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Thread: Past experience

  1. #31
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Think about it, a tax free mall. Boy would that put a damper on the malls in the area here.

  2. #32
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    HipKat - you said "OH, and BTW, don't EVEN get me started on Iraq. The 51% that put THAT bozo back in office can take the blame for what's going on there. I didn't vote for it, I know that."

    What does that have to do with the thread? You are just another anti-GWB left winger apparently. Can't resist throwing in a stupid comment. Well I'm one of the MAJORITY OF AMERICANS that voted for Bush, and I did so twice! And I support what our AMERICAN ARMED SERVICES are doing in Iraq. And what's going on there is actually GOOD, as they bring democracy to that part of the world. Is it painful, Yes. But necessary.

    Of course, I'm sure you only get your news from CBS, CNN, Buffalo Snooze, and the rest of the lying mainstream media so you have no clue as to what is really going on.

    Too bad for you.

  3. #33
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    how can the little guy compete

    HOW CAN THE RESTAURANTS AND BARS COMPETE WITH THE CASINO. DRINKS ARE FREE. THE BUFFETS ARE EXCELLENT AND THE PRICE MY BE ABSORBED BY WHAT YOU GAMBLE. CONCERTS AND SHOWS ARE TOP OF THE LINE. TICKETS PRICES ARE AFFORDABLE OR FREE.

    ITS GOING TO BE VERY HARD TO COMPETE. THIS HAPPENED IN VEGAS SO THAT IS WHY THEY PUT VLT MACHINES IN BARS AND RESTAURANTS.

    PEOPLE DON'T REALISE THE INDIAN CASINO IS ANOTHER COUNTRY. WE AS RESIDENTS HAVE NO RIGHTS THERE. THEY WILL GROW AND BUY UP ALL THE PRIME REAL ESTATE IN THE AREA.
    THEY WILL KEEP SPENDING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS BUYING POLITICANS TO INSURE THERE INTRESTS ARE PROTECTED.

    THE RICH WILL BECOME POOR AND THE POOR WILL BECOME POORER. THEY BOTH WILL BECOME DESPERATE AND TURN TO CRIME.

    WE WILL SEE MORE JOB LOSS. THEN WE WILL SEE OUR POLITICIANS IN SPECIFY ALBANY WANT TO DO SOMETHING. SORRY TO LATE .AGAIN!

    PERSONALLY, I LOVE TO GAMBLE. BUT GROWING UP AT CONNECTICUT LANES ON BUFFALO'S WEST-SIDE. IVE SEEN MY SHARE OF WHAT IT DOES TO FAMILIES AND FRIENDSHIPS

    BUT SINCE IT IS HERE THEY SHOULD JUST LEGALISE IT. WITH ALL THE INCOME TO BE USED WITHIN THE COUNTIES THEY ARE IN.

  4. #34
    Member 300miles's Avatar
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    Thumbs down What smells?

    The Senecas are artificially extending their $30 million allocated by congress for land purchases by creating a "two-step" process where the gambling corporation re-sells the property to the tribe (itself) for a couple dollars. So even though they've probably spent almost half the allotted $30 million, they're claiming they've only spent exactly $18.00 on land so far. (yes 18... as in the price of a good meal). With this scheme they will be able to continue purchasing land without actually adhering to the $30 million limit set by congress.

    The Senecas, as usual, won't even respond to questions. Why should they? They're a sovereign nation and can do whatever they want.

    Article:
    http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial...12/1068035.asp

  5. #35
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    Indian Policy

    Short Essays on Indian Policy & Human Rights Needs

    Needs - No. 1

    Reservations and Human Rights

    Native Americans maintain a special position in our country. In order to sustain that position we have never allowed them to achieve their human rights. For lack of equal rights Native Americans have to deal with poverty and abuse of all kinds. Such suffering has led them down a path of unhappiness and a shortened life expectancy. Currently we are allowing the establishment of casinos on reservations as a social benefit or as it would appear an appeasement. That benefit may soon be broadened to allow Indian casinos to be established anywhere. This is a highly unethical way to solve a human rights issue. Simply put, gambling concessions as an appeasement are an attempt to solve a social problem with another social problem.

    Equal rights are not about gambling concessions nor are they about maintaining a separate welfare system for Indians. Equal Rights are about a fair and equal birthright for every citizen. By protecting and preserving Indians we are denying them their rights to full citizenship.

    The problem can be defined as follows: Reservations are the evolution of suppressive institutions enhanced by divisive and sympathetic legislation and court rulings in defiance of human rights. Simply put, we created a bad social situation and now we are enhancing it (again) with bad policies like gambling concessions.

    Our founding principles should rise above current policies. To attain equal rights Native Americans should be provided with temporary development programs, industry incentives, job training, and educational opportunities in order to help them become equal partners in our society. Instead we continue with a terribly deficient and backward approach. We provide gambling concessions along with birthright stipends and a separate welfare system. The result is that we are encouraging separation and sovereignty.

    Our goal should be for all people to live within the guidelines of our national welfare system as equal citizens. You often hear the phrase, “Recognize diversity”.

    In order to recognize diversity you have to establish equal rights.

    Those who insist upon dependency for Native Americans, as we are now doing, have guilt feelings brought upon us by two centuries of invalid solutions to this problem. If sympathetic treatment were the solution then why are we in the dilemma that we are in today? The answer is simply that sympathetic treatment is unethical as it forms a dysfunctional abusive relationship. Our Founding Fathers had more in mind than sympathetic treatment.

    In recent times we have added heaps of legislation and court rulings onto the problem as we continue to cover up human rights principles and progress toward separation and sovereignty. Most of these rulings are shallow unprincipled appeasements and there seems to be no end in sight, but no matter how much policy you put on the books it must stand the test of human rights. (We need only be reminded of the Emancipation Proclamation to understand how bad policies can be used to deprive people of their equal citizenship.)

    It’s time that we reform our policies not only for ethical reasons of the relationship itself but also because of the expansion of our diversity. In the past ten years alone many more Latinos have crossed legally and illegally into this country than all the resident Indians combined. Those who are able to get jobs and stay here become equal members of our society. If immigrants, many of Indian heritage, are privileged

    to become equal members of our society then it is a given right that all people in this country become equal members of society.

    Another reason that we must reform ourselves is the scope of our world influence. In not being able to establish equal rights in our own country then it becomes a mockery of our democratic values that we would try to establish democracies in the Middle East.

    The answer is not in establishing the principles. Our country was founded on equal rights principles and then reaffirmed by Lincoln 150 years ago and once more confirmed by Eleanor Roosevelt with The Declaration of Human Rights. We need to find the integrity to shed our sympathetic mindset. Principle over policy is the solution. Not allowing casinos off reservation is only the beginning of the solution. It can be a beginning for getting started in the right direction. Instead of moving more and more toward separation and sovereignty we can start to move our country toward equal rights and unity.

    NEEDS - No. 2

    The Case for Reform; Native American Issues

    Government policy will never be perfect because decisions on some issues are never without an opposing opinion. For example: You can argue a position for or against gay marriage just as you can argue a position for or against the occupation of Iraq.

    That being said we should consider that human rights principles vs. current policies toward Indians are definitely a debatable issue. On one side of the issue you have the principles that define our country, while in opposition you have the sanctity of the reservations and long established treaties.

    If we are to ere in the direction of sympathetic treatment (extra rights or special rights) it is just as harmful to do so as to deny rights to an ethnic group. Whenever we mess with equal rights we create injustice and disharmony. That being said, we need to recognize that we have done just that. We have created separation in our society through a pattern of disruptive policies.

    Can you honestly say that gambling concessions granted to an ethnic group are a solution to a social problem? It would appear that this is an attempt to solve a social problem with another social problem. In so doing we ignore the underlying issue. That issue is human rights. There is no social justice in granting special privileges. In order to question special privileges you would need to question the sanctity of the reservation itself as a sovereign nation. We should be doing just that. It is our prerogative to establish or not establish sovereign nations within our boundaries. Therefore the truly responsible choice is to take the ethical path of equal rights and social justice. Instead we have chosen a path that goes against the principles, which define our country.

    If you analyze the situation you come to realize that the Bureau of Indian Affairs works very hard toward separation and sovereignty. Meanwhile our legislators and judges continue to widen the social gap with their impunity and lack of insight. We need to look at the scope of the consequences that we create. Thus how we choose to resolve the issue should come from an analysis of the results of our choice. (We should not be trying to resolve the issue on the basis of guilt rather than principle). Our current choice is to enhance separation and sovereignty and to widen the gap toward special rights. A much better choice would be to defend our principles and work toward unity and equal rights. So I ask you in all sincerity-Do you wish to defend sovereignty and special rights or do you want to work toward social justice and equal rights?

    We CAN affect change. We can do this by insisting that no public money or concessions go to Indians without having an ethical purpose. That purpose should be the inclusion of Native Americans. The end result would be to reaffirm once again our nation as “One nation indivisible.”

    How do you sell such monumental change to the American people? It’s a tough sell. We would rather defend Indians as the “Underdogs.” It has always seemed the right thing to do in our country to protect and defend the “underdog”. In this case our position as defenders is wrong. Such action turns us away from the necessary reality that we should be defending ethics and morality.

    Defenders of the so-called victims influence us more than the victims themselves. In other words, it is not the sympathy demanded by the native people; it is more the sympathy of the American public that defines our choice in this matter. From childhood we are indoctrinated toward sympathy. We have been indoctrinated for example through movies, books, pageants and the actions of government. We have been trained to own this social problem rather than to challenge it. Sympathy is so deeply rooted in the psyche of Americans that we may never affect change. The sad thing is that sympathy is a form of discrimination. Preservation of culture should be a matter of choice and not come from an attempt to preserve our native people.

    There are those who tend to agree with a need for reform. Many would say we need reform but not at this time. Now IS the time. The more we prolong resolving the issue the more we become steeped in adverse policies. The gap only widens. The country then continues to suffer under the burden of injustice. Why do we insist on owning this problem? We need to promote social justice through reform. Once again, sympathy is a form of discrimination. Current policies do not define our country according to the lofty ideals we have pledged to uphold.

    NEEDS - No. 3
    Reservations and Human Rights

    By patronizing Indians with gambling concessions and ethnically generated benefits we have created the serious problem of compromising our democratic ideals. We have gone from deprivation of Indian rights in the past to escalation of Indian rights in the present. Charity as a solution to our social dilemma is admirable but condescending and discriminatory. Charity can never replace justice expressed as equal rights. Compassion in the form of social justice is the only ethical solution.

    There are no instances where it has ever been beneficial for a country to escalate the rights of one ethnic group.

    Albeit reservations should be recognized, however, we have gone too far. We have compromised our ideals. The reason we have lost sight of our ideals is supposedly to atone for transgressions of the past. Escalating discriminatory practices, however, is ethically unacceptable. Our treatment of Native Americans today is nothing more than the shadow of bigotry.

    We should all be concerned about the loss of our social justice.

    There is no need to be compensating Native Americans with gambling concessions and ethnically generated benefits. Our founding principles protect the equal rights of all citizens and ethnic groups. We need to adhere to those principles. Patronizing Native Americans and encouraging them to develop nations within our nation is devastating. It devastates our patriotic allegiance and our democratic ideals. We don’t need separate levels of citizenship within our nation. It is urgent that we demand social justice and end discriminatory practices defined by gambling concessions and other patronizing programs. It is everyone’s patriotic duty to defend the values that established our country, and to insist on being inclusive toward Native Americans. Equal rights principles determine that the same laws serve and protect all of us, and that we share in the same government services. It is only ethical that all benefits to Indians should be to that end.


    INDIAN HUMAN RIGHTS ADVOCACY TEST

    1. The best way to solve the Indian social problem is:
    (a) To allocate more funding and escalate special treatment.
    (b) Resolve the ethical and moral issues through reform.

    2. For a child's psyche, the best way to grow up is:
    (a) To realize that you were born different from most citizens.
    (b) To realize that you were born the same as other citizens.

    3. The best way to recognize diversity is:
    (a) To separate ethnic groups and pay them to remain separate
    (b) Integrate people and allow them to express their differences as
    they wish.

    4. When confronted with a social problem the best thing to do is:
    (a) To defend your right to own the problem.
    (b) Seek resolution because it's your moral obligation to do so.

    5. The final solution to social inequity is to
    (a) Divide the country.
    (b) Resolve the social inequity.

    6. We need to deal with sympathetic treatment carefully because
    (a) Kindness is a virtue.=20
    (b) Sympathy forms a dysfunctional relationship.

    EVALUATION

    One (a) answer means there is hope in converting you to a humanitarian.
    Two (a) answers mean that you are resigned to avoid equal rights and would rather promote
    sovereignty.
    Three or more (a) answers means your are not only hopelessly sympathetic you probably believe that everyone would get along better if we just divided the country.

    All (b) answers means that you are a patriot for uniting the country and a humanitarian for defending the Declaration of Human Rights, the first article of which states, "All citizens are born free and equal."

  6. #36
    Member justaxme's Avatar
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    Spitzer taking indian payoffs!!!

    Looks like Elliot is bought and paid for with indian lobbyist money too!!! It's dirty politics as usual!!!

    http://www.nysun.com/article/38777

    Reversing Thrust, Spitzer Will Pay For Private Jets

    By JACOB GERSHMAN - Staff Reporter of the Sun
    August 30, 2006

    As the state lobbying commission investigates whether a prominent casino developer violated lobbying laws by providing gubernatorial candidate Eliot Spitzer discounted rides on a private jet, a campaign official for Mr. Spitzer said that going forward the candidate would pay the full cost of charter flights.
    I thought gambling was illegal in NY

  7. #37
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    A casino in your city will recycle money. A casino in a bordering town will draw money from your city. The former is the lesser of two evils.
    The evil hide even when no one is chasing them.- Proverbs

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by azsumme2003
    I'm from Scottdale, Arizona. I'm sure you have heard of it. Upscale, beautiful, resort area, etc. We have casino gambling and it has been a wonderful addition to the area. We have very little crime and the casino provides jobs and entertainment. I'd highly recommend it! (By the way, I'm originally fom the WNY area)

    WHOOP DEE FRIGGIN DO GOOD FOR YOU!!!!! Perhaps your economy in scotsdale is a hell of a lot better then the economy of WNY....... I would say that tends to put a different perspective on things wouldn't you????.... Perhaps the Indian tribe that operates the casino over near where you reside is not a a bunch of sleeze bags like the Seneca Nartion tribe is. Look at the crap the Senecas have tried to pull and how they tried to pull it and what you see might surprise you.

    I say enough of that. Take them all out to a desert and NUKE EM that way there will not be anymore conflict between the REAL people who made this country what is today and the poor Indians who cry poor mouth even though they live for free and benefit from many gov programs that are given to them that none native americans pay for.


    Perhaps we could get downstate buffalonian and nuclear Lou to do the job since they both seem to like toxic waste and radioactive land fills so much…

    Enough I am glad Spitzer is putting the balls on the table. What is wrong with the state collecting tax from none native Americans……..????? No agreement said that all people who live in this country are entitled to tax free purchases……… Come on……

    Oh, and um welcome again to SpeakupWNY of Western New York located in the East coast not West coast. I am concernedwnyer!!



  9. #39
    Member concernedwnyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevenco
    A casino in your city will recycle money. A casino in a bordering town will draw money from your city. The former is the lesser of two evils.
    Where is this money recylcled if the casino is ran by Native Americans on their land claim????? Everything they buy is tax free.... They do not pay tax on anything........ Once the building is up and running and the slot machines are plugged in that is it.

    Oh, I know they buy paper supplies, food and garbage trash bags tax free of course....

    At least in Las Vegas there is new construction going on, new developements all the time what do these Indian sites have to offer????????

    Again, where is the moeny being recycled in this case????

  10. #40
    Member justaxme's Avatar
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    Correct me if I am wrong....

    Quote Originally Posted by concernedwnyer
    Where is this money recylcled if the casino is ran by Native Americans on their land claim????? Everything they buy is tax free.... They do not pay tax on anything........ Once the building is up and running and the slot machines are plugged in that is it.

    Oh, I know they buy paper supplies, food and garbage trash bags tax free of course....

    At least in Las Vegas there is new construction going on, new developements all the time what do these Indian sites have to offer????????

    Again, where is the moeny being recycled in this case????
    but Niagara Falls, NY (Seneca Niagara Casino) is a wasteland. I have been driving through there, on my way to the Canadian Casinos, and there has been NO improvement. There is no development. People are leaving in record numbers and the city and county are broke. The WNY economy does suck and the casinos are sucking out what little life is left. We can now expect Buffalo and Niagara Falls, NY to turn into the dump that Atlantic City has become.

    When Cleveland turned their city around, did they bring in casino gambling? These people that think casinos are the answers to their economic problems must be the same losers I see at a blackjack table thinking they have a shot at winning when they don't know the first thing about gambling.
    I thought gambling was illegal in NY

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by justaxme
    but Niagara Falls, NY (Seneca Niagara Casino) is a wasteland. I have been driving through there, on my way to the Canadian Casinos, and there has been NO improvement. There is no development. People are leaving in record numbers and the city and county are broke. The WNY economy does suck and the casinos are sucking out what little life is left. We can now expect Buffalo and Niagara Falls, NY to turn into the dump that Atlantic City has become.

    When Cleveland turned their city around, did they bring in casino gambling? These people that think casinos are the answers to their economic problems must be the same losers I see at a blackjack table thinking they have a shot at winning when they don't know the first thing about gambling.
    Well that is good enough for me. It sounds like the thorough investigative work you base your opinion on is a 45 mile an hour peek entering the Rainbow Bridge. And I tip my hat to your grudge against the Indian owned casinos since they will only give back small percentages...what percentage are we receiving from the canadian casinos you support?

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    mirror, mirror

    Quote Originally Posted by justaxme
    These people that think casinos are the answers to their economic problems must be the same losers I see at a blackjack table thinking they have a shot at winning when they don't know the first thing about gambling.
    Next time you are at the blackjack table, do me a favor and poll their opinion of you. Your comment reminds me of a moron I went to college with who refered to another as having a drinking problem. He justified the accusation because of the 5-6 nights he sat at the bar the other individual was there ALMOST everytime.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by averagejoe
    Next time you are at the blackjack table, do me a favor and poll their opinion of you. Your comment reminds me of a moron I went to college with who refered to another as having a drinking problem. He justified the accusation because of the 5-6 nights he sat at the bar the other individual was there ALMOST everytime.
    Man you sound angry and bitter. We are talking about gambling so you decide to attack me. Doesn't sound like you're very rational, so I won't bother discussing it with you. Have a nice day.
    I thought gambling was illegal in NY

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by justaxme
    but Niagara Falls, NY (Seneca Niagara Casino) is a wasteland. I have been driving through there, on my way to the Canadian Casinos, and there has been NO improvement. There is no development. People are leaving in record numbers and the city and county are broke. The WNY economy does suck and the casinos are sucking out what little life is left. We can now expect Buffalo and Niagara Falls, NY to turn into the dump that Atlantic City has become.
    Then you have been drioving through the wrong parts.

    Where is your proof that people are leaving ion record #'s???

    Actually the Casino in NF has put life back into the city, with jobs and buying saupplies from other businesses. The mayor and the police chief have had high regards for the casino.


    When Cleveland turned their city around, did they bring in casino gambling? These people that think casinos are the answers to their economic problems must be the same losers I see at a blackjack table thinking they have a shot at winning when they don't know the first thing about gambling.
    Casinos are not the answer, but a piece of the solution.

    No one industry is the complete solution, even you should know that.

    Micheal

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by averagejoe
    Well that is good enough for me. It sounds like the thorough investigative work you base your opinion on is a 45 mile an hour peek entering the Rainbow Bridge. And I tip my hat to your grudge against the Indian owned casinos since they will only give back small percentages...what percentage are we receiving from the canadian casinos you support?
    Thanks for not attacking me personally this time. If you don't like my investigating why don't you supply proof that casinos are such a positive factor in a community. And please don't use the Indian sponsored studies. On MSNBC last week, they listed the 10 areas in the country that are losing population. Buffalo area was # 3. These casino certainly doesn't seem to be stopping the brain drain from western NY. Have you been to Atlantic City lately to see what a dump that city has become? I don't think many of the talented graduates of our top notch WNY colleges are going to stick around to deal blackjack or clean rooms.
    I thought gambling was illegal in NY

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