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Thread: Can we just put the unions to sleep and get on with it?

  1. #1
    Member The Stig's Avatar
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    Can we just put the unions to sleep and get on with it?

    Don't ever let a good idea get in the way of a government union.

    It's not about what the citizens need. It's what the members of a government-mandated monopoly want. And if you don't like it, they get to steal 'your' property from you. Legally. Closet socialists, the lot of them. Maybe we should sue the city of Charlotte, NC to pay our taxes. What the hell.

    Most of our school taxes paid to educate their residents anyway. And with self-absorbed leeches like these sucking the stone, that ain't gonna change anytime soon, is it? Don't expect these bastards to make this widely known at your next budget vote.

    Linda_D, comments are welcome. But I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting.

    Link

    ALBANY -- The New York State United Teachers Union is withholding its endorsements of 38 senators who crossed the politically potent union last week by approving a cap on annual growth rates on property taxes.

    The move by the union's board this afternoon is meant as a signal to both houses and Gov. David Paterson just days before the Legislature is coming back to Albany to possibly try to settle the tax cap issue.

    "This underscores the seriousness we believe for the harm it would do to our salaries and benefits children in public schools," said Carl Korn, a spokesman for the union.

    The NYSUT endorsement is one of the most sought-after by Albany's politicians. Besides a statement by a union representing several hundred thousand public employees, a NYSUT endorsement opens up campaign cash, polling help, and foot soldiers for candidates on election day.

    The move by NYSUT Wednesday affects all the Republican members of the Senate, including senators Dale Volker, George Maziarz and Cathy Young of Western New York. The union is also withholding an endorsement for Sen. William Stachowski, a Buffalo Democrat.

    The NYSUT decision also came as groups are stepping up campaigns against the Paterson plan, which calls for holding annual property tax increases at 4 percent or 120 percent of the inflation rate, whichever is lower.

    The Working Families Party and the Alliance for Quality Education announced Tuesday a $1.5 million television ad campaign timed to try to halt any action on the tax cap when the Legislature returns next week for a special session. The Assembly Democratic leadership, however, has already said it is not interested in the cap unless there are promises for future education aid hikes from Albany to cover any loss of property tax revenues.

    The Working Families Party also said Wednesday it is sending out 200,000 direct mail to homes in Westchester County and Long Island to block any action next week in the Assembly on the tax cap.

  2. #2
    Member raoul duke's Avatar
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    Imagine that! A union - who's professionally licensed members are charged with educating teh kidz - is opposed to an initiative that could to serve to make their member's job harder to do, possibly at the expense of one of the pillars of this society - education, in a political arena of all places?!?!? What gall?!?

    BTW, a labor union is an advocacy organization for it's members and it's members only. Though, by law in some instances, they do work for people outside of their membership but in their targeted profession(s). The job of the union is to be a force for it's members against the people, company and/or government it works for. That's why unions still exist and, due to the current economic conditions, have a chance to get stronger.

    I'm not trying to dismiss some of your criticism, as with any organization there are flaws and changes to be made. But to wish for them to be gone is absurd, especially for anyone currently enjoying what passes for a "middle class" these days. Unless you'd like to be the modern equivalent of a share-cropper.

    That education is expensive, and it is, is accepted by most people. Instead of bitching about what someone with a Master's degree costs government to keep on the payroll, maybe you should ask why there's $60 million to "lure" a store to a lake-front location. I thought Capitalism said where there's demand, supply will follow. Or are over-priced fishing poles - for an apparently under-served "outdoor enthusiast" demographic - more important than making sure your kid can read and/or has a chance to become something resembling intelligent?
    One beautiful thing about having a government of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations is that every disaster is measured in terms of economic loss. It's sort of like getting your arm sheared off in a car accident and thinking, "Damn, now it'll take longer to fold the laundry" as blood spurts from your arteries. - The Rude Pundit

  3. #3
    Unregistered Enough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raoul duke
    ....BTW, a labor union is an advocacy organization for it's members and it's members only. ......
    "This underscores the seriousness we believe for the harm it would do children in public schools," said Carl Korn, a spokesman for the union.
    You're right, a labor union is for it's members only, but stop trying to pretend it's for "the children" whenever you think it suits you!

    Quote Originally Posted by raoul duke
    That education is expensive, and it is, is accepted by most people. Instead of bitching about what someone with a Master's degree costs government to keep on the payroll
    New York, which also came in highest last year, spent $14,119 per student, followed by New Jersey at $13,800, Vermont at $11,838 and Connecticut at $11,572
    Why does education have to be expensive? We spend more here in NY than any other state in the country!

    We obviously must have the smartest children in the United States. Right?

    Whoopsedaisey not really. According to the following link NYS is number 32:
    I guess money doesn't buy smarter kids (thanks to "mikenold" for the research he did)

    Quote Originally Posted by raoul duke
    Instead of bitching about what someone with a Master's degree costs government to keep on the payroll, maybe you should ask why there's $60 million to "lure" a store to a lake-front location.
    Why is it whenever someone states an opinion on a certain topic another always wants to use the argument, "Well, what about......."???

    Well, what about it? Can't someone have an opinion on both topics? Just because someone has an opinion on schools doesn't mean they have opinion on Bass Pro too. It makes you look weak. It makes you look like you can't debate the school issue on it's own so you must sidetrack the discussion to another topic that will allow you to speak from a position of strength. Lets discuss each topic on its own merits. If ya wanna talk about Bass Pro start another thread and we'll discuss it.

  4. #4
    Member The Stig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raoul duke
    BTW, a labor union is an advocacy organization for it's members and it's members only. Though, by law in some instances, they do work for people outside of their membership but in their targeted profession(s). The job of the union is to be a force for it's members against the people, company and/or government it works for. That's why unions still exist and, due to the current economic conditions, have a chance to get stronger.
    That bolded line is interesting- current conditions? What, is the diminishing population of NY a new thing? Is the political muscle and BS of NYSUT a recent event? Did taxpayers in NY once have a choice regarding public schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by raoul duke
    But to wish for them to be gone is absurd, especially for anyone currently enjoying what passes for a "middle class" these days. Unless you'd like to be the modern equivalent of a share-cropper.
    Absurd. Yeah. I've been working since 1985, as a staunchly middle-class person, and never once have I been a union member. Explain your thinking here- If it weren't for unions, we'd all eat gruel and work 96 hour weeks?!? Please. This isn't 1920.

    So instead of the teachers not getting screwed by their employers, each and every taxpayer in NY gets screwed instead, and taxpayers are required, BY LAW, to support this screwing. What a noble union this is.

    Quote Originally Posted by raoul duke
    That education is expensive, and it is, is accepted by most people. Instead of bitching about what someone with a Master's degree costs government to keep on the payroll, maybe you should ask why there's $60 million to "lure" a store to a lake-front location. I thought Capitalism said where there's demand, supply will follow.
    You have a problem with corporate welfare? Public schools are government welfare of the worst kind. It's even worse in NY, because the educated 'product' leaves here, mainly due to high taxes.

    Care to guess what that union drone wants to say publicly about NY's decreasing population? We both know the answer there. But not to worry, the high taxes are all for the kids and their future. So they can leave here and pay their taxes somewhere else. Nice return on investment.

    Why not just have each and every person in WNY mail a check for $1000, per year, to Charlotte, NC? Eliminate the government-union middleman. We'll get the exact same results.

    It's rather odd you mention capitalism in a post criticizing a government mandated monopoly. What are your thoughts on vouchers?
    Last edited by The Stig; August 14th, 2008 at 07:02 AM.

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    Unregistered Enough's Avatar
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    http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=W04

    Education: Long-Term Contribution Trends


    The Education "Industry" has made over $30 million in Contributions to politicians (in 2008 alone).....

    If you think, even for a second that politicians are going to make meaningful cuts to education you're crazy!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Stig
    That bolded line is interesting- current conditions? What, is the diminishing population of NY a new thing? Is the political muscle and BS of NYSUT a recent event? Did taxpayers in NY once have a choice regarding public schools?



    Absurd. Yeah. I've been working since 1985, as a staunchly middle-class person, and never once have I been a union member. Explain your thinking here- If it weren't for unions, we'd all eat gruel and work 96 hour weeks?!? Please. This isn't 1920.

    So instead of the teachers not getting screwed by their employers, each and every taxpayer in NY gets screwed instead, and taxpayers are required, BY LAW, to support this screwing. What a noble union this is.



    You have a problem with corporate welfare? Public schools are government welfare of the worst kind. It's even worse in NY, because the educated 'product' leaves here, mainly due to high taxes.

    Care to guess what that union drone wants to say publicly about NY's decreasing population? We both know the answer there. But not to worry, the high taxes are all for the kids and their future. So they can leave here and pay their taxes somewhere else. Nice return on investment.

    Why not just have each and every person in WNY mail a check for $1000, per year, to Charlotte, NC? Eliminate the government-union middleman. We'll get the exact same results.

    It's rather odd you mention capitalism in a post criticizing a government mandated monopoly. What are your thoughts on vouchers?
    Wow,,,, I wish I had said that... bravo bravo!

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    Unregistered Cgoodsp466's Avatar
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    NYSTNUTS the new Nazi Party.

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