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Thread: State commission says mergers are key to any tax relief

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    State commission says mergers are key to any tax relief

    The front page of this mornings BUF News is interesting. It seems like Erie County/WNY (Giambra, Gaughn, others) have been talking about mergers, regionalization, etc for 10 years or so and now the state is taking an interest. I think we just have to start making it happen. I think the local communities would rather do it themselves, than have the state 'force it' to happen.

    State commission says mergers are key to any tax relief Proposals in report offer radical change to way state operates
    By Tom Precious - NEWS ALBANY BUREAU
    Updated: 04/20/08 9:29 AM

    ALBANY — A state commission will recommend 76 ways to control spiraling property taxes as it calls for dramatic — and politically challenging — efforts to merge cities, villages, towns and school districts.

    Mergers of local governments should be made easier to accomplish, local government employees should pay more of their own health insurance costs and union contracts should be renegotiated if local governments consolidate, the New York State Commission on Local Government Efficiency and Competitiveness will recommend.

    A draft report obtained by The Buffalo News outlines 76 ways that rising local government and school district costs can be shaved to give relief to New York’s property taxpayers, one of the most heavily taxed groups in the nation. The final report is expected to be publicly presented in a week to Gov. David A. Paterson.

    Acting on the report may be difficult, though, because the recommendations step on the toes of many powerful interests, including public employee unions, politicians accustomed to control over patronage jobs, and a long tradition about New York’s local governments.

    But beleaguered taxpayers also are an important interest group, the commission notes, and a different climate may be emerging that is receptive for solutions.

    “Citizens are demanding change, because they are frustrated by their local tax burden, which is the highest in the nation. They also want modern, efficient services and more progress on issues that must be addressed regionally, like economic growth and quality of life,” the report said.

    It also may be difficult for Albany to ignore the report’s ideas, since the commission’s members were appointed not only by the executive branch, but by the legislative leaders of the Senate and Assembly and the state comptroller. Former Lt. Gov. Stan Lundine of Jamestown headed the panel, and its 15 members include state lawmakers, local government officials, academics and business executives.

    Representatives of the commission and the governor’s staff said they would not comment until after the report is officially released, in about a week.

    The draft report includes major and minor changes needed — from local governments and from Albany — to rein in the cost of running localities.

    Consolidation is recommended not just for cities, towns and villages but also for the state’s 698 school districts, which levy the biggest local property tax hit. Consolidating two, 900-pupil districts can save 9 percent, and merging smaller districts can save taxpayers as much as 20 percent, the commission noted.

    The draft plan would give the state education commissioner the power to order school district mergers based on new criteria that look at pupil performance, enrollment and high tax burdens. The recom-

    mendation calls for more regional high schools and creation of local committees of school officials and parents to consider how school operations can be consolidated. Schools would be in line for more money, or in the words of the draft report, “significant incentive,” if they consolidate.

    The report also calls for regional collective bargaining agreements for school districts, which would “level the playing field” across communities while giving teachers more “flexible career paths” and more money for working in certain urban and rural areas that are now hard to staff. Other recommendations:

    • Merge industrial development agency offices into regional groups to end the practice of one community luring a company away from another nearby community.

    • Convert town and county positions of highway superintendent, assessor, town clerk, tax receiver and coroner to appointed jobs and create countywide 911 call centers.

    • Eliminate local government civil service commissions in communities with fewer than 100,000 residents, and require voter approval for them in larger municipalities, as a way to reduce redundancy.

    • Create regional jails instead of county-funded jails, with the ultimate goal being a single, statewide jail system managed by the state.

    • Permit collective bargaining agreements to be re-opened if local operations, like police and fire, merge.

    • Create a petition process that residents can use to dissolve or consolidate local governments and only let new villages be created if approved by a vote of the entire town, not just those living in the proposed new village.

    • Eliminate local boards of elections in administering state and local elections. Instead, a single, apolitical state official would run statewide contests — and only one official in each county — to end political gridlock that occurs now in partisan-split boards.

    Former Gov. Eliot L. Spitzer created the commission under an executive order a year ago and gave it a six-member staff. The commission was charged not just with finding ways to lower the property tax burden, but also how to make local government services more efficient. The draft report notes that New York’s system of running local governments was created during the era of horse-drawn transportation and is in need of a major overhaul.

    “Over the years, as conditions have changed, our solution to this outdated structure has been to add to it frequently, with additional governmental units, special districts, local public authorities and other entities, producing a complex amalgamation which obscures responsibility, reduces accountability and raises equity concerns for basic public services split between many entities and elected officials,” the draft report concludes.

    New York today boasts 5,528 different local government entities — far more than the 4,200 the commission believed existed when its work began last year. They include 1,607 general purpose units, like counties and villages, another 1,804 special purpose entities, like school and fire districts, and 2,117 “other” entities, which include community colleges, IDAs and water and sewer authorities. The numbers don’t include thousands of more government entities, like planning boards and soil and water districts.

    New York is one of only 10 states where residents can live in three layers of local governments — counties, towns and villages — at the same time.

    Erie County leads the state with 939 special districts, and they accounted for 32 percent of the $440 million in tax revenues collected by towns in 2004, according to a state comptroller’s office report last year.

    When the commission releases its report, it will also put out several research papers, including one that looks at the failed plan several years ago to consolidate Buffalo and Erie County. The paper, which was not available, said that consolidation idea had so many unanswered questions that “momentum for the consolidation faded.”

    Change in spending

    One national regionalism expert praised New York for thinking more seriously about ways to consolidate and share services, but says that will have little impact unless officials address spending.

    “The problem isn’t where the boxes are. The problem is the political culture of spending money they don’t have and trying to make it sound like they’re not responsible,” said John Norquist, the former mayor of Milwaukee who runs a national group that works on neighborhood planning and anti-sprawl efforts.

    The quickest way to slow property taxes, he said, would be to require every government entity in New York to keep spending below the inflation rate.

    “They have to discipline them- selves. That should be the moral imperative,” Norquist said.

    While the report’s ideas could save money, he added: “It’s not going to solve the problem. There has to be a new ethic of paying bills on time, not pushing things off to the next generation to pay.”

    Cutting ‘cost drivers’

    The report also looks at problems in the fire and emergency protection services locally, suggesting countywide fire systems to improve services while retaining volunteer systems.

    And the report looks at what it calls “cost drivers” for local government.

    For one of the biggest — worker health insurance plans — it calls for a minimum 10 percent contribution by individuals and 25 percent for family policies, to be phased in over five years.

    Local government employee health insurance costs rose from $2.9 billion to $4.9 billion between 2000 and 2005, the report notes. By requiring employees to contribute more, as in private industry, localities in New York could save $475 million annually.

    The commission said 53 percent of localities do not require employee health insurance contributions.

    The panel is also set to recommend a new pension tier — one in which new state and local government employees would have to contribute to their pension plans to slow the “relatively rich” benefits local employees now receive.

    In addition, the draft report recommends the complete elimination of the union-backed Wicks Law, which drives up the cost of public construction projects by requiring multiple contracts for the work. The recent state budget raised the threshold limits under which Wicks would not apply — $500,000 for upstate projects and $3 million in New York City.

    That change will do little to cut costs for taxpayers, critics say.

    In the end, localities must be given more powers and “a clear process” from Albany to consolidate operations or share services with others. New York’s local government system “holds to boundaries, rules and a scale of operations” long outdated, the report said. “This anachronistic [system] carries a price, because many local services could be provided more efficiently and effectively on a broader scale,” the draft report states.

    tprecious@buffnews.com

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    Gaughan notes pitfalls in merger report

    Update from this mornings BUF News:

    Gaughan notes pitfalls in merger report
    Sees need to change state law as obstacle
    By Patrick Lakamp
    Updated: 04/21/08 6:41 AM

    The latest report to call for merging cities, villages, towns and school districts looks familiar to regionalism advocate Kevin P. Gaughan.

    “So many of their recommendations are ones I’ve made over the years,” Gaughan said of the draft report from the New York State Commission on Local Government Efficiency and Competitiveness.

    But Gaughan noted the pitfalls that made earlier reports from others obsolete — and he warned that could happen to this report.

    “By recommending reforms that require changes in New York State law, the commission risks their report meeting the same dusty shelf fate that greeted previous efforts,” Gaughan said.

    “That’s why I’m proposing reducing the number of politicians rather than governments, because we can do it without Albany consent,” Gaughan said. “And the degree to which we succeed in downsizing today is the degree to which we set a foundation for consolidation tomorrow.”

    The commission’s final report, expected to be presented in a week to Gov. David A. Paterson, will recommend 76 ways to control spiraling property taxes, according to a draft copy obtained by The Buffalo News.

    The Erie County comptroller noted the breadth of the report, from a panel headed by former Lt. Gov. Stan Lundine of Jamestown.

    “The Lundine report shows what everybody knows: We just have too much government,” County Comptroller Mark C. Poloncarz said.

    It’ll take a “monumental” effort to change such a huge, complex and cumbersome system, he said.

    “I don’t think it’s immediately going to a shelf to collect dust,” Poloncarz said. “We may not see the merger of towns and villages. I’d be surprised if we did. But by letting everyone know the challenge is not in just one part of government, hopefully it’ll spur a discussion that leads folks to realize by working together we can create a better community.”

    The report recommends consolidation for cities, towns, villages and the state’s 698 school districts.

    Other recommendations include merging industrial development agency offices into regional groups, creating regional jails instead of county-funded jails, permitting collective bargaining agreements to be reopened if local police departments merge and allowing a petition process that residents can use to dissolve or consolidate local governments.

    “Every Western New Yorker who hopes for a better future has to be thrilled by the commission’s report,” Gaughan said. “And more importantly, every citizen must now take an active role in overcoming the powerful interests that are going to oppose these appropriate changes.”

    “I hope it gets debate and dialogue going in Albany,” said Legislature Chairwoman Lynn M. Marinelli, D-Town of Tonawanda. But for consolidation efforts to succeed, state and local leaders ought to concentrate on gaining smaller victories before trying to merge police departments, she said.

    “I think you have to show success,” she added. “Look, the public’s trust in government has eroded. Every level of government has to rebuild that trust. Pursuing doable projects, and showing success and cost efficiencies, will help keep a reform ball rolling here.”

    Amherst IDA Chairman Frederick A. Vilonen said the county doesn’t need to merge the six local industrial development agencies into a regional group.

    The agencies already agree to a standard set of criteria when evaluating applications and tax incentives, said Vilonen, owner of Ben Brook Farms.

    “I think the fact we have a unified policy makes it a regional operation,” Vilonen said. “All of the IDAs within Erie County operate under same criteria and guidelines. We’re essentially operating as a countywide IDA and that should suffice.”

    County leaders liked parts of the report.

    The report calls for converting town and county positions of highway superintendent, assessor, town clerk, tax receiver and coroner to appointed jobs.

    Last month, Poloncarz said eliminating 30 municipal assessing offices and using a centralized system to handle property assessments could save taxpayers millions.

    “We think we can save money and have a fairer system by going from a scattershot, town-by- town method to a more unified county system,” he said.

    Legislator Timothy M. Wroblewski, D-West Seneca, chairman of the Legislature’s Public Safety Committee, said he’s interested in the idea of creating regional jails instead of relying on county-funded jails.

    “I think the county jails are loaded up with people slated for the state penal system, and it’s costing county taxpayers thousands of dollars,” he said. “Anything that can streamline that process and get the burden off the county taxpayers deserves a serious look.”

    Wroblewski isn’t convinced merging police departments makes sense.

    “I will not support any initiative that reduces the number of officers on the street or even slightly puts public safety in jeopardy,” he said.

    Marinelli said residents view the issue of police consolidation on the local level the way they view Social Security on the federal level. “They don’t want their public safety tampered with,” she said.

    plakamp@buffnews.com

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    Governor to push mergers to cut government costs

    From the BUF news this morning. When will we see the 1st actions taken on these proposals? The sooner the better to reduce expenses/taxes.

    Governor to push mergers to cut government costs

    By Tom Precious - NEWS ALBANY BUREAU
    Updated: 05/01/08 6:37 AM

    ALBANY — Gov. David A. Paterson has embraced a state commission’s wide-ranging report on how to make local government more efficient and less costly, saying a sour economy and rising property taxes could lead to approval of many of the merger recommendations.

    The governor said he is prepared to deal with the criticism from political interests that have helped expand the number of local government entities around the state to more than 5,000 — many with similar or even competing interests.

    “These are institutions that have stood for a long time. The reason they got there is because previous attempts to relinquish this kind of control was opposed. It’s unfortunate that sometimes people fought over who can stand on the smallest hill,” Paterson said Wednesday, after accepting the report of the Commission on Local Government Efficiency and Competitiveness.

    The governor used such terms as “outdated” and “patronage mills” to describe some local government en ti-ties and said he will propose legislation that would save $50 million through such steps as limiting the number of special districts — like sewer and water agencies, eliminating the cost of pay and other benefits for their executives. The legislation also will make it easier for citizens to submit petitions to eliminate and consolidate government.

    But soon after the report’s release, interest groups from school organizations to public employee unions were lining up to try to kill many of the ideas.

    The Civil Service Employees Association, which represents 210,000 state and local government employees, lashed out at the commission’s ideas as “scapegoating” government workers. It sharply criticized proposals to require local government officials to contribute as much as 25 percent of their health insurance costs and to establish a new pension classification that would result in lower benefits for future government workers.
    “It is inexcusable that these recommendations come from people who should know a lot better than to mislead the public at the expense of public employees,” said Danny Donohue, CSEA president.

    The most receptive group appeared to be the New York State Association of Counties, which backed a number of the panel’s ideas. But the organization also reminded state officials of their role in driving up property taxes by passing on unfunded mandates to local governments.

    The state Conference of Mayors, meanwhile, also supported many of the ideas to streamline government services, control rising public employee benefit costs and make it easier for localities to share services. It also backed calls to eliminate the Wicks Law, a union-backed requirement that critics say drives up the cost of public construction projects, and to control pension costs.

    The 15-member commission, headed by former Lt.Gov. Stan Lundine of Jamestown, expected some of the ideas would meet sharp resistance.

    Lundine defended the recommendations, saying they would improve the delivery of government services and tackle the state’s worsening property tax problem. New York leads the nation in state and local tax burden.

    “We are convinced that the obsolete designation of municipal governments and the proliferation of school districts add to the property tax burden in New York,” Lundine said.

    tprecious@buffnews.com

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    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bornandraised
    Update from this mornings BUF News:

    Gaughan notes pitfalls in merger report
    Sees need to change state law as obstacle
    By Patrick Lakamp
    Updated: 04/21/08 6:41 AM

    The latest report to call for merging cities, villages, towns and school districts looks familiar to regionalism advocate Kevin P. Gaughan.

    “So many of their recommendations are ones I’ve made over the years,” Gaughan said of the draft report from the New York State Commission on Local Government Efficiency and Competitiveness.

    But Gaughan noted the pitfalls that made earlier reports from others obsolete — and he warned that could happen to this report.

    “By recommending reforms that require changes in New York State law, the commission risks their report meeting the same dusty shelf fate that greeted previous efforts,” Gaughan said.

    “That’s why I’m proposing reducing the number of politicians rather than governments, because we can do it without Albany consent,” Gaughan said. “And the degree to which we succeed in downsizing today is the degree to which we set a foundation for consolidation tomorrow.”

    The commission’s final report, expected to be presented in a week to Gov. David A. Paterson, will recommend 76 ways to control spiraling property taxes, according to a draft copy obtained by The Buffalo News.

    The Erie County comptroller noted the breadth of the report, from a panel headed by former Lt. Gov. Stan Lundine of Jamestown.

    “The Lundine report shows what everybody knows: We just have too much government,” County Comptroller Mark C. Poloncarz said.

    It’ll take a “monumental” effort to change such a huge, complex and cumbersome system, he said.

    “I don’t think it’s immediately going to a shelf to collect dust,” Poloncarz said. “We may not see the merger of towns and villages. I’d be surprised if we did. But by letting everyone know the challenge is not in just one part of government, hopefully it’ll spur a discussion that leads folks to realize by working together we can create a better community.”

    The report recommends consolidation for cities, towns, villages and the state’s 698 school districts.

    Other recommendations include merging industrial development agency offices into regional groups, creating regional jails instead of county-funded jails, permitting collective bargaining agreements to be reopened if local police departments merge and allowing a petition process that residents can use to dissolve or consolidate local governments.

    “Every Western New Yorker who hopes for a better future has to be thrilled by the commission’s report,” Gaughan said. “And more importantly, every citizen must now take an active role in overcoming the powerful interests that are going to oppose these appropriate changes.”

    “I hope it gets debate and dialogue going in Albany,” said Legislature Chairwoman Lynn M. Marinelli, D-Town of Tonawanda. But for consolidation efforts to succeed, state and local leaders ought to concentrate on gaining smaller victories before trying to merge police departments, she said.

    “I think you have to show success,” she added. “Look, the public’s trust in government has eroded. Every level of government has to rebuild that trust. Pursuing doable projects, and showing success and cost efficiencies, will help keep a reform ball rolling here.”

    Amherst IDA Chairman Frederick A. Vilonen said the county doesn’t need to merge the six local industrial development agencies into a regional group.

    The agencies already agree to a standard set of criteria when evaluating applications and tax incentives, said Vilonen, owner of Ben Brook Farms.

    “I think the fact we have a unified policy makes it a regional operation,” Vilonen said. “All of the IDAs within Erie County operate under same criteria and guidelines. We’re essentially operating as a countywide IDA and that should suffice.”

    County leaders liked parts of the report.

    The report calls for converting town and county positions of highway superintendent, assessor, town clerk, tax receiver and coroner to appointed jobs.

    Last month, Poloncarz said eliminating 30 municipal assessing offices and using a centralized system to handle property assessments could save taxpayers millions.

    “We think we can save money and have a fairer system by going from a scattershot, town-by- town method to a more unified county system,” he said.

    Legislator Timothy M. Wroblewski, D-West Seneca, chairman of the Legislature’s Public Safety Committee, said he’s interested in the idea of creating regional jails instead of relying on county-funded jails.

    “I think the county jails are loaded up with people slated for the state penal system, and it’s costing county taxpayers thousands of dollars,” he said. “Anything that can streamline that process and get the burden off the county taxpayers deserves a serious look.”

    Wroblewski isn’t convinced merging police departments makes sense.

    “I will not support any initiative that reduces the number of officers on the street or even slightly puts public safety in jeopardy,” he said.

    Marinelli said residents view the issue of police consolidation on the local level the way they view Social Security on the federal level. “They don’t want their public safety tampered with,” she said.

    plakamp@buffnews.com
    There are some good ideas in the Commission report, and some that probably aren't going to fly. I think that CE Collins' original comments on the commission report were the best so far: the real savings will come from consolidating and sharing services rather than eliminating governments simply for for the sake of eliminating governments.

    As for Gaughan, he's a jackass who longs to be a king. His aim is to set up a dictatorship with himself and his well-heeled friends as a ruling junta supported by an entrenched bureaucracy. Every single proposal he's ever come up with has involved reducing the number of elected officials directly responsible to the voters while doing absolutely nothing about patronage which the real cost of government is. If I get the opportunity to speak with him, I will ask him why he hates democracy so much.

    “By recommending reforms that require changes in New York State law, the commission risks their report meeting the same dusty shelf fate that greeted previous efforts,” Gaughan said.

    “That’s why I’m proposing reducing the number of politicians rather than governments, because we can do it without Albany consent,” Gaughan said. “And the degree to which we succeed in downsizing today is the degree to which we set a foundation for consolidation tomorrow.”
    This is typical ignorant Gaughan BS. Poloncarz's idea to have a central county-wide assessment system wouldn't require any special state legislation, and that would save a lot of money because assessment firms charge by the parcel -- the more parcels the cheaper the parcel price -- so a firm doing the assessment for all of EC might do it for half the price they would charge Buffalo or Amherst -- and that might be a quarter of what they would charge a town like Eden or Newstead.

    Merging city, town or county police departments also wouldn't require state legislation. It wouldn't be an easy thing to work out for a whole lot of reasons, but it could be done. Maybe the place to start is with some of the specialized units such as detectives and/or narcotics.

    Collins also mentioned that Monroe County has worked out an agreement with its towns about road maintenance. Again, no state legislation required.

    Here in the Southern Tier, sharing services is a way of life because we simply have don't have the population to support many services. Chautauqua has just 1 county-wide IDA. Of course, out here in the boonies, we're happy whenever any new business comes to our area whether it comes to Jamestown or Dunkirk or Falconer or Westfield or Cherry Creek. Consolidating IDAs is not something that Albany has to have a say in, but the city and suburbs have to have the will to give up political fiefdoms.

    I think that the real stumbling block to establishing meaningful regionalism in Erie County is the petty jealousies between Buffalo and its suburbs. Too much of what passes for "regionalism" in EC is simply attempts by Buffalo pols to force all economic development into the city, especially downtown Buffalo. On the other hand, too many suburban town pols selfishly try to lure any and all businesses into their own towns. Then there are the "leaders" in groups like the BNE who keep promoting fools like Gaughan because they're only interested in their own benefit.
    Last edited by Linda_D; May 2nd, 2008 at 02:59 PM.
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    How is Gaughan ignorant and selfish for being smart? His idea wasn't accepted because of Giambra, so he changed it.

    Who are you to judge him? At least he's doing something.
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    I'll also add that we wouldn't even be discussing regionalism like we are if Gaughan hadn't kept the idea alive to begin with.

    This is someone who is using a grassroots campaign to change local government.

    And by God, I hope he succeeds---because the status quo is ridiculous.


    Collins and him should get together. They would be a force to be reckoned with.
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    Canadian Experience

    The national and provincial govts could not get towns and counties to merge services. So, they had to force the issue. They said, OK you don't want to merge, than no more money from the federal and provincial govts, you are on your own.

    That's why they have regional govt in Canada. Not just the towns merge services but counties merged to create the regional form of govt you see, in Canada.

    The towns still exist, I believe, for local planning/zoning issues, however police and other services are regional. Regional govt does work, you just have to give it a chance.

    We are one of ten states that have many layers of govt. If you look at the ten states, they are all dying, some more than others, but they are all taxed to death.

    The states with county govt, as the local govt, are doing well.

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    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPD86
    The national and provincial govts could not get towns and counties to merge services. So, they had to force the issue. They said, OK you don't want to merge, than no more money from the federal and provincial govts, you are on your own.

    That's why they have regional govt in Canada. Not just the towns merge services but counties merged to create the regional form of govt you see, in Canada.

    The towns still exist, I believe, for local planning/zoning issues, however police and other services are regional. Regional govt does work, you just have to give it a chance.
    Mergers and consolidations in and around Metro Toronto resulted in huge tax property tax increases for formerly independent towns that were sucked into the city limits -- and had to pay for city services.

    The merger of the police forces in Lancaster a few years ago actually increased police force costs because, IIRC, one or more part-time positions were made full-time and supervisors were added.

    Regionalism works but it has to be done carefully. Regional government isn't necessarily the best choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by RPD86
    We are one of ten states that have many layers of govt. If you look at the ten states, they are all dying, some more than others, but they are all taxed to death.

    The states with county govt, as the local govt, are doing well.
    The states with county government as local government are southern and western states that were predominately rural and agricultural until the 1970s. In fact, outside of their popular metros, they still are rural and agricultural -- and those areas are suffering from the same kinds of economic malaise one finds in other areas without popular metros that attract people. Check out the economic conditions in rural Georgia or Texas or Utah, and you'll find they're pretty grim -- and aren't all that different from economic conditions in upstate New York. The prosperous parts of these states are in big metros (Atlanta, Dallas-FT Worth, etc) or in popular recreational enclaves (beach communities, ski resorts, etc).
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Barden’s right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    Mergers and consolidations in and around Metro Toronto resulted in huge tax property tax increases for formerly independent towns that were sucked into the city limits -- and had to pay for city services.
    Okay, but you failed to mention that the mergers and consolidations also resulted in Toronto's economy take a giant leap forward.

    The merger of the police forces in Lancaster a few years ago actually increased police force costs because, IIRC, one or more part-time positions were made full-time and supervisors were added.
    Mergers and consolidations don't generally create immediate savings, Linda. You have to spend money to make money. Likewise, many times you have to spend money to SAVE money.
    Lancaster will eventually benefit from this consolidation.

    Regionalism works but it has to be done carefully. Regional government isn't necessarily the best choice.
    I agree and disagree. In a region such as Buffalo/Niagara, where we have so m any regional assets, I think this is an area that could greatly benefit from a regionalized governing body.
    If you were to include Niagara Falls in this too, you would have a power with pull not only in Albany, but in Washington.


    The states with county government as local government are southern and western states that were predominately rural and agricultural until the 1970s. In fact, outside of their popular metros, they still are rural and agricultural -- and those areas are suffering from the same kinds of economic malaise one finds in other areas without popular metros that attract people. Check out the economic conditions in rural Georgia or Texas or Utah, and you'll find they're pretty grim -- and aren't all that different from economic conditions in upstate New York. The prosperous parts of these states are in big metros (Atlanta, Dallas-FT Worth, etc) or in popular recreational enclaves (beach communities, ski resorts, etc).
    Yes, and those are communities that merged their services together.

    Look in the Buffalo News today===the article about School Food Service. It makes a strong argument for regionalism.

    Not merging governments per se...but it does discuss the benefits of BOCES. The original purpose of BOCES was to create a regionalized school district. It didn't happen that way, but that was its purpose.
    Now, it works with different districts, pooling their resources, to bid on items at a lower cost.
    They are doing that now with food costs---BOCES is using the pooled resources of districts to buy food in bulk.
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    Thumbs up Town of Clay, New York

    The Town of Clay voted 3 to 1 in favor of abolishing their police department and contracting with the Onondaga County Sheriff's Office, on June 23rd. They are contracting for 2 dedicated cars, which is what they had patrolling with their own police. The town will save a little over 1 million per year! The town has a population of 60,000 and is 52 square miles.

    I think this may be the wave of the future . . .

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    Lynn Meranelli is a chump,what does this broad know.She sure did not get to where she is with her brains.

  12. #12
    Member Add It Up's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPD86
    The Town of Clay voted 3 to 1 in favor of abolishing their police department and contracting with the Onondaga County Sheriff's Office, on June 23rd. They are contracting for 2 dedicated cars, which is what they had patrolling with their own police. The town will save a little over 1 million per year! The town has a population of 60,000 and is 52 square miles.

    I think this may be the wave of the future . . .

    It makes sense for smaller municipalities who don't have a lot invested, but why would a town like Amherst ever give up their police department?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Add It Up
    It makes sense for smaller municipalities who don't have a lot invested, but why would a town like Amherst ever give up their police department?

    Would they, or should they? I think they should. Especially now, with the economy failing, we should be thinking as a regional power.

    As a town, Amherst has very little buying power. As a region, we have a LOT of buying power.

    This means as far as vehicles, materials, and possibly even fuel.

    Regionalism should be implemented here---we need to be thinking as a region, not as seperate entities. We're going to die a horrible death if we don't start working together.
    http://www.buffaloreuse.org/~kool aid free zone~

  14. #14
    Unregistered Cgoodsp466's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Add It Up
    It makes sense for smaller municipalities who don't have a lot invested, but why would a town like Amherst ever give up their police department?
    Thats what the Tim Hortons people are saying Also, And why would the A hole Village of Kenmore Give up their Keystone cop Detachment. Now the town of Niagara their is one dysfunctional unit.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyboard150
    Would they, or should they? I think they should. Especially now, with the economy failing, we should be thinking as a regional power.
    The town of Amherst would save millions, per year, if they contracted with the sheriff's office. Same amount of cops on the street; less bosses.

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