wanna make a bet?

[300miles]

japzero - none of this is happening because we *want* to see thousands of people lose their jobs. What you have to realize is that the local and NYS govt has been taxing us to death. We are one of the highest taxest regions of the entire country. You need to let that sink in for minute. If we are *already* severely overtaxed, then how is adding more tax going to help? It will only make things worse. We should be doing the opposite and lowering taxes. There are reasonable logical ways to do that... but our govt has only wasted everyone's time with political games of chicken. If Giambra and the Legislature sat down 3 months ago and seriously looked for ways to cut costs, then they probably would not have to layoff 3000 now. They have proven themselves completely useless.

Did you know the sales tax used to be 7.25%? Before they added a 'temporary' penny to make it 8.25. That 'temporary' penny was added 20 YEARS ago and every year they renew it. What makes you think this new penny, pushing us up to 9.25% is every going to go away?

Did you know that most other states have sales tax rates well below ours 6%.... 4%.... nowhere NEAR 9%. Somehow they can govern without nearly as much tax. Why can't our govt learn to do that?

Only a total meltdown is going to move us forward. This govt is never going to fix itself. They had their chance for years. Time is up.

[NoCtUrNaL]

Originally posted by Japzero
For right now i say that we all take the increase and live with it,

BTW...for all those that believe we shouldn't lay off any county employees because the "services" they provide are desideratum...well, there's nothing stopping you from opening your check books and writing the county a big old fat juicy check on your own.

Fat chance huh?

[Deerhunter]

your for a tax increase because it isn't your money that will be taxed. Once you start working and supporting a family you will probably change your thinking. If your father does get laid off, it is because of Joel Giambras, shock campaign. He wants to sabotage any attempts to keep the county functioning without his patronage employees, and he needs that extra sales tax to do so. The Sheriffs Dept and DA's office should be mandated services, maybe to avoid this down the road, they will be.

[tomac]

Originally posted by NoCtUrNaL
If, as has been stated by those defending the county employees here, they are the "well educated, highly skilled, intelligent, hard working, efficient, and industrious" individuals they are purported to be, then they'll never want for employment.

Welcome to the private sector...and good luck.

That's pretty cynical. 1700 people looking for work NOW, with another 1300 by the end of the year; what kind of jobs will be open to them?
Some of the Highway guys might be able to pick up something, if they have a CDL (Commercial Driver's License), but what about those caseworkers and clerks downtown?
Face it, because of Giambra and all of the politicians like him going back some fifty years, there are NO jobs and that's the real problem.
Giambra (and others) was carping that the County is the biggest employer in the area; whose fault is that?
Bethlehem, Republic Steel, the Auto Industry, Curtiss-Wright, Westinghouse, Otis Elevator all had bigger employment than the County; why did they leave?
Or is the County the biggest employer because they're the only ones left?

Last one out the door, please turn off the lights!

[tomac]

Originally posted by 300miles

Did you know the sales tax used to be 7.25%? Before they added a 'temporary' penny to make it 8.25. That 'temporary' penny was added 20 YEARS ago and every year they renew it. What makes you think this new penny, pushing us up to 9.25% is every going to go away?

Not exactly. Twenty years ago it was 7% and raised to 8% (8%-Eddie Rutkowski and the Domed Stadium Scandal). The lads raised it by a 1/4% back a couple of years ago (2002, IIRC). But go back far enough and you'll see that there was NO sales tax.
I don't like taxes, but I'd rather see a sales thax that everybody kicks into (including Canadians and Welfare bums) than a Property Tax that targets a select few.

Did you know that most other states have sales tax rates well below ours 6%.... 4%.... nowhere NEAR 9%. Somehow they can govern without nearly as much tax. Why can't our govt learn to do that?

Again, not exactly true. Tenessee has a 10% sales tax - and NO State Income Tax.

Only a total meltdown is going to move us forward. This govt is never going to fix itself. They had their chance for years. Time is up.

This County government started melting down when we hired that incompetant clown Joel Giambra. What we're seeing now is only the result of his fiscal expertese.
Remember he's the same guy that helped put the City of Buffalo into a hurt-locker (of course, he fixed the blame on everyone else at the time )

[tomac]

"One less government employee is one government employee closer to better government". ~Moi

Only when that government employee is Joel Giambra!

[tomac]

Just had a thought, courtesy of some of the Newsgroups that I hang out in.....

The Feds are talking about a possible Federal Sales Tax instead of the Personal Income Tax. If this comes to pass, what happens to Joel's local 9.25(+/-)% gouge? The Feds are quoting around 10% to start, and maybe 15% (again, with no 25% - 33% Income Tax).

[gubmentcheez]

Atlanta GA: Sales tax 6% Gallon of Gas-$1.65 Property taxes are 1/3 of here.

They have and airport that is one of the best in the world;

Compared to Buffalo, their skyline, population, and business community have absolutely exploded;

They have libraries, fire trucks, and traffic signals;

They probably have a "County Rodent Program" and other crap like that;

They have roads (from 4 lanes in 1980 to 12 lanes in 2003);

They have police, hospital, and other services;

They have MARTA - Metro Atlanta Rapid Transit Authorty (Light RAIL)

You know what else they have? Around half, about 52%, of it's population is made up of people that used to live up here in the rust belt. They owned all the delapitated houses you see in the area (and paid taxes on 'em), and sent their kids to our schools (taxes again), and worked in all those empty buildings you see around here....but AS LONG AS THE GUBMENT AROUND HERE GETS THEIRS - HELL OR HIGH WATER......oops! C YA! THEY LEFT!!!

"Gees Ralph, I wonder why?"

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by Japzero
Ok, let me start by saying this...i am a high school student with a resonable view on this matter. Like everyone else i think that a tax increase isnt the greatest idea there is. But to me it seems most logical. there is gogin to be about 1700 people laid off, some of which have many years in and are about to retire. some who are just starting out and have car and house payments. i mean how are these people suppose to survive? my father is an Eire County Sheriff and it looks like there will be cuts at his work place. sure Giambria should get rid of all the ransom jobs he has handed out that should be one of the first to go. and the sales tax should increase to so save these peoples jobs. Whats going to happen to all the area parks when there is nobody to do maitness on them? we live in Buffalo what about snow removal. how is this all going to pan out in the future?. For right now i say that we all take the increase and live with it, down the line it could always be changed again? I recieved an email saying that there is a possible extension on the date of the vote...Is this true??

We need to look at the community as a whole not the "company" they call government. We wil have to make due with what we have. Buffalo has one thing most communities don't, good people.

The answer is simple. A minimum 10% to 20% salary cut across the board and stop all level grade upgrades so games can't be played. They get no more money until all the patronage friend and family plan members are totally gone. Period. OH the accounting books have to be in order. The community is at stake. We need to be competitive agaisnt other areas in the UNITED STATES.

[WNYresident]

For right now i say that we all take the increase and live with it,

You know what they don't realize. I would pay the increase to be the CLUB to if I got. unlimited overtime in some cases, top notched health insurance, way too many holidays off, in my opinion too much paid vacation, salaries out of line with private sector positions and frankly they hire too many people to do the needed task so they all don't have to work so hard.

But you know what? I know i'm totally tired of paying for it when we see what others states are charging to live in them. We don't even have natural disasters like the have in other states.

The Club... thats what we should call it.

[Curmudgeon]

Japzero, my heart is ripped out and bleeding on the floor. Exactly which public school are you an inmate of?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.



That's some funny S***!!!

Your tax dollars at work. Send that young man to a charter school or something....

[tomac]

Originally posted by gubmentcheez
Atlanta GA: Sales tax 6% Gallon of Gas-$1.65 Property taxes are 1/3 of here.
[snip many of Atlanta's other good points.]

This has me intrigued.....
What is Welfare like down there?
Do they have multi-generational recipients. No wait, they ship them up here.

[tomac]

Originally posted by WNYresident
The answer is simple. A minimum 10% to 20% salary cut across the board and stop all level grade upgrades so games can't be played. They get no more money until all the patronage friend and family plan members are totally gone. Period. OH the accounting books have to be in order. The community is at stake. We need to be competitive agaisnt other areas in the UNITED STATES.

Joel telling Victor Getz that he has to give up his cars and find a real job?
Joel taking a major pay cut?
You are talking of as much chance of Alien Space Bats coming here as this happening.

[tomac]

Originally posted by WNYresident
You know what they don't realize. I would pay the increase to be the CLUB to if I got. unlimited overtime in some cases, top notched health insurance, way too many holidays off, in my opinion too much paid vacation, salaries out of line with private sector positions and frankly they hire too many people to do the needed task so they all don't have to work so hard.

But you know what? I know i'm totally tired of paying for it when we see what others states are charging to live in them. We don't even have natural disasters like the have in other states.

The Club... thats what we should call it.

Not to burst your bubble, but in thirty-two years, I only had three years with any overtime, and then never more than twenty hours per paycheck (bi-weekly).
Holidays are nice but they don't put food on the table or pay rent or tuition. They were handed out back in the day when the County couldn't afford a pay raise at all.
Same went for vacation time. It was a cheaper benefite than a pay raise. Six weeks is high, I'll grant you, but you have to offer something in return (even if its job security for a couple of years)
And paychecks out of line? When I left I had just broken $40k for doing survey work. Professional surveyors in this area are making about half again to twice as much; how do you figure my check was out of line? Oh right, because it came out of tax money.
Have your property surveyed and tell the surveyor that you only want to spend $100 on it. When he gets done laughing in your face, he'll tell you to find someone else.
Did I feel that $40k was out of line? You go and play in traffic with some of the morons behind the wheel and see if you think that its enough.....

[citymouse]

This 7/8 of a penny. would be the best thing for Joel.
He said he would not share the 14 million with the municipalities.
He said the reason was the tax would only raise ninety seven million rather than the one hundred and four million they would get from the full penny.
Let's see. 104-14=90 million. That was under the origional penny increase.
If the 7/8th of a penny gives him 97 million and he dosen't share the 14 million he makes seven million.
Slick!
Oh, he offered to take over the Ogden street transfer station to ease the city burden.
The transfer station has been under the county since 2001. They lease it from the city for a dollar a year and lease it to modern disposal.
What is he going to do to help the city, give us two dollars a year?
He will give you a wiener for a ham any day.
I heard he might resign to sell snake oil. He would be great at it.
King Con Joel.