you dont get it

[WNYresident]

From Topix.com

you dont get it 10 hrs ago


union leaders are elected by the membership and can be replaced. if the membership doesn't like the job they are doing they can vote them out. people cry about good paying jobs leaving this area and how depressed it is,well the difference between a union company's bid and a non-union companys bid only differs slightly and the big guys at the top line their pockets and they pay their workers the bare minimum so they don't leave.all the union is doing is fighting for a living wage and to protect its members jobs. so they can live comfortably.lets say all unions were abolished from this area. you'd have a whole bunch of people trying to feed their family's and pay their bills on $10-$15 an hour. how good is that for this area? out of town contractors come in and cut our throats on construction projects and then take MILLIONS of dollars in profit back from which they came! so what good does that do to stimulate my area???? I personally am in an apprenticeship program now and we recieve state of the art training for 5 years to recieve those wages. so maybe,just maybe, you should have a clue before you start blindly bashing everyone involved.

So a company comes and does a project and money leaves the area.

People run to walmart and HAND thier money over which leaves everyday.. what's the difference?

Why should there be laws to protect a small group of organized employees that works for our community?

Every small local self employeed business has to compete on the open market as should local 234, local 123 or who ever. Why are they allowed to have a monopoly on services if local businesses can't?

[ILOVEDNY]

From Topix.com



So a company comes and does a project and money leaves the area.

People run to walmart and HAND thier money over which leaves everyday.. what's the difference?

Why should there be laws to protect a small group of organized employees that works for our community?

Every small local self employeed business has to compete on the open market as should local 234, local 123 or who ever. Why are they allowed to have a monopoly on services if local businesses can't?

And when it comes to NYS public works projects, we are not allowed to freely compete. All this due to the NYS Dept. of Labors "prevailing wage" provision. In my industry, that equates to about $98.00/hr.

[winfield31]

union leaders are elected by the membership and can be replaced. if the membership doesn't like the job they are doing they can vote them out. people cry about good paying jobs leaving this area and how depressed it is,well the difference between a union company's bid and a non-union companys bid only differs slightly and the big guys at the top line their pockets and they pay their workers the bare minimum so they don't leave.all the union is doing is fighting for a living wage and to protect its members jobs. so they can live comfortably.lets say all unions were abolished from this area. you'd have a whole bunch of people trying to feed their family's and pay their bills on $10-$15 an hour. how good is that for this area? out of town contractors come in and cut our throats on construction projects and then take MILLIONS of dollars in profit back from which they came! so what good does that do to stimulate my area???? I personally am in an apprenticeship program now and we recieve state of the art training for 5 years to recieve those wages. so maybe,just maybe, you should have a clue before you start blindly bashing everyone involved.
rez , a group of ours tried to vote out our supposed union reps years ago , "they" had the numbers & killed our cadidates , so we tried to run for just one position , the one guy we thought may be popular , the present union reps knew what we were doing & just killed him off also............my union sleeps with the administration , but only represents their people , I can't tell you who as it would "out" me.........Are they crooked ? They have the numbers , to the victor goes the spoils , & they take advantage of the loopholes , do I like it ? No. But it will take years & different union members to realize what this particular group is doing.........yes some union leaders are scumbags , like the Local 17 guys are , they're not dangerous like Local 17 could/can be , but they're what give unions a bad name , but it's not the entire membership that's crooked...................

[cookie]

Winfield:how good is that for this area? out of town contractors come in and cut our throats on construction projects and then take MILLIONS of dollars in profit back from which they came! so what good does that do to stimulate my area????

You have the same right to go out of your area to bid jobs and bring money into the area. It's not a one way street.
Getting things done for less saves money that can be reinvested in one way or another, whether it be business expansion, creating jobs, or just having more disposable income to spend at local merchants.

[winfield31]

Winfield:how good is that for this area? out of town contractors come in and cut our throats on construction projects and then take MILLIONS of dollars in profit back from which they came! so what good does that do to stimulate my area????

You have the same right to go out of your area to bid jobs and bring money into the area. It's not a one way street.
Getting things done for less saves money that can be reinvested in one way or another, whether it be business expansion, creating jobs, or just having more disposable income to spend at local merchants.

none of what I copied & pasted from the rez , nor my reply is good for WNY nor the nation in general , but it's not all the union members , mostly the leadership , & their "favorites"................WE TRIED to vote out ours , WE DIDN'T have the numbers to do so.............it's just like the rez stated in my case , "taxation w/out representation.............." ! I know as well as anyone...........

[LHardy]

It does my heart good to see more eyes' are now open.

[Sylvan]

Getting things done for less saves money that can be reinvested in one way or another...

Thats somewhat true, but paying more for better quality can be more important even if it takes longer to complete, and with less workers. The problem is people are impatient, they cant handle adjustment to their routiine, and they want immediate results.

[cookie]

Thats somewhat true, but paying more for better quality can be more important even if it takes longer to complete, and with less workers. The problem is people are impatient, they cant handle adjustment to their routiine, and they want immediate results.

yes, of course there will always be those type of people, but when it comes to town/city/county projects, when have they ever made time an issue?

Getting good value comes down to taking the time up front to set standards THEN send out a call for bids. Instead we often have people who are in charge of sending out calls for bids that have no clue what's involved in the project, the chosen bid is whatever is lowest and the taxpayer is left paying for repairs before the project is even finished. (yes, a little exaggeration, but you get my point I hope).
Set standards, then take the bid that will save the most. Everyone wins.

[Comet]

out of town contractors come in and cut our throats on construction projects and then take MILLIONS of dollars in profit back from which they came! so what good does that do to stimulate my area???? I personally am in an apprenticeship program now and we recieve state of the art training for 5 years to recieve those wages. so maybe,just maybe, you should have a clue before you start blindly bashing everyone involved.

Let's take a $50M public project for City of Buffalo. Say its the construction of a new City Hall.

The City puts out a bid for a General Contractor and the low bidder is a Missouri Firm. What do you think is going to happen? That GC is going to manage the project with it own internal project managers, true.. and the "profit" will be kept by the Firm, but in public sector projects, profit is usually in the range of what, 10% of the total bid? Sometimes its ACTUALLY A FIXED FEE.

So now, what happens to the rest of the 90%??? My bet is it gets paid to all the local subcontractors and trade specialties and locally hired laborers that work on the Project. The Missouri firm may pay to send its project managers here but they are NOT transporting all the workers, they hire local workers!!!

So, in reality, this fear of the big mean out of state contractor is bogus. Further, its against the law to have a local preference (at least with federal funds in the Project). Shame on the local contractors if they cant sharpen the pencil and win the work against an out of town firm.

So all this blather about the App training law being for the purpose of protecting local workers is another pile of crap.

Plain and simple it was a Union Ploy to drive their non union shop competitors either out of business or to force them to unionize.

[LHardy]

Plain and simple it was a Union Ploy to drive their non union shop competitors either out of business or to force them to unionize.

And the truth shall set you free!

[GG716]

This is exactly what I cannot figure out.

When a project needs to be done. Say a bridge built, the county along with everyone else does it's studies and sets the guidelines, requirements, specs and time frame for the job to insure it's done properly. Weather it is local, outside, union or non-union contractors or the government itself they the bridge has to be built a specific way using specific materials and design. The bridge still has to be inspected by the same people to insure thoes requirements have been met.

The unions try to spin it around and make everyone think by using an outside company the bridge will be made out of used popsicle sticks and twine, would take longer to complete, while using illegal aliens for labor.
It's complete bogus. The ONLY difference is that an outside contractor would be awarded the contract, manage and award the subcontractors.
The subcontractors would consist of almost all local labors with only a few outside managers.
Most likely the same union contractors that would be used has the project been awarded locally.
Now if an outside company can do the EXACT SAME JOB for LESS MONEY meeting the SAME REQUIREMENTS. Doesn’t that say something about the local union companies and/or government workers/management?


The local people need to shut up stop bitching and trying to create laws that would only bring the cost up to the taxpayers and start figuring out a way to become more efficient and lower their own costs.

[kma516]

My ex is a traffic systems engineer. He and his company would bid on contracts around the country for installing state, county, or municipal traffic systems. I worked with his company for 2 years assisting the regional manager who was reponsible for preparing the company's sealed bids. A huge portion of project cost is going to be for materials, supplies, parts (line items). The general contractors looking to bid will get quotes from various suppliers prior to coming up with their bid proposal. They look to local subcontractors for quotes on service line items. General rule of thumb for materials, supplies, parts, and equipment rental is look to the local community and surrounding area first for said suppliers and only go beyond the area when the line items aren't locally/regionally available or the prices are significantly higher than they can get elsewhere (even after factoring in transporation costs). Once they have all the line items calculated, they then need to calculate man hours to perform the project to include cost of benefits to the employees. There's a lot more involved with multipliers, etc but long story short ... of that $50 million project cost, most will probably be spent in the local economy. The profit margin earned by the contractor is FAR less than most realize. Depending on the industry/project and just how tough/tight the competition is, it can be as little as 1/4% to 1% ... or in this case with the hypothetical $50 million - $125,00 to $500,000 ... not the millions you think. Obviously they try for much higher margins but even then it's not the millions you think.

[cookie]

How many bridge construction companies are located here?

[GG716]

How many bridge construction companies are located here?

I honestly have no idea tho I did find this:
www.abcdwny.org

I just used a bridge as an example, could substitute bridge with road, building, or anything else.

[citymouse]

Let's take a $50M public project for City of Buffalo. Say its the construction of a new City Hall.

The City puts out a bid for a General Contractor and the low bidder is a Missouri Firm. What do you think is going to happen? That GC is going to manage the project with it own internal project managers, true.. and the "profit" will be kept by the Firm, but in public sector projects, profit is usually in the range of what, 10% of the total bid? Sometimes its ACTUALLY A FIXED FEE.

So now, what happens to the rest of the 90%??? My bet is it gets paid to all the local subcontractors and trade specialties and locally hired laborers that work on the Project. The Missouri firm may pay to send its project managers here but they are NOT transporting all the workers, they hire local workers!!!

So, in reality, this fear of the big mean out of state contractor is bogus. Further, its against the law to have a local preference (at least with federal funds in the Project). Shame on the local contractors if they cant sharpen the pencil and win the work against an out of town firm.

So all this blather about the App training law being for the purpose of protecting local workers is another pile of crap.

Plain and simple it was a Union Ploy to drive their non union shop competitors either out of business or to force them to unionize.

Maybe in Disney Land it would be a Missouri Firm. In Buffalo it would be a well connected local guy like Cimminelli. He may subcontract the work to a Missouri firm, and they will bring in the guy's from outside NY. And when they leave they will take the money they made outside the area. But The local guy who runs the show makes the big bucks. And he gets to keep more because he didn't have to pay a decent wage to local workers. There is a history of using non-union guys alongside union guys on prevailing wage jobs. The problem was that the non-union contractors would get, say, fifteen dollars an hour per worker and only pay the worker ten. He'd pocket the rest.
This was a common practice a few years back, especially when they got away with using illegals. But you don't hear about that in the Anti-union Buffalo Media.
The Apprentice bill protects the local worker. It's not a load of crap.