bankruptcy court judge when he takes 2 of your 3 cars away...

[WNYresident]

Acutally you are wrong. Spending $4,000,000 is wrong. showing a saving's 30 years down the line is insane, that's a generation.

Now i don't know the actual cost so i'm arguing a little blind here.

Lets say 2 libaries cost $300,000 a year to run. 4 libarians, 2 assistants and utilities. i wish i had real numbers though..

then 1 big libarary cost $200,000 a year to run seeing you cut perhaps 2 employees. You saved $100,000. Now you spend $4,000,000 to save that $100,000. Big deal. You take $4,000,000 divided by $100,000 and that's 40 years before you save anything. I may be wrong but from the outside that is what is looks like.

Now if we can pamper our local goverment employees with plantium insurance, a few with $30,000 cars, politicians that are over paid for thier duties and patronage idiots, you can let a communty keep it's librarys.

And we do want change, just change what needs changing first.

[Unregistered]

I think we investigate the lottery and OTB and purge the patronage out of there and put the savings into the libraries.

[Unregistered]

"...i wish i had real numbers though.."
Well, you don't.
It's qiute easy to argue a point when you really have no idea what you are talking about. I'm sure it's a lot more complicated than you or I comprehend.
What you DO know is that you really like your library and you hope it doesn't get removed. It's the same game with military base closures - each community lobbies their congressmen to keep their superflourous air base or navy yard when they are no longer needed. It's nothing more than selfish self-interest and nothing more. That's why the feds have the base closure commission - It's all or nothing on their list and the congessmen can't negotiiate individual bases on behalf of their constituants.
Just how much of the library system budget pays for roof repair, inefficient heating and a/c, plumbing repair of all these little old libraries? Do you even know? How much revenue could be generated by the sale of these properties in the process of building fewer and better libraries? I can think of one - Delaware/Hertel - prime retail location on a busy corner lot in the city. Then that propery creates jobs AND property tax revenue! That library is about as useful a third leg. GET RID OF IT!
"...And we do want change, just change what needs changing first..."
You (and others like you) are the reason why Buffalo is in the sorry state it is in. If you asked EVERYONE what doesn't need to changed, you would get a list of EVERYTHING and nothing would change at all. One mans "worthy cause" is another mans "selfish self-interest".
It's a lot easier to "blame namelss people" who "take too much" than to actually get down to specifics as to what needs to be cut.

[buffalofamily]

Thest are not little libraries in need of any major repair. These are two very successful branches in the top 5 of circulation. The argument that it costs too much to mantain is bugus. The politicians that want to close it use the expense argument, but in the next promise they spew out is the promise of reuse of these facilities! HMMM! AT TAXPAYER EXPENSE.

Take a closer look at the library system budget, and you'll find that payroll and human resources are the biggest slice of the expense side of the equation.

Caz was built in 1925 and is a treasure of the Cazenovia Olmstead park. It's heating and roof has been repaired in recent years. Dudley was built in 1963, and if that's too old, we might as well tear down all of the area including many suburban libraries.

Let's not forget that we pay taxes to support these Libraries. Payroll tax, sales tax, property tax are all paid by us! They belong to the people, NOT THE POLITICIANS and their buddies.

The ALA supports their Librarians fighting to keep branches open nationwide, even in these tough economic times. Why can't our Librarians and workers fight for this??? The answer is politics and fear of losing their job.

This is not "self interest". I live near the Cazenovia branch, but fighting more to keep Dudley open, because I can't imagine the children walking after school, at night to a library outside their area. This is the city and not the suburbs. People WALK to these wonderful libraries. It is also not "self interest" for people to fight against a take it or leave it proposal. That's the plan. We have no say in the size, location, number of books, hours of operation, what it should look like and who constructs it. The plan won't allow a one for one replacement like suburban branches.

BTW--Repairs are done by the city at Caz and Dudley. The proposed consolidation takes away control of these Buffalo Libraries, and the new one would be run by the county. At first they stated it would be a Buffalo branch, and later changed that promise.

buffalo family

[WNYresident]

Well seeing i'm a armchair accountant why don't we just put the numbers togeather.

I bet there are a lot of people that will take the time if the accounting department has the actual figures on paper.

A lot of stuff in our local goverment is smoke and mirrors, it's time to clear the smoke and break the mirrors. Show us that we are wrong and that the one bigger library is better.

It's time we start to put things in writing.

also

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It's qiute easy to argue a point when you really have no idea what you are talking about. I'm sure it's a lot more complicated than you or I comprehend.

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What makes you understand this better than we do? Register at least if you expect us to take your comments seriously. Prove us wrong and make us look stupid.