Poverty

[Harlem World]

Very thoughtful post IMO.

The definition of poverty has been perverted in some circles. If you can afford an internet connection and a computer.... face it your not living in poverty. If you are struggling to pay your food bills and your paying for internet and computer your not poor, your foolish.

There is an expectation now that everyone should have 3 tv's, a zillion cable channels, cell phone, two vehicles etc. The old way of thinking " I will raise my kids to live a better life than me" has been twisted into "Gimmie all the goodies I can get my hands on or I must be poor"

I really see that illustrated in housing prices in buffalo. The difference between living in what some would consider the ghetto in rent money (say $250 to $300 a month) and living in a working class neighborhood (say $400 - $500 a month) is so minimal ($100 or $150) it makes one wonder why would anyone choose to live in a slum with 4 tv's and internet vs living in a better neighborhood with less material things.

We have turned into a society that craves material items to the exclusion of all else, and television and the media have taught even those that cant afford things that they must have them or they and there life are in some way wrong or bad.

I've been to apartments where the roaches are so bold, they'll practically flip you off, the mice run rampant throughout the kitchen, in the daytime, without a care in the world, little kids sleep 3 or 4 to a twin mattress laying on the floor, yet the apartment is decked out with leather sofas, big screen TV's, playstation, Wii, & cable. Never made sense to me?

[concernedwnyer]

I've been to apartments where the roaches are so bold, they'll practically flip you off, the mice run rampant throughout the kitchen, in the daytime, without a care in the world, little kids sleep 3 or 4 to a twin mattress laying on the floor, yet the apartment is decked out with leather sofas, big screen TV's, playstation, Wii, & cable. Never made sense to me?

You just described 1/4 of New York City.... If you are nice to the rodents tey will even share some of the food they find with you when they walk by the table. Not nice not nice at all Had a distant cousin who lived in the cit-tay....

[Harlem World]

You just described 1/4 of New York City.... If you are nice to the rodents tey will even share some of the food they find with you when they walk by the table. Not nice not nice at all Had a distant cousin who lived in the cit-tay....

During the Republication National Convention in NYC in 2004, I was assigned to patrol the perimeter outside of Tavern On The Green in Central Park. We passed the time hand feeding the biggest rats I've ever seen, they came right up to us! NYC rats aren't afraid of anything (not even Chuck Norris)

[steven]

But to challenge the first thing you said, if you can aford a TV, would you equate thjat to not living in Poverty??
Because now-a-days, having a computer and TV is about as paramount as having a TV.

I dont no anyone with just 1 TV, and most of the folks I no off that have a pc use it to play games on. niether is really a necassity unless u earn a living by using your pc.

As far as the rent thing, it's easier to get section 8, in the neighborhoods it's offered, which is primarily the lower class neighborhoods.Plus HEAP, and everything.

Section 8 and HEAP go off income not your address. I know of people in a lot nicer nieghborhoods then the one I live in that recieve both.

Im not trying to start the "welfare queen abuses the system" argument here. There are many in need but there are also many that just refuse to live within there means.

There are way to many people living a steak life on a burger king income.

These are essentials as I see it to live in a working class nieghborhood in the city for a couple with one child:

Gas (balanced Billing) $150 (Mine is $200 however I live in a full house not apt)

Electric (balanced Billing) $125

Rent $400 (if u rent you arent paying your water most likely)

Transportation $66 (NFTA All 4 zone Pass Monthly)

Food $400 (100 per week)

Total $1,141

Everything else is a luxury not a necessity IMHO

Minumum wage is $7.25 so assuming both have the worst luck in the world and are working for the barest minumum at 40 hours a week this works out to roughly $290 each per week. Thats $2,320 a month (in a 4 week month), there are 52 weeks in a year so actually we are missing some pay days this fictional couple has.

$2,320
-$1141
---------
$1179

You can add or subtract a couple numbers here or there for chld care or clothing but I didnt since because they are making that figure they are probably getting heap and or Food stamps and thus not paying gas or electric during the winter months.

[MAD BLUE BIRD]

original post by stevenco

Minumum wage is $7.25 so assuming both have the worst luck in the world and are working for the barest minumum at 40 hours a week this works out to roughly $290 each per week. Thats $2,320 a month (in a 4 week month), there are 52 weeks in a year so actually we are missing some pay days this fictional couple has.

You figured wrong. You figured the gross income.

so say net is less 20%

232.oo /person weekly
464 weekly for both
1856 monthly income for both

1856 less 1141...715 left in a month divide by 4=178.78 left weekly

divide that by two and they are both left with 89.37 dollars to spend.

but I think we all know is that it always looks sweeter on paper than what really comes up in real life. Just imagine what the numers would be if it were a single parent.

116 weekly
464 monthly

?????????????????????????????????????????????

[steven]

You figured wrong. You figured the gross income.

so say net is less 20%

A family of three living off minumum wage isnt paying 20% in taxes. They arent paying any income taxes at all and will get a refund due to the EIC despite that. I know when I was a PVT in the army I was in that situation before.

Some actually have taxes taken out of their check so it looks like they are paying taxes and then at the end of the year they get a 2 or 3 k refund. In essence giving the govt a free loan. The smart ones adjust their w2 so they dont pay taxes.

Gross is Net when your making minumum wage.

[Velvet Fog]

A family of three living off minumum wage is paying 20% in taxes. They arent paying any income taxes at all and will get a refund due to the EIC despite that.

Gross is Net when your making minumum wage.

It depends what you claim....Everyone pays taxes.

[MAD BLUE BIRD]

Yes but that refund will come at the end of the year. Their weekly paychecks will still be taxed.

[FisherRd]

It depends what you claim....Everyone pays taxes.

Sales taxes yes. Not everyone pays income taxes.

[Velvet Fog]

Sales taxes yes. Not everyone pays income taxes.

How do they pull that off--I'm totally ignorant when it comes to taxes..And how the hell do I pull it off---Should I claim 8 on my W-4?

[MAD BLUE BIRD]

original post by velvetfog

How do they pull that off--I'm totally ignorant when it comes to taxes..And how the hell do I pull it off---Should I claim 8 on my W-4?

I know humor is being frowned upon lately...but that just cracked me up....

[HipKat]

I dont no anyone with just 1 TV, and most of the folks I no off that have a pc use it to play games on. niether is really a necassity unless u earn a living by using your pc.




Section 8 and HEAP go off income not your address. I know of people in a lot nicer nieghborhoods then the one I live in that recieve both.

Im not trying to start the "welfare queen abuses the system" argument here. There are many in need but there are also many that just refuse to live within there means.

There are way to many people living a steak life on a burger king income.

These are essentials as I see it to live in a working class nieghborhood in the city for a couple with one child:

Gas (balanced Billing) $150 (Mine is $200 however I live in a full house not apt)

Electric (balanced Billing) $125

Rent $400 (if u rent you arent paying your water most likely)

Transportation $66 (NFTA All 4 zone Pass Monthly)

Food $400 (100 per week)

Total $1,141

Everything else is a luxury not a necessity IMHO

Minumum wage is $7.25 so assuming both have the worst luck in the world and are working for the barest minumum at 40 hours a week this works out to roughly $290 each per week. Thats $2,320 a month (in a 4 week month), there are 52 weeks in a year so actually we are missing some pay days this fictional couple has.

$2,320
-$1141
---------
$1179

You can add or subtract a couple numbers here or there for chld care or clothing but I didnt since because they are making that figure they are probably getting heap and or Food stamps and thus not paying gas or electric during the winter months.

I hear where you're coming from, but some of your costs are a little off.
A household of 4 is not gonna live on 100 a week for food, #1.
I rent a house, so I'm paying water and sewage/trash, which equates to about 60 bucks a month.

And there may be a few secdtion 8 properties in nicer neighborhoods, but the bulk are in the poorer neighborhoods.
It's economics; You can buy a rental property cheap, and your rent is guarrenteed every month.
But you have to deal with alot of lousy tenants. But that's a different thread.
I agree.
I live a little above my means, no doubt.
Specifically, I pay WAY too much for cable and my cell could come down a little too.
But I don't drive, so there's a trade-off.

Still, we're talking American econimics, and the bulk of the impoverished aren't in the US.
And that was where this thread was supposed to go, when I started it.

[MAD BLUE BIRD]

Still, we're talking American econimics, and the bulk of the impoverished aren't in the US.
And that was where this thread was supposed to go, when I started it.

oh don't go there...and what if something happened that you or your wife couldn't work and sought aid from the country you lived in and paid taxes in only to hear."sorry, we can't help you because we have to help the poor starving people in such n such country"

[FisherRd]

How do they pull that off--I'm totally ignorant when it comes to taxes..And how the hell do I pull it off---Should I claim 8 on my W-4?

I take my taxes to a "guy" (he's actually really good, but I don't want you guys taking your stuff there and making my wait even longer)!!! So to answer your question and being naive on taxes, I believe as though you simply check the $0 (or fill it in).
You can direct them to not take any money out for income tax regardless of how much you make. If you make very little you don't have to pay come April 15th. If you make more than a little you owe money come 4/15.

[steven]

I hear where you're coming from, but some of your costs are a little off.
A household of 4 is not gonna live on 100 a week for food, #1.

The scenerio I used was a household of 3 not 4 since I am a single parent with a household of three (including two teenage football players that I am very sure eat a lot more than a houshold of four that includes preteen kids or little girls) I think my numbers are fairly accurate. That is what I allow in my budget for Food weekly. I look for sales, I clip coupons. I can feed both these boys and myself very well on 100 a week.

Our fictional couple is actually in the 15% income tax bracket.
http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

Throw in the deduction for the child and the EIC and they are probably making money off taxes not paying it. When I was a PVT in the army and my then wife worked retail we got a refund every year that was more than anything we paid.

And velvet yes u can keep from paying income taxes if you are in that income bracket. When u do your taxes at the end of the year you just have to request the IRS apply your EIC benifit to you over the year instead of waiting until the end of the year and make sure your w4 reflects the correct amount of dependents. Its just a box you have to check on your tax form.

Edited to add, I looked it up.....

Using our fictional couple they would owe $3,210 in taxes however the child gives them a $3,300 deduction ( http://www.wwwebtax.com/miscellaneous/exemptions.htm ) and the eic pushes them further into the making money off taxes catagory