State commission says mergers are key to any tax relief

[Linda_D]

The town of Amherst would save millions, per year, if they contracted with the sheriff's office. Same amount of cops on the street; less bosses.

While you are technically correct, it doesn't always work out that way since EC Sheriff's Office tends to charge considerably more for the same level of services. Many of the town and/or village police departments depend on part-time officers who may or may not be eligible for fringe benefits.

The village of Gowanda has looked repeatedly into having the EC sheriff patrol the village, but the cost remains prohibitive.

[RPD86]

While you are technically correct, it doesn't always work out that way since EC Sheriff's Office tends to charge considerably more for the same level of services. Many of the town and/or village police departments depend on part-time officers who may or may not be eligible for fringe benefits.

The village of Gowanda has looked repeatedly into having the EC sheriff patrol the village, but the cost remains prohibitive.

Your absolutely correct, regarding agencies that are strictly part-time, however, when you compare apples to apples (i.e. full-time vs. full-time agencies) the EC sheriff's office is the least expensive police agency, in Erie County; and, I may add in most counties of New York.

Sheriff employees, in New York state must pay into the retirement system and do not have binding arbitration on benefits; local municipalities and the state must pay the pay the tab for retirement benefits, for their police. That's why deputies sheriff, in New York, will never be able to catch up to the salaries and benefits of local municipal police and the state police.

If residents want their police to be part-time, to save on benefit costs, then they need to bring that up to their local legislator and executive. My only question would be is "what kind of individuals would you attract to work at a part-time job?"

If that's the answer, lets make all our public employees part-time! But, what would we as taxpayers get back in quality of services?

[atotaltotalfan2001]

The town of Amherst would save millions, per year, if they contracted with the sheriff's office. Same amount of cops on the street; less bosses.

How does the pay compare? I ask because I've heard that when you merge, you move to the higher pay. That makes it more expensive initially, but what I've read is that in the longterm, mergers start saving money.

That said, does anyone know if the Lancaster police force merger ended up saving money?

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Your absolutely correct, regarding agencies that are strictly part-time, however, when you compare apples to apples (i.e. full-time vs. full-time agencies) the EC sheriff's office is the least expensive police agency, in Erie County; and, I may add in most counties of New York.

Sheriff employees, in New York state must pay into the retirement system and do not have binding arbitration on benefits; local municipalities and the state must pay the pay the tab for retirement benefits, for their police. That's why deputies sheriff, in New York, will never be able to catch up to the salaries and benefits of local municipal police and the state police.

If residents want their police to be part-time, to save on benefit costs, then they need to bring that up to their local legislator and executive. My only question would be is "what kind of individuals would you attract to work at a part-time job?"

If that's the answer, lets make all our public employees part-time! But, what would we as taxpayers get back in quality of services?

Sorry but I simply do not see it.

If anything, towns like Clarence needs to stop using the ECSD and consolidate services with Amherst. As of today, these two towns account for almost 15% of the population of Erie County and that number, if anything, is going to go up.

Taking it a step further, Amherst and Cheektowaga police departments should merge and fold in Clarence. The population of these 3 towns, as of the 2000 census was 225k. Add in Lancaster and you have a population bigger then the City of Buffalo and could easily place 4 deivisions over each town. Something like this would make much more sense then folding into the ECSD.

The ECSD, has too much on their plate. They already are mismanaging the jail system and really should focus on rural services to places like Newsted, Alden, Marilla, Wales and other 3rd/4th ring rural areas.

The biggest complaint anyone should have is with Clarence. They already get support from the APD and use, what is in my opinion, more then their fair share of the ECSD resources. This is only going to become greater as Clarence grows.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Sorry but I simply do not see it.


The biggest complaint anyone should have is with Clarence. They already get support from the APD and use, what is in my opinion, more then their fair share of the ECSD resources. This is only going to become greater as Clarence grows.

Clarence also relies a fair amount on state police. Still, what makes you say the town is using more than its fair share of ECSD? It's not a particularly crime-intensive place (although it has been having that rash of car break ins)/

[Linda_D]

How does the pay compare? I ask because I've heard that when you merge, you move to the higher pay. That makes it more expensive initially, but what I've read is that in the longterm, mergers start saving money.

That said, does anyone know if the Lancaster police force merger ended up saving money?

Initially, the first year, the merger cost more. I think that was because at least one, and possibly more, part-time positions were converted to full time. I don't know how it has done since, but the silence is deafening, so I doubt that Lancaster residents have seen anything near the promised savings. Merger propopents would be dancing in the streets if they did.

[Linda_D]

Sorry but I simply do not see it.

If anything, towns like Clarence needs to stop using the ECSD and consolidate services with Amherst. As of today, these two towns account for almost 15% of the population of Erie County and that number, if anything, is going to go up.

Taking it a step further, Amherst and Cheektowaga police departments should merge and fold in Clarence. The population of these 3 towns, as of the 2000 census was 225k. Add in Lancaster and you have a population bigger then the City of Buffalo and could easily place 4 deivisions over each town. Something like this would make much more sense then folding into the ECSD.

The ECSD, has too much on their plate. They already are mismanaging the jail system and really should focus on rural services to places like Newsted, Alden, Marilla, Wales and other 3rd/4th ring rural areas.

The biggest complaint anyone should have is with Clarence. They already get support from the APD and use, what is in my opinion, more then their fair share of the ECSD resources. This is only going to become greater as Clarence grows.

Merging the suburban departments might very well be a workable arrangement, especially if the departments had similar salary and benefit structures. I think that the big savings would come from reduced administration (1 chief vs 3, etc) and, hopefully, less OT because manpower could be shifted where needed.

However, it wouldn't be a savings for Clarence residents who would now have to pay for a police force instead of depending on the ECSD and/or SP.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Initially, the first year, the merger cost more. I think that was because at least one, and possibly more, part-time positions were converted to full time. I don't know how it has done since, but the silence is deafening, so I doubt that Lancaster residents have seen anything near the promised savings. Merger propopents would be dancing in the streets if they did.

I think the town is also building a new facility for the department. If recall correctly, the price tag was pretty high.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Clarence also relies a fair amount on state police. Still, what makes you say the town is using more than its fair share of ECSD? It's not a particularly crime-intensive place (although it has been having that rash of car break ins)/

A lot goes into policing a town that size. Traffic patrol and non emergency calls require resources. Just the West side of Transit alone uses the same amount of resources as a town like Alden. Add in things like the Bike Path and when sh*t hits the fan, no way is Clarence paying their full share.

In terms of land, it is almost as big as Buffalo and it is getting built out. All of that area needs patrol. When Amherst was smaller, it started its police department because it wanted the level of service it currently has.

Because Clarence gets coverage from the APD, State and ECSD currently, there is no such demand.

[RPD86]

No, you don't necessarily have to go with the higher pay, when merging services. The Town of Clay, New York (north of Syracuse) residents voted, 3:1 in favor, to abolish its police dept.(June 23, 2008) and contract for dedicated patrol services from Onondaga Sheriff's Office. The officers were offered jobs with the sheriff's office, at lesser pay. If you don't believe me, go look it up. The town is saving over 1 million per year, by going with contracted cars. The town has a population of 60,000 and is 52 sq.mi. and abolished their 16 member police dept.

Regarding the comment that Amherst Police Dept. provides services to Clarence, that is not true. The primary police agency, for Clarence, is the ECSO and assisted by NYSP, when needed. The Amherst police are called ONLY when urgent backup is needed and the NYSP are not available, which is very uncommon. Amherst provides urgent assistance to all police agencies, when called. They respond, when called for emergency backup by ECSO, NYSP, Buffalo, Tonawanda and Lancaster or any other agency requesting assistance.

Regarding the idea of merging local municipal police agencies. FACT: there is no enabling legislation, in New York State, allowing such a move. Towns may not contract or with other towns for police services; towns and villages may contract with the sheriff. That being said, their are provisions, in state law, allowing villages to contract with towns for police services, the caveat is the village must be within the town with whom they are contracting. The reverse is also true.

This is based on jurisdictional logic. The sheriff has jurisdiction in all the county. A town police agency has jurisdiction in a village, within town boundaries, even if the village has its own police department.

There a provisions, in state law, for the creation of police districts. They have their own board of commissioners and are autonomous from village, town and county government; analogous to school and fire districts.

An example of this is Suffix county, on Long Island. They created a county police district. All residents, even if there town has a police dept., must pay property tax to the district. So, now they pay local town property tax for their own police, property tax to police district and a portion of their county property tax for the sheriff's office.

You wonder way did they not get rid of their sheriff's office. Well . . . because it's constitutionally mandated to exist. Like all other sheriff's offices, in New York (except NYC), they are still a police agency that provides correctional, civil and criminal law enforcement services.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

So, if there is a will, there is a way.
I'll be interested to see where the court battle goes. I figured the union wouldn't give up so easily.....

And thanks to RPD (is that right?) for the info.


"CLAY, N.Y. -- An overwhelming decision by voters in Clay to abolish the town police department and merge with the Onondaga County Sheriff's Office may be a clear message more consolidation efforts statewide are on the way.

The vote was 4,160 to 1,865 to move forward with the merger, which is scheduled to be complete by July 7.

Gov. David Paterson earlier this year cited Clay's proposal as an example of what needs to happen for more efficient, affordable, sensible government statewide.

"This is just a tremendous opportunity for us in this region to move forward," County Executive Joanie Mahoney said Monday night. "The county stands ready to partner with any of the towns that see opportunities like this."

Some towns in the county already have had conversations with Mahoney about similar mergers, she said, although she didn't name those towns.

"I think people were waiting to see what the climate was with the voters, and I think they made it really clear that the time has come for a more modern, efficient way of doing business," she said.

More than 200 absentee ballots are still to be counted in Clay, Town Clerk Vivian Mason said, but with such a lopsided margin -- 69 percent to 31 percent -- they wouldn't make a difference.

Clay Town Supervisor Jim Rowley called the vote a victory for taxpayers.

"This was a great deal from the beginning," Rowley said. "Hopefully, it'll be the start of something around the region."

Clay's five-year contract with the county calls for the sheriff's office to provide two patrol cars in Clay, 24 hours a day, seven days a week -- the same service currently provided by the Clay PD, Rowley said.

The Clay Police Department's 2008 operating budget is $2.4 million. Abolishing the department will make town tax bills drop 20 percent, Rowley said.

The town's payment to the county, estimated at $1.3 million the first year, covers the officers' salaries and the cost of keeping them on patrol. They town will save as much as $17 million over 10 years, Rowley said."

For the full story:

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.s...ts_poli_1.html

[sharky]

cutting medicare/caid, merging the thruway authority into the DOT would also help

[Add It Up]

No, you don't necessarily have to go with the higher pay, when merging services. The Town of Clay, New York (north of Syracuse) residents voted, 3:1 in favor, to abolish its police dept.(June 23, 2008) and contract for dedicated patrol services from Onondaga Sheriff's Office. The officers were offered jobs with the sheriff's office, at lesser pay. If you don't believe me, go look it up. The town is saving over 1 million per year, by going with contracted cars. The town has a population of 60,000 and is 52 sq.mi. and abolished their 16 member police dept.

Knowing the town of Clay pretty well, I would probably say that most of the people living there didn't know they had a police department (i.e. only 2 patrol cars), so switching to the Sheriff was probably not a big deal. They are fairly removed from the city of Syracuse. But in Amherst, don't assume that people aren't willing to pay more for their own police force-especially in the first ring suburb areas.

[Cgoodsp466]

Your absolutely correct, regarding agencies that are strictly part-time, however, when you compare apples to apples (i.e. full-time vs. full-time agencies) the EC sheriff's office is the least expensive police agency, in Erie County; and, I may add in most counties of New York.

Sheriff employees, in New York state must pay into the retirement system and do not have binding arbitration on benefits; local municipalities and the state must pay the pay the tab for retirement benefits, for their police. That's why deputies sheriff, in New York, will never be able to catch up to the salaries and benefits of local municipal police and the state police.

If residents want their police to be part-time, to save on benefit costs, then they need to bring that up to their local legislator and executive. My only question would be is "what kind of individuals would you attract to work at a part-time job?"

If that's the answer, lets make all our public employees part-time! But, what would we as taxpayers get back in quality of services?

You have to be public service! What kind of people are drawn to public service jobs? Lazy ones who dont have the balls or brains to work where they have to produce. I love the words quality of Service? Tell me he who loves to spend my money about services? I dont need you short bus riders anymore.

[Cgoodsp466]

Knowing the town of Clay pretty well, I would probably say that most of the people living there didn't know they had a police department (i.e. only 2 patrol cars), so switching to the Sheriff was probably not a big deal. They are fairly removed from the city of Syracuse. But in Amherst, don't assume that people aren't willing to pay more for their own police force-especially in the first ring suburb areas.

This should be the NY State Symbol.