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Thread: On the Web, talk is cheap . . . mean, ugly

  1. #1
    Member OneEmerald's Avatar
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    Tony Made The Front Page!

    http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/277483.html

    Well, the article was finally printed in the Buffalo News, you know, the one Tony has mentioned about online forums getting nasty and full of racism. It's long and barely mentions SpeakUp. Good job Tony! Nice pic too!

    WGRZ.com posted a small news story Jan. 16, disclosing that Key- Bank, an important tenant at the Broadway Market, plans to leave the historic market when its lease ends in April.
    The first few comments on the online WGRZ Buffalo Forum aimed some gentle sarcasm at the market’s executive director and ruminated on the impact of KeyBank’s departure. Then the racism started.
    “The more it gets blacker, the more decay and cancer you get,” wrote “James Z from Kaisertown.”
    There was more, much worse, which The News will not repeat.
    But that is what some online forums have become, where reasonable discussion can quickly degenerate into vile and nasty commentary — all behind a veil of anonymity.
    “Sometimes I think, man, don’t these people have mothers? How could they say that?” said Joe Marren, a Buffalo State College assistant professor of communication. “You can post something rude and it’s not really you, it’s your screen name.”
    The comment sections of news Web sites, online message boards and Internet chat rooms are growing in popularity and attract thousands of comments each day.
    But they can become pockmarked with bigoted, homophobic, racist or defamatory language.
    It’s enough to make a person wonder if we’re a nation of hateful people, or is there something about the Web that brings out the worst in people?
    “It points out the kind of racism, and you sometimes find sexism, that is deep in this society,” said Frank B. Mesiah, president of the Buffalo chapter of the NAACP. “It’s changed. . . . But, down deep, these feelings are still there.”
    “Anonymity eliminates any kind of accountability for what you say on the Internet,” said Kelly McBride, ethics group leader for the Poynter Institute, which promotes good journalistic practices.
    The administrators of Web sites for The Buffalo News, Channel 2, the New York Times and scores of other news outlets are trying to figure out the best way to moderate these forums.
    They want to pull in readers and encourage a free flow of discussion, but they don’t want bile and venom to overrun their comment sections.
    “That’s a line that we have to walk every single day,” said Ellen Crooke, Channel 2’s vice president of news, who took down the Broadway Market comment thread last week after a reporter alerted her to it.
    On the Web, if you have anything to say, it’s easy to find an outlet and an audience.
    Comments turn vile
    In addition to the scores of message boards and online forums, most news organizations give readers a chance to comment.
    At their best, commenters share thoughtful opinions and amplify the coverage of a topic, often providing ideas worth investigating by reporters.
    “It can be a very effective community connection tool for newspapers. It can be a way to draw people to the newspaper Web site multiple times a day,” said Beth Lawton, manager of digital media for the Newspaper Association of America.
    Unfortunately, constructive comments sometimes are overwhelmed by vile postings, according to news reports.
    In Miami, the NAACP chapter complained last October after a story on the Miami Herald Web site about the death of a black teenager prompted a number of hateful responses.
    One comment said the death should be celebrated because it saves taxpayers money that would have been spent on incarcerating him.
    Not every post targets blacks. The Orange County Register in California profiled an obese 40-year-old woman who didn’t know she was pregnant until two days before she gave birth to her son.
    This generally positive story drew a wave of false attacks from readers on the woman’s purported laziness, unhealthy lifestyle and even claims that she made money off her story.
    “Really, it’s next to impossible to baby-sit [the comment section] 100 percent of the time,” said Anthony Fracasso, founder of www.speakupwny.com , an online message board that covers local politics.
    An outlet for opinions
    The Buffalo News Web site isn’t immune to viciousness.
    An “Inside the News” blog item from December on criticism aimed by Christians at the movie “The Golden Compass” drew several nasty replies.
    “If the world’s largest pedophile ring is against it, it must be a great movie,” a poster named “Tom” wrote.
    And a News blog entry from November on the deaths of four Buffalo Zoo polar bears brought a racist comment from “Mark” that the zoo hires too many uncaring black employees.
    The comments were removed after a reporter showed them to an editor.
    Why do online forums generate disturbing responses?
    “These feelings pre-exist, and they always pre-existed. And they were the kind of things people didn’t really share unless they were in like company,” said Poynter’s McBride.
    But the Web gives people who hold these views an outlet for their views, and topics involving race, immigration and sexual orientation consistently attract vile comments, she said.
    Every message board has its collection of dedicated posters.
    “James Z from Kaisertown” regularly comments on WGRZ.com and buffalonews. com.
    Someone recently started a comment thread in the WGRZ Web forum with this question: “who is sick of this guy and his nonsense??????????”
    “James Z” told The News by e-mail that he is a 10-year U.S. Navy veteran who now lives on disability payments and making stock trades from home.
    “I love my country and I’m sick and tired of seeing it go down the . . . tubes,” he said, without providing his full name.
    The issue of how best to keep comment forums open yet free of offensive remarks is the subject of serious debate.
    Flagging offenders
    Most sites employ software that automatically blocks posts containing certain swear words.
    A few have staff members read through every comment before it is posted on the site, but this is labor-intensive and potential comments can be held in limbo for hours.
    So the vast majority of Web forums — including The Buffalo News and WGRZ.com — rely largely on visitors to flag offensive remarks.
    WGRZ.com allows readers to comment on every story. Staffers do read through comments, but not until they are posted on the site.
    “We want people to have the freedom to have a voice,” said Crooke, the WGRZ executive.
    The Buffalo News allows readers to comment on its blog entries only, a policy that is an attempt to focus the conversation on a few key topics, said John Neville, an assistant managing editor at The News.
    The News does not read or edit reader comments before they are posted, but staffers do regularly read through comments after they appear on the site, Neville said.
    “We allow a lot of leeway,” he said.
    Commenters aren’t required to register before posting, but they must adhere to a comment policy posted on every blog entry.
    “We are not responsible for the comments on this blog, but we reserve the right to remove any that are libelous, obscene, threatening, abusive, or otherwise offensive, and to block any user who does not follow these guidelines,” the policy states.
    At first, The News will take down comments that violate its comment policy, said Melinda Miller, a Web administrator.
    But a number of users have been permanently blocked from posting on News blogs due to continuous violations of that policy, Miller said. As of last week, that list includes James Z, she said.
    Do Web sites have a legal responsibility to do more to keep off offensive comments?
    Keeping it clean
    The law is evolving, but in general the host of a Web site can’t be held liable for a defamatory comment posted as long as the host has a policy of not making changes to comments, said Bill Raffel, a lawyer who teaches communication law at Buffalo State.
    Still, news organizations can and should do more to keep the conversation on their comment sections civil, observers said.
    “The first thing a news organization has to do is create a sound reader comment policy, make sure it’s highly visible and then adhere to it,” said Denny Wilkins, an associate professor of journalism and mass communication at St. Bonaventure University.
    The most successful comment sections have active staff moderation, including reporters and online editors who reply to comments, said Lawton, of the newspaper association.
    McBride also encourages news organizations to require people to register, with a verifiable e-mail address, before they are allowed to post on the site.
    Fracasso has banned some incorrigible offenders and he allows people to rate other regular commenters and to see everyone’s reputation score.
    But, Fracasso said, “I know, after four years of doing this, you’re never going to stop it.”
    swatson@buffnews.com
    Adopt an English Springer Spaniel.
    http://www.springerrescue.org
    "Striving to be the person
    that my dogs think I am"

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  2. #2
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    On the Web, talk is cheap . . . mean, ugly

    Fracasso said, “I know, after four years of doing this, you’re never going to stop it.”

    This is the article Tony mentioned a couple weeks ago. Let's hope this promotes discussion about how to use the power of the web to educate & reform . . . . instead of too often sinking into trivia & personal attacks.


    http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/277483.html

    FOCUS: ONLINE FORUMS
    On the Web, talk is cheap
    Online sites provideforums where chat scan turn mean, ugly


    By Stephen T. Watson NEWS STAFF REPORTER, Updated: 02/16/08 7:06 AM


    WGRZ.com posted a small news story Jan. 16, disclosing that Key- Bank, an important tenant at the Broadway Market, plans to leave the historic market when its lease ends in April.

    The first few comments on the online WGRZ Buffalo Forum aimed some gentle sarcasm at the market’s executive director and ruminated on the impact of KeyBank’s departure. Then the racism started.

    “The more it gets blacker, the more decay and cancer you get,” wrote “James Z from Kaisertown.”

    There was more, much worse, which The News will not repeat.

    But that is what some online forums have become, where reasonable discussion can quickly degenerate into vile and nasty commentary — all behind a veil of anonymity.

    “Sometimes I think, man, don’t these people have mothers? How could they say that?” said Joe Marren, a Buffalo State College assistant professor of communication. “You can post something rude and it’s not really you, it’s your screen name.”

    The comment sections of news Web sites, online message boards and Internet chat rooms are growing in popularity and attract thousands of comments each day.

    But they can become pockmarked with bigoted, homophobic, racist or defamatory language.

    It’s enough to make a person wonder if we’re a nation of hateful people, or is there something about the Web that brings out the worst in people?

    “It points out the kind of racism, and you sometimes find sexism, that is deep in this society,” said Frank B. Mesiah, president of the Buffalo chapter of the NAACP. “It’s changed. . . . But, down deep, these feelings are still there.”

    “Anonymity eliminates any kind of accountability for what you say on the Internet,” said Kelly McBride, ethics group leader for the Poynter Institute, which promotes good journalistic practices.

    The administrators of Web sites for The Buffalo News, Channel 2, the New York Times and scores of other news outlets are trying to figure out the best way to moderate these forums.

    They want to pull in readers and encourage a free flow of discussion, but they don’t want bile and venom to overrun their comment sections.

    “That’s a line that we have to walk every single day,” said Ellen Crooke, Channel 2’s vice president of news, who took down the Broadway Market comment thread last week after a reporter alerted her to it.

    On the Web, if you have anything to say, it’s easy to find an outlet and an audience.

    Comments turn vile

    In addition to the scores of message boards and online forums, most news organizations give readers a chance to comment.

    At their best, commenters share thoughtful opinions and amplify the coverage of a topic, often providing ideas worth investigating by reporters.

    “It can be a very effective community connection tool for newspapers. It can be a way to draw people to the newspaper Web site multiple times a day,” said Beth Lawton, manager of digital media for the Newspaper Association of America.

    Unfortunately, constructive comments sometimes are overwhelmed by vile postings, according to news reports.

    In Miami, the NAACP chapter complained last October after a story on the Miami Herald Web site about the death of a black teenager prompted a number of hateful responses.

    One comment said the death should be celebrated because it saves taxpayers money that would have been spent on incarcerating him.

    Not every post targets blacks. The Orange County Register in California profiled an obese 40-year-old woman who didn’t know she was pregnant until two days before she gave birth to her son.

    This generally positive story drew a wave of false attacks from readers on the woman’s purported laziness, unhealthy lifestyle and even claims that she made money off her story.

    “Really, it’s next to impossible to baby-sit [the comment section] 100 percent of the time,” said Anthony Fracasso, founder ofwww.speakupwny.com, an online message board that covers local politics.

    An outlet for opinions

    The Buffalo News Web site isn’t immune to viciousness.

    An “Inside the News” blog item from December on criticism aimed by Christians at the movie “The Golden Compass” drew several nasty replies.

    “If the world’s largest pedophile ring is against it, it must be a great movie,” a poster named “Tom” wrote.

    And a News blog entry from November on the deaths of four Buffalo Zoo polar bears brought a racist comment from “Mark” that the zoo hires too many uncaring black employees.

    The comments were removed after a reporter showed them to an editor.

    Why do online forums generate disturbing responses?

    “These feelings pre-exist, and they always pre-existed. And they were the kind of things people didn’t really share unless they were in like company,” said Poynter’s McBride.

    But the Web gives people who hold these views an outlet for their views, and topics involving race, immigration and sexual orientation consistently attract vile comments, she said.

    Every message board has its collection of dedicated posters.

    “James Z from Kaisertown” regularly comments on WGRZ.com and buffalonews. com.

    Someone recently started a comment thread in the WGRZ Web forum with this question: “who is sick of this guy and his nonsense??????????”

    “James Z” told The News by e-mail that he is a 10-year U.S. Navy veteran who now lives on disability payments and making stock trades from home.

    “I love my country and I’m sick and tired of seeing it go down the . . . tubes,” he said, without providing his full name.

    The issue of how best to keep comment forums open yet free of offensive remarks is the subject of serious debate.

    Flagging offenders

    Most sites employ software that automatically blocks posts containing certain swear words.

    A few have staff members read through every comment before it is posted on the site, but this is labor-intensive and potential comments can be held in limbo for hours.

    So the vast majority of Web forums — including The Buffalo News and WGRZ.com — rely largely on visitors to flag offensive remarks.

    WGRZ.com allows readers to comment on every story. Staffers do read through comments, but not until they are posted on the site.

    “We want people to have the freedom to have a voice,” said Crooke, the WGRZ executive.

    The Buffalo News allows readers to comment on its blog entries only, a policy that is an attempt to focus the conversation on a few key topics, said John Neville, an assistant managing editor at The News.

    The News does not read or edit reader comments before they are posted, but staffers do regularly read through comments after they appear on the site, Neville said.

    “We allow a lot of leeway,” he said.

    Commenters aren’t required to register before posting, but they must adhere to a comment policy posted on every blog entry.

    “We are not responsible for the comments on this blog, but we reserve the right to remove any that are libelous, obscene, threatening, abusive, or otherwise offensive, and to block any user who does not follow these guidelines,” the policy states.

    At first, The News will take down comments that violate its comment policy, said Melinda Miller, a Web administrator.

    But a number of users have been permanently blocked from posting on News blogs due to continuous violations of that policy, Miller said. As of last week, that list includes James Z, she said.

    Do Web sites have a legal responsibility to do more to keep off offensive comments?

    Keeping it clean

    The law is evolving, but in general the host of a Web site can’t be held liable for a defamatory comment posted as long as the host has a policy of not making changes to comments, said Bill Raffel, a lawyer who teaches communication law at Buffalo State.

    Still, news organizations can and should do more to keep the conversation on their comment sections civil, observers said.

    “The first thing a news organization has to do is create a sound reader comment policy, make sure it’s highly visible and then adhere to it,” said Denny Wilkins, an associate professor of journalism and mass communication at St. Bonaventure University.

    The most successful comment sections have active staff moderation, including reporters and online editors who reply to comments, said Lawton, of the newspaper association.

    McBride also encourages news organizations to require people to register, with a verifiable e-mail address, before they are allowed to post on the site.

    Fracasso has banned some incorrigible offenders and he allows people to rate other regular commenters and to see everyone’s reputation score.

    But, Fracasso said, “I know, after four years of doing this, you’re never going to stop it.”

    swatson@buffnews.com

  3. #3
    Unregistered bigpoppapuff's Avatar
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  4. #4
    Member winfield31's Avatar
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    Rez...........

    Wow , Rez , you good lookin' devil !! Funny how when you write someone you have an idea what they look like , then when you meet them face-to-face , nothing like you imagined ! Thought it was a good News article , well done , your anonymous status "has left the building" , just like ELVIS ........ "Hunka , hunka , burnin' love baby".........LOL !! Good for you Tony !
    Nothing gold can stay...............

    www.onlinebuffalo.com

  5. #5
    Member speaker's Avatar
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    Gotta see that, Tony.

    Don't give up on us yet, though. We might still get civilized!

    Speak Up is sort of like My Space. They post there like there is no tomorrow, talking about their drinking, sexual and drug habits like no one will ever know. But their pictures and locations are right there, and will never come down.

    Future employers won't have to ask for a resume pretty soon, just ask for the applicant's screen name.

  6. #6
    Member speaker's Avatar
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    Like that avatar, win!

  7. #7
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    Good Job Tony..No heres a word of advice..Do not go out to eat anywhere the next 2 or 3 days..people will recognize you and you will always have food in your mouth!
    WNY's link to the latest deals,printable coupons AND money saving tips!
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  8. #8
    Member winfield31's Avatar
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    Avatar.......

    Quote Originally Posted by speaker
    Like that avatar, win!
    Thanks speaker....LOL ! Nice article too......Shame , there's not enough pics , or cartoons in the article as then maybe some of our local politicians could understand it.........
    Nothing gold can stay...............

    www.onlinebuffalo.com

  9. #9
    Member citymouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speaker
    Gotta see that, Tony.

    Don't give up on us yet, though. We might still get civilized!

    Speak Up is sort of like My Space. They post there like there is no tomorrow, talking about their drinking, sexual and drug habits like no one will ever know. But their pictures and locations are right there, and will never come down.

    Future employers won't have to ask for a resume pretty soon, just ask for the applicant's screen name.
    I think, for the most part people here tend to be a little more focused, a little more private. I may have mentioned that I have an occasional drink.
    My sexual habits are my business, but I don't think anybody would care. I'm 54 years old and have been married for thirty five years. Who cares?
    "If you want to know what God thinks of money just look at the people he gave it to."

    By the way, what happened to biker? I miss the old coot.

  10. #10
    Member Riven37's Avatar
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    Ah

    Geee T,

    That report wasn't very positive was it....Just what you needed is to look bad in the papers.
    Riven37
    _________
    All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. Thomas Jefferson

  11. #11
    Member Incognito's Avatar
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    I was disappointed in how little they said about this site.

  12. #12
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    It wasn't an article on the site itself, it was an article on racism and meanness on forums.

  13. #13
    Member concernedwnyer's Avatar
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    He looked like a typical geek in tha picture... Glasses, the look, the laptop screen shot below.... and there was an error. You took the rep system down so the stated is not true.

    "Fracasso has banned some incorrigible offenders and he allows people to rate other regular commenters and to see everyone’s reputation score." Was I just like a certain band member now???


    As far as personal information on a message board goes. Keep it off unless the person would like to disclose it himself or herself. Do not be idiotic about this.

  14. #14
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    I thought it was a good article. Res, I don't think we thank you enough for all the hours you put in. Thank you.

  15. #15
    Member HipKat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by winfield31
    Wow , Rez , you good lookin' devil !! Funny how when you write someone you have an idea what they look like , then when you meet them face-to-face , nothing like you imagined ! Thought it was a good News article , well done , your anonymous status "has left the building" , just like ELVIS ........ "Hunka , hunka , burnin' love baby".........LOL !! Good for you Tony !


    No doubt.
    I still think The Rising looks like Mr. Hand.......
    Let me articulate this for you:
    "I'm not locked in here with them. They're locked in here with me!!"
    HipKat's Blog

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