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Thread: West Seneca's Town Budget

  1. #1
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    West Seneca's Town Budget

    On a number of occasions people have lamented about the lack of detail contained in the Town Budget of prior years. While researching the question of what is statutorily required in the budget I ran accros the case that is attached to this post. Do you believe the itemization of our Town Budget is sufficient for our Town Board to exercise its oversight functions?
    Attached Files Attached Files
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

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    Member Spirit of Ebenezer's Avatar
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    Okay I'll take the bait. How does this issue from 1952 pertain to the West Seneca Town Budget. Before you elaborate, I'd think it proper and fair to clarify, before you begin to paint with your very broad brush, that only Councilmembers Bove and Graber can possibly be held accountable for any budget concerns you will be pontificating upon. Wally, Meegan and Dale Clarke have not yet worked on or presented a town budget. I know you wouldn't extend them the proper courtesy to absolve them of past budget woes. I anticipate though you will serving notice to them on how to properly do so.
    Last edited by Spirit of Ebenezer; March 20th, 2008 at 06:46 PM.

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    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    [Rhetorical Question]
    Our state Constitution dates back to 1938 should we just ignore it?
    Miranda v. Arizona goes back to the 1966 can the police stop reading suspects their rights?
    [/Rhetorical Question]

    This is about the Town Budget that is approved by the Town Board as the legislative body. I do not care who occupied or occupies those positions. The question is can the Town Board properly exercise its fiscal oversight role given the level of itemization we have seen in the Town Budgets. Can we pay attention to the issue and not those involved or perceived to be involved?
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

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    Member Spirit of Ebenezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren
    The question is can the Town Board properly exercise its fiscal oversight role given the level of itemization we have seen in the Town Budgets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit of Ebenezer
    I anticipate though you will serving notice to them on how to properly do so.
    At the risk of being rhetorical, I will aver that I was correct in my presumption.

  5. #5
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Would you prefer we have this public discussion and reach a consensus on what we as constituents would like the budgets to contain as well as what is required by law, or should I just wait until they do it wrong and commence an Article 78 proceeding?
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

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    I see the schmuck has returned. Ya threw the line out and here we go. Before your pals up and attack me, you all have to agree on one thing: see opening sentence.

  7. #7
    Member Psycho1's Avatar
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    Sorry Dan

    Before I respond, I'd like Spirit and Erly to sit down and take a deep breath.

    Dan, after reading over your attachment, I only see a vague relevance to the current budget, and its adoption.

    First, it cites "Town Law, sec. 112, for the Town of Hempstead. Does WS have a similar law in place that was violated by the previous administration?

    Second, it was denied and opined, by the court, that while the court agreed with the petitioner that the Town failed to follow the law and itemize the proposed expenditures, the ruling "should serve as a guide in budget-making in the future."

    The court offered no relief or would force the Town do prepare a new budget due to "possible chaos if adoption be delayed."

    Unfortunately, we have no recourse with the former administration, unless, it was discovered there were illegal activities involved. I have confidence that the new administration will offer a more detailed budget in the future.
    I'd rather be hated for who I am... than loved for who I'm not!

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    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    The Reference to "Town Law, sec. 112" was to the NYS Town Law not a particular law for the Town of Hempstead. This law has since been renumbered and is currently Town Law section 107.

    No relief was granted in that particular case due to the timing of the action and although it provided no relief for the challenged year 1952 if this ruling was not complied with for the budget of 1953 you can bet top dollar another action would have been brought more timely and with more force with this ruling in hand.

    You are correct about recourse against the former administration. However, this is not primarily about recourse, it is about moving forward. If by correcting at least the itemization level of the budget and revewing the finances of the town improprieties are found that recourse can be had then that would be a bonus.

    I would also like to see multiyear financial planning implemented. In addition to being a valuable tool, multiyear financial planning is now a requirement for all cities and three villages in New York State. In fiscal year 2008, 41 cities will also have to submit fiscal performance plans that show recent and planned future policy changes that will improve their fiscal stability.

    I would also like to see the two or more prior years budgeted v. actual comparisons.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  9. #9
    Member Spirit of Ebenezer's Avatar
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    Daniel T. Warren a.k.a. -The Smartest man in West Seneca

    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren
    should I just wait until they do it wrong and commence an Article 78 proceeding?
    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit of Ebenezer
    I anticipate though you will serving notice to them on how to properly do so.
    ....I rest my case

  10. #10
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    So this means that you are satisfied with level of itemization and its current form, correct?
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

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    [QUOTE=Psycho1]Before I respond, I'd like Spirit and Erly to sit down and take a deep breath.

    Psycho, I am sitting cuz it's too hard to type standing up. As far as takin a deep breath, might not have many left. But what I do have is common sense. Hopefully, you do also. If the man is so concerned, why post here? Go to a TB meeting and vent. ASK QUESTIONS. Call Wally. Call Tina. Call Dale. Call Shelia. Call Vince. ASK THEM. But that's too easy. In case Warren didn't notice, there's three new Board members. The man needs an audience to try and talk down to others. And for the people who have PM'ed me, you know what I'm talkin about. But being as smart and revered (by some) as he is, how could this escape him? I've said it more than once: the man is a SHAM. Yet you and others want to shine his shoes when he posts. I've read and re-read all of your and other members of the WS threads where the majority of you exalt him. Why? For the life of me, I'm dumbfounded. My only conclusion is that you and he and most of the others are pals. If there's another explanation, let me know. All of you. PM me or post here but I have to know. Even from "you know who" who said they were only going to scan the WS threads and not post anymore, speak up. Let's all post and like this post, let's keep it civil. I welcome all replies and if you prove me wrong, I promise to back off and apologize. The ball is in your court(s).

  12. #12
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    How do you know that I do not communicate with them on these and other issues? I have attended most of the Town Board meetings in recent times. In fact I know how easy it is for you to verify this, but you would rather remain either ignorant or put up a charade.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  13. #13
    Member Spirit of Ebenezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren
    So this means that you are satisfied with level of itemization and its current form, correct?
    I am satisfied knowing that a new town board is in place. The task at hand for them most likely is not an enviable one, given the malfeasance of the previous regime. Issues, such as the budget, could or if you prefer, should be better defined. That said, your finger in their face at this stage is innapropriate. It borders on a guilty before innocent implication. If you had done this with the previous board, which I find odd since you were around when they were, I would not counter you.

    It's you grandstanding, again. This thread is simply about you trumpeting up yourself. You know full well there is no real case for argument against your boast as far as the new board and budgets go.

  14. #14
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Isn't part of having a representative form of government letting those that represent you know what you think, want and desire?

    Shouldn't the people of West Seneca have a public conversation on these issues?

    Or should we just assume that these elected representatives will devine what we want and do what is in our "best interest" without the benefit of our input and public dialogue?
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  15. #15
    Member Spirit of Ebenezer's Avatar
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    I believe this is called a "conundrum"

    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren
    should "we" just assume that these elected representatives will devine what "we" want and do what is in "our" "best interest" without the benefit of our input and public dialogue?
    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren
    First "I" do not represent any citizens. "I" represent myself in matters that "I" believe affect "me" and my sensibilities.
    Which is it Dan ? I, our, we or me ? I think it suffice to say with you it's "whatever suits the situation".

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