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Thread: Conflict of Interest

  1. #1
    Member snowwhite's Avatar
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    Question Conflict of Interest

    I'm not a lawyer, but I have a question that maybe someone could answer for me. Isn't it a conflict of interest for Vince Graber to vote on anything to do with Americorp or the Birchfield because both his wife and brother-in-law work there? His wife works for Americorp and his brother-in-law works for building and grounds. I remember Paul Clark sustaining from voting when it involved one of his clients, so shouldn't Vince do the same?

  2. #2
    Member OldTymeRevival's Avatar
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    Oh, c'mon.... you know better!

    Quote Originally Posted by snowwhite
    I'm not a lawyer, but I have a question that maybe someone could answer for me. Isn't it a conflict of interest for Vince Graber to vote on anything to do with Americorp or the Birchfield because both his wife and brother-in-law work there? His wife works for Americorp and his brother-in-law works for building and grounds. I remember Paul Clark sustaining from voting when it involved one of his clients, so shouldn't Vince do the same?
    Of course he should abstain- but because he's an ignorant, arrogant, pos, he'll continue to do whatever he feels like unless someone moves to stop him. Hopefully the law department will look into this and make a decision on this- or someone take it to civil court.

    Where's DT Warren on this?

  3. #3
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Since the Town does not have a good enforceable ethics code it defaults to state law which is ambiguous at best in this factual situation.

    I agree that it has an appearance of impropriety that should have been avoided.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  4. #4
    Member OldTymeRevival's Avatar
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    If it then defaults to the State...

    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren
    Since the Town does not have a good enforceable ethics code it defaults to state law which is ambiguous at best in this factual situation.

    I agree that it has an appearance of impropriety that should have been avoided.
    Would a complaint to the AG's office perhaps produce a ruling?

  5. #5
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    OTR,
    You were carping about civility and being professional and then you go and call Graber an ignorant, arrogant, POS?
    That's not very civil nor professional.

  6. #6
    Member OldTymeRevival's Avatar
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    Did you ever see him in action?

    Quote Originally Posted by FisherRd
    OTR,
    You were carping about civility and being professional and then you go and call Graber an ignorant, arrogant, POS?
    That's not very civil nor professional.
    That's the most civil way I could even approach him! Besides, what I think or say about him has no effect on his actions and that's what needs to be addressed. So don't try and be smug and divert the thread. His actions warrant further review.

  7. #7
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    This matter would probably be reviewed by the Erie County Ethics Board under Article 18 of the General Municipal Law.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  8. #8
    Member Spirit of Ebenezer's Avatar
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    Saying Graber shouldn't vote on Americorp issues because of kin is a bit absurd. What if instead of kin, it was close or long time friends he helped get jobs there ? Would that also be a conflict and should as well exclude him from voting on issues there ?

    I'd like to hear examples of these supposed issues of conflict regarding Graber and Americorp ?
    A remark should only hurt within it's proportion of what is true.

  9. #9
    Member OldTymeRevival's Avatar
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    Well, SOE...

    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit of Ebenezer
    Saying Graber shouldn't vote on Americorp issues because of kin is a bit absurd. What if instead of kin, it was close or long time friends he helped get jobs there ? Would that also be a conflict and should as well exclude him from voting on issues there ?

    I'd like to hear examples of these supposed issues of conflict regarding Graber and Americorp ?
    I think you laid it out. On the promise that he is a moral and ethical man, yes he would exclude/recuse himself from a vote of such importance regarding the Town and Americorps because of having kin employed there or (IN YOUR INSTANCE) using it as his personal patronage pit. In the very least, at the time of the vote he should clarify those conditions. But did he? I think he knows better.

    I'm all in favor of having this turned over to the Erie County Ethics Board for their review before the next Town Board meeting and before the Town signs any contract with Americorps. The previous administration may have been hornschwagled by this organization, but that doesn't mean the new board needs to sign off their newborn too!
    Last edited by OldTymeRevival; July 10th, 2008 at 06:33 PM.

  10. #10
    Member Psycho1's Avatar
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    Just my opinion

    I like the thought, but given the current make-up of the Town's departments, it could preclude each member of the board from voting on numerous issues.

    Mr. Graber's wife working for AmeriCorps might prevent him from voting, but the fact she's not in a decision making position could be a factor. Neither Vince, or his wife, would gain financially accept for her paycheck, which is for her services. If her job actually depended on Vince's vote, and their income jeopardized by the result of his vote, then there would be a conflict. As it stands now it might be grasping at straws. The best solution is to vote him out next year.
    I'd rather be hated for who I am... than loved for who I'm not!

  11. #11
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    I am not so sure that recusal or abstention is necessary in all situations. However, I believe disclosure of certain relationships should be.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  12. #12
    Member OldTymeRevival's Avatar
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    I agree!

    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren
    I am not so sure that recusal or abstention is necessary in all situations. However, I believe disclosure of certain relationships should be.
    In the very least. But Mr. Graber seems to mirror our current Presidents philosophy: If you don't agree with me, then you're against me!

  13. #13
    Member MERL J's Avatar
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    If someone goes up against a judge, the judges recuses himself out of respect for the law. So should Mr. Graber, plain and simple. Too often has this organization been in question. Mr. Graber should welcome the concept of showing he has every intention of keeping his nose clean.

  14. #14
    Unregistered Niagara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho1
    I like the thought, but given the current make-up of the Town's departments, it could preclude each member of the board from voting on numerous issues.
    WP, and SM would need to abstain from voting on the ice rink. WP has kids who skate there, and SM because of family member employed there.

    If her job actually depended on Vince's vote, and their income jeopardized by the result of his vote, then there would be a conflict. As it stands now it might be grasping at straws.
    The vote was to evict Americorp from the Burchfield. The vote was 3-2 against. Without Graber it would have been 2-2, and still would not have passed. The issue is moot.

  15. #15
    Member CSense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel
    WP, and SM would need to abstain from voting on the ice rink. WP has kids who skate there,
    Whaaaaat? Abstain because kids skate there? Are you for real? So does that mean he can't vote against closing the library, swimming pool, etc because his family uses the facilities? What constitutes use (once, twice, more than five)?

    So using your theory, any member that uses any facility (even once) would have to abstain therefore no vote would ever be taken on anything. You are a winner.

    Take your ice rink obsession and give it a rest! We all get the picture, you don't want "your" taxes going up for an ice rink "you" don't use. Next it will be the pool when that needs improvements, then the pavilion, then the basketball courts and so on............

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