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Thread: Past experience

  1. #1
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Past experience

    Does anyone know of other cities where we know a casino hurt or helped business? Would be nice to get thier opinion before we go blasting or welcoming this.

    I'm very wary though how they just ok'd what ever without our input. But hey a lot of the politicians don't seem to care about the residents as it is.

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  2. #2
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    Detroit built casinos to compete with Windsor, Ontario.....right across the river. Recreational income moved away from restaurants, theater, stores and the like in Detroit. Businesses took some shots as people spent their money at a casino.

    IMO, it is a lose-lose situation. On the one hand you're taking land off the tax rolls, you're giving away land to a sovereign nation and what's the probability of regaining that land?

    On the other hand this is a cop out in attempting to stimulate the economy here. It's obvious the leaders here don't have the where-with-all to bring solid businesses into this area, so they are kow-towing and relegating to the Seneca Nation to create a casino here.

    I am not against casinos, just don't want to see their presence in Buffalo. Why in the hell are they not building more casinos in Niagara Falls, NY? Let them compete directly against their sister city in Ontario. They wanted casinos in their area, give em all they want. Go beyond the Iroquois confederation.....get on the horn with Native groups from the midwest and New England that have built casinos in those areas.

    Buffalo can do better than this.

  3. #3
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    Casinos won't bring in clientele from outside the area. The majority of patrons will be locals, many of whom have gambling problems, and they will not be visiting any restaurants or shops in the vicinity of the casino. It will be park, go inside the casino, blow the wad and head home. No one stands to gain from this. Not the city, not the business people, least of all the gamblers.

    Not to mention, if the Senecas open smoke shops or put a gas station in the city, lots of small business people will go belly-up in a hurry.

  4. #4
    sbGUY27
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    Originally posted by Unregistered
    Not to mention, if the Senecas open smoke shops or put a gas station in the city, lots of small business people will go belly-up in a hurry.
    This is something that I would not like to see. Those of you who actually read the message board before responding know that I would like to see a casino. At least a trial run to find an answer to the social ills it could bring. Lease a site to the Senecas.
    I'm sure they'll go for it because it willl be take it or leave it type scenario.

    No tax free zones in the city. That is the cost of doing business at every other location downtown. We need to keep downtown business competive. We also need to put more business down town to compete against each other.

  5. #5
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Just get it in writing with some hooks. The moment you start selling tax free cigs in the casino we block your entry doors until it stops. Easy as that .

    Oh do now take anyone's word ever, just get it in writing.

  6. #6
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    Did you read in the paper today about the Senecas casting blame on the internet cigarette sale dealy onto non-native purchasers?

    I'm done doing business with them. If Rickey Armstrong equates me with a criminal, then he can go **** himself and the horse he rode in on. I helped to put food on his table and he has the nerve to say that? **** him. I am doing a 180 and hope the state deals with them any fashion they want to.

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    I don't know why we even bother dealing with the indians. You are either an american citizen or you're not. If you want to be a sovereign nation, fine. We'll put up border crossing points into and out of all reservation property. Any goods coming into or out of the reservation is taxed and tariffed accordingly. Lets see how long they last. Or they can be american citizens like the rest of us with the same rights as the rest of us. They shouldn't be allowed to have it both ways.

  8. #8
    Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    I've got a better idea - how about reducing the obscene taxes on gas and cigarettes to a level that corresponds with the neighboring states? I don't hear anyone wanting to declare war or install customs gates on New Jersey... If there wasn't such a high rate of taxation, there wouldn't be such a desire of the citizens of New York to evade taxation. Why, some of these people actually have to nerve to move out of the state and stop paying New York taxes at all!
    Leave the damned indians alone. They've been hosed for so long it's about time they get a little.... They are just taking advantage of the stupidity of the leadership of New York.
    Data is not the plural of Anecdote.

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    Actually, I won't leave the indians alone. Generally, when you win a war and keep the territory you can do one of two things. You can kill every last man, woman and child of the people you just conquered, or you can assimilate them into your own population and make them citizens. Since the US gov't decided on the latter, then they should just be ordinary citizens like everyone else. They got hosed because they were a primitive civilization when they lost their war.

    Assuming they should deserve some kind of sovereignty and special treatment, then that applies to the people of their nation, period. I think NYS should shut it down at the source. I don't care how high the taxes are, you pay it like everyone else or you leave the state. For laws to work, they have to apply to everyone equally.

    If the state doesn't want to shut down the illegal sales at the source, then they should set up inspection stations at every entrance onto the reservation and search cars just like a border crossing. If you're caught with untaxed cigarettes, you face fines or jail time.

  10. #10
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    >>Actually, I won't leave the indians alone. Generally, when you win a war and keep the territory you can do one of two things. You can kill every last man, woman and child of the people you just conquered, or you can assimilate them into your own population and make them citizens<<

    A little polarized? Testosterone poisoning maybe, I don't know.

    What's your solution for getting the troops out of Iraq? If it goes the way of your 'one of two things' either they never come back, or this government will be guilty of the same atrocities perpetrated on the 'uncivilized' people on this continent. And the rest of the world is already convinced this government is guilty of that. Or can they just all blow it out their butts too?

    Save the chest thumping for somewhere else, it's old. And sick.

    Oh and I'm sure that NYS will spring from it's sin-tax coffer to set up inspection sites at the border of every reservation.

  11. #11
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    Actually, this isn't chest thumping and its not "old and sick". It's called history, try reading a book sometime. The comment I made has nothing to do with modern day Iraq, we're talking about colonialism, which except for modern-day Israel doesn't exist.

    Historically speaking, when one nation invaded another with the sole idea of conquering territory and expanding their own borders, they either killed everyone, assimilated them, or enslaved them (I forgot to mention that earlier, so you got me there).

    So like it or not, when we expanded westward and claimed that territory for our own, and the indians couldn't defend it, the war was effectively over. The indians got a pretty good deal, they weren't enslaved or killed, they were assimilated. They obtained all the same rights and priveleges of every other US citizen.

    Current wars aren't fought that way anymore, as in Iraq, we did not conquer that nation and make it part of the US. Even if that was a US goal, the rest of the world wouldn't stand for it.

    Maybe you should spend more time at an institution of higher learning, or at the very least, one of the great libraries so many people here keep chest thumping about.

  12. #12
    sbGUY27
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    Nice Grumpy, I like it. Too many people don't like to see what the reality of it all. You spoke the truth and that is all you can do.

  13. #13
    Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Grump,
    I can't seem to get over the comparsion between taxation rates of neighboring states and the rez. when we say "seneca nation" it really is a bunch of BS and everyone knows it. We have granted limited autonomy to these regions for the indians and they are as free to set taxation policy as pennsylvania or ohio is. The founding fathers gave the states rights for many reasons, and competition among them was one of those reasons. I think it is a good thing that new york has 6 other states and canada on it's borders, and the rez should be considered another entity to compete with, in terms of taxation competition.
    You didn't suggest building customs houses on the 90 to pennsylvaina, because you know that is prohibited by the U.S. constitution. I think the 6th amendment should apply to the rez as well. If new york wasn't pricing itself out of the "state residence provider" market, we wouldn't have these problems.
    Data is not the plural of Anecdote.

  14. #14
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    >they weren't enslaved or killed<

    OK sure. I've spent more time at institutions of higher learning than I care to think of, and I will never embrace your version of history any more than I'll condone what is happening in the Middle East now. If you don't think Iraq is an occupation, maybe you need to learn more about it.

  15. #15
    sbGUY27
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    Of course I raq is an occupation , for now. Hell we should be pumping more oil out in a week that OPEC can do in a year to pay for this occupation. One day we will leave Iraq and another dictator will take power. I'm sure we'll be trying to kill him 20 years after he takes power.

    Indians were treated like crap but like grumpy said we were basically at war with them. We tried to wipe tham off the face of the earth but when the government saw that it was not going to be that easy they gave tham a sweet deal for what enemies got at that time. Land (though the crapiest), sovereignty,tax exemption.

    Just like the japs in WWII. We occupied that country for how long and now look at them. They own more land and banks than americans do.

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