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Thread: Lee ! 4.2 million ?

  1. #1
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    Question Lee ! 4.2 million ?

    The State of New York approved the Collocation Program and provided the Erie County Department of Social Services with a $4.2 million grant that will fund the program over a three-year period.

    The project was approved by former county executive Joel Giambra, but seems to not have found favor with Collins. The project did find favor with the Erie County Fiscal Stability Board, was scheduled to be in place in April 2008 and was already in operation.

    Quote from Lee's front page article:


    Erie County Medical Center Corporations Division of Chemical Dependency, which has been recognized for the past several decades as a leader in providing substance abuse services to the community of Erie County, was informed last Friday that the worthwhile program was being cancelled.

    Considering the project is being funded by New York State, has potential enormous benefits to a community suffering socio-economic issues and has no virtual cost to the taxpayers, its termination is questionable.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    No disrespect meant , but did you actually mean to say , "No virtual cost to the taxpayers"


    Where does the 4.2 Million dollars come from ?
    Who pays after the first few "subsidized years" ?


    Maybe I misread something ?




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    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  2. #2
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    Could someone please explain this program to me?
    As far as I understand it links CPS and substance abuse counselors together to treat the parents being investigated by CPS for substance abuse problems???

    Is the 4.2 mil being used to treat the parents CPS find have a drug problem or simply to link them together?
    In my opinion these parents should pay the costs of rehab themselves with the money saved by not using drugs if they want to keep their kids. If not doesn’t their insurance already pick up the tab?
    Now if it's to link CPS, Social services and counselors together doesn’t 4.2 mil sound pretty high considering CPS already investigates weather parents have drug problems effecting their kids?

    Don’t get me wrong by no means am I saying it’s ok for parents to use drugs, around their kids or not. But what services does this program actually provide that isn’t already in place?


    And why is this in the lancaster forum?

  3. #3
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    4248:
    Considering the project is being funded by New York State, has potential enormous benefits to a community suffering socio-economic issues and has no virtual cost to the taxpayers, its termination is questionable.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    No disrespect meant , but did you actually mean to say , "No virtual cost to the taxpayers"

    Where does the 4.2 Million dollars come from ?
    Who pays after the first few "subsidized years" ?
    I well understand your point on "no virtual cost to the taxpayers." As sate taxpayers we are the ultimate funders. However, what was meant here was no cost to the county taxpayer.

    I also agree that too often public funds are spent in grants that provide no intrinsic community value.

    This program is 100% funded by the state for a three-year period and will continue to be funded by the state if it is deemed successful.

    Fifty percent of the Child Protection Services responses are drug and alcohol related. At present only drug abuse referrals are given and follow-up is near non-existent. The county drug counselors will assist in providing treatment, follow up, and attempt to provide a safe environment for all family members.

    It’s a good program and politics should not stand in the way. This program was scheduled to go into operation a year ago, was already in progress and was abruptly shut down.

  4. #4
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    Talking ?

    As another poster asked:

    "Is the 4.2 mil being used to treat the parents CPS find have a drug problem or simply to link them together?

    In my opinion these parents should pay the costs of rehab themselves with the money saved by not using drugs if they want to keep their kids.

    If not doesn’t their insurance already pick up the tab?

    Now if it's to link CPS, Social services and counselors together doesn’t $4.2 mil sound pretty high considering CPS already investigates weather parents have drug problems effecting their kids? (end)


    Its seems like possibly another layer of tax dollar funded jobs . That will be added to our ever increasing tax burden. I don't question the need or probable service necessity.

    Do we truly want Government , using tax dollars , to be our largest employer ? Are we trying to fill the employment gap(caused by loss of industry) - with Government supported agencies ?

    Why not add that annual $4.1 million to help fund new businesses - why not increase funding for S.B.A. or such endeavors ?

    If more people had jobs - less would need/live tax dollar supported , governmentally supported/controlled lives ! ?




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    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=4248]As another poster asked:

    "Is the 4.2 mil being used to treat the parents CPS find have a drug problem or simply to link them together?
    1) Parents who are reported to CPS for child abuse or neglect and screen positive for chemical depency, and their family members who are deemed to need chemical dependency prevention or treatment services; and

    2) Persons in need of supervision who screen positive for chemical dependency, and their family members who are deemed to need chemical dependency prevention or treatment services.

    In other words, the program would serve the entire family.

    In my opinion these parents should pay the costs of rehab themselves with the money saved by not using drugs if they want to keep their kids.
    If not doesn’t their insurance already pick up the tab?
    If they have insurance or means to pay they do. According to statistics provided from other municipalities using the program, for every dollar spent in identifying and assessing an abuse issue and working with agencies for treatment and prevention.

    Now if it's to link CPS, Social services and counselors together doesn’t $4.2 mil sound pretty high considering CPS already investigates weather parents have drug problems effecting their kids? (end)
    Understaffed and inexperienced in dealing with drug and alcohol abuse issues, assessment and follow up procedures for treatment and resolve are oft times ineffective.

    Its seems like possibly another layer of tax dollar funded jobs . That will be added to our ever increasing tax burden. I don't question the need or probable service necessity.
    Yes indeed you have questioned the need and value of the program. The $4.2 million had been allocated for this program a year ago and the program was just taking off when Collins aborted it.

    You know as well as I do that if the state money is not spent on this program, it will go elsewhere - maybe to buy a few clocks.

    Do we truly want Government , using tax dollars , to be our largest employer ? Are we trying to fill the employment gap (caused by loss of industry) - with Government supported agencies ?
    No one wants to see more public sector jobs expecially for providing service duplication. I personally don't believe that's the case here.

    Why not add that annual $4.1 million to help fund new businesses - why not increase funding for S.B.A. or such endeavors ?
    Like if we didn't already have enough state and local IDA'S handing out monies to businesses that rarely provide the jobs promised. This is a program that benefits the community as a whole.

    If more people had jobs - less would need/live tax dollar supported , governmentally supported/controlled lives ! ?
    True, but how does not fit here?

    I am retired and have no family members working for the county or in the public sector. My support of this program is therefore not based on self interest. I just think its a good program.

    The $4.2 million has been allocated by the state and should the program fail to be successful, it will be terminated. There have been few rigoruous evaluations of the program and the Erie County Collocation Program was chosen as one of two for that purpose.

    The theory behind the collocation model is that service integration across the child welfare and chemical dependency service sysystems can help to improve both child welfare and chemical dependeny outcomes by incresing the identification of CPS and involved families with chemical dependency problems, facilitating access to to treatment and prevention services, enhancing linkage with support services in the community , increasing engagement and retention intreatment, and improving service planning and coordination btween chemical dependency service providers and child welfare workers.

    Services provided:

    1) Comprehensive assessment of need for chemical dependency treatment or prevention;

    2) Timely linkage to appropriate chemical dependency treatment or prevention services;

    3) timely linkage to other community services to remove barriers to treatment (e.g., childcare, transportation, housing);

    4) Mentoring and ongoing support to promte engagement and retention in treatment; and

    5) Advocacy to assist in negotiating the often conflicting demands of the child welfare system, chemical dependency service system, court system and other systems.

    Its a good program. Whatever reasons Collins has for aborting the program just doesn't seem to make sense - at least until we hear from him.
    Last edited by Lee Chowaniec; March 13th, 2008 at 11:24 AM.

  6. #6
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    I think I get it...


    From CPS web site:

    Currently
    "CPS protects children from physical abuse, neglect, and sexual abuse by their parents and caretakers. CPS also helps families obtain needed services to guarantee their children are safe from harm."

    "What is considered maltreatment/neglect?"
    "Using drugs or alcohol to the extent that the parent loses control of his/her actions."


    So with this program CPS would become involved not only when the child is harmed by drug or alcohol use but when drugs or alcohol are used by parents?

    CPS is so screwed up to begin with I doubt the money would help. The investigators are so poorly trained and non effective. Either by falsly accusing people of abusing thier kids or not accusing them when they sould untill it's to late.

    Now with the extra money someone could call and say this kids mother has a glass of wine with dinner and they would be forced to be drug tested and seek help for their drinking problem.


    CPS can remove kids from thier home upon indication of their interpertation of abuse/neglect or do nothing. Thats about it currently. So the money wouldnt just be going to support another flawed social services program but to actually rebuild the department from the ground up? Hopefully a good percentage of the money would have been used to properly train these BA degree "social workers".

  7. #7
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    Talking I Agree with you , but !

    [quote=Lee Chowaniec]



    Understaffed and inexperienced in dealing with drug and alcohol abuse issues, assessment and follow up procedures for treatment and resolve are oft times ineffective. Agreed !



    Yes indeed you have questioned the need and value of the program.
    Just a friendly discussion !

    The $4.2 million had been allocated for this program a year ago and the program was just taking off when Collins aborted it.
    County Exec. Mr.Collins should explain this action . Agreed !

    You know as well as I do that if the state money is not spent on this program, it will go elsewhere - maybe to buy a few clocks.
    Has Ruffino made it to the County Level -



    No one wants to see more public sector jobs especially for providing service duplication. I personally don't believe that's the case here. OK!



    Like if we didn't already have enough state and local IDA'S handing out monies to businesses that rarely provide the jobs promised. This is a program that benefits the community as a whole.
    Another tax funded insider money pit in need of reform or dissolution !


    I am retired and have no family members working for the county or in the public sector. Never even imagined you did !

    My support of this program is therefore not based on self interest. I just think its a good program.
    I truly accept and believe that !

    The $4.2 million has been allocated by the state and should the program fail to be successful, it will be terminated. There have been few rigoruous evaluations of the program and the Erie County Collocation Program was chosen as one of two for that purpose.

    The theory behind the collocation model is that service integration across the child welfare and chemical dependency service sysystems can help to improve both child welfare and chemical dependeny outcomes by incresing the identification of CPS and involved families with chemical dependency problems, facilitating access to to treatment and prevention services, enhancing linkage with support services in the community , increasing engagement and retention intreatment, and improving service planning and coordination between chemical dependency service providers and child welfare workers.

    Services provided:

    1) Comprehensive assessment of need for chemical dependency treatment or prevention;

    2) Timely linkage to appropriate chemical dependency treatment or prevention services;

    3) timely linkage to other community services to remove barriers to treatment (e.g., childcare, transportation, housing);

    4) Mentoring and ongoing support to promte engagement and retention in treatment; and

    5) Advocacy to assist in negotiating the often conflicting demands of the child welfare system, chemical dependency service system, court system and other systems.

    Its a good program. Whatever reasons Collins has for aborting the program just doesn't seem to make sense - at least until we hear from him.[/quote

    Yes , again - He should explain - seems like a worth while program - lets ask why - I will and report any findings here ! I think Exec.Collins is trying to please many people - he's trying maybe too fast to trim the numbers - I believe he means well , but like Mr.Giambra - he wont find much help from inside. People want change/reform/tax relief - I isn't easy/popular when so many depend on so much !

    I have never questioned your sincerity or stand - never implied "selfish motives" on your part - Great respect for your unwavering Community Involvement.

    Keep the info flowing ! Even if I some times question - I am always willing to learn and adapt .

    Well , except for B.Giza-
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

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