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Thread: Past experience

  1. #16
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    Curmudgeon,

    I just don't see this issue the same as you do. For whatever reason, the federal gov't felt guilty and gave the reservations some perks. Like tax free cigarettes and gas. Fine, any american indian is entitled to those perks, everyone else isn't To me it is no different than the other thread somewhere on this board about a contractor undercutting everyone else because he got materials from the gov't for a gov't contract, and then sold the unused material to the public. It is outright theft. Same for the indians, what they don't use, they shouldn't be allowed to sell at a profit.

  2. #17
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    Back to the topic at hand. If the Niagara Falls casino is established and draws people locally and from southern Ontario. And the Senecas build a casino in Salamanca, I would imagine it would draw people from PA and OH, as well as the southern tier. So where does a Buffalo casino fit in? Where will we be drawing people from?

    It seems odd to have three casinos within 50 or 60 miles of each other in separate metropolitan areas competing for a fixed amount of dollars. Niagara Falls loves their casino, but what will the city think when another casino or two start competing for local gamblers? I would imagine that revenues in NF would have to go down. If a similar casino is located in Buffalo or a nearby southern location, why would anyone from Erie County or the southern tier go to NF?

  3. #18
    Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    grump,
    ". Like tax free cigarettes and gas. "
    Indians don't get free cigarettes and gas. They buy them from the same wholsalers as everyone else and pay the same prices! They just choose to not tax them, as is their right. They still have to pay federal taxes, like the rest of us. It's the state tax they don't have to pay, because they are a "peer" of a state, in the eyes of the fed.
    Pennsylvania could choose to not tax cigs and gas tomorrow and be flooded with new yorkers filling up. What they lost in gas tax they might make up for in increased business tax. It happened in New Hampshire in a tax battle vs. Massachusetts a few years ago. The gov. of NH had a "tax free summer" and got a lot of mass business.....
    They pursue a different taxation model than us to serve the needs of their community. If we didn't have adsurd tax rates, there wouldn't be a problem.
    Data is not the plural of Anecdote.

  4. #19
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    We need to come up with a plan to beat the surrounding states. If we need to cut State payrolls, thier pensions and stuff, so be it. Nothing is guaranteed in life, how do they expect to guarantee thier lively hood while hurting ours.

    We could all sit here while thier guaranteed salaries and benis stay the same or increase while our private sector cash flow slowly grinds to a halt. Thier actions are ruining our chance of making really decent livings.

    We all know we need jobs in the area that are at least decent. We don't need $100,000 a year jobs, we need a WHOLE bunch of $30,000 jobs. Manufacturing jobs not retail. You need people that make a product to produce a real income before they have something to spend at retail stores. There are a load of people that would be happy and content with $30,000.

    Now if over all taxes were lower, everything as a whole would be cheaper. $30,000 would go a longer way with less of a burden of tax on everything that happens in NYS.

    Do we wait until we are as bad as the state of California? OR, just push a control board all the way through state goverment?

  5. #20
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    a federal control board would have been better than a state control board. the fed did wonders in cleveland.

    the only way to start getting manufacturing jobs back into the US is to either enact recipricol trade laws, where we tax their goods at the same rate they tax ours, or something even more drastic. possibly designating a product as "non-domestic" for tariff purposes if 51% of the parts/product are not produced inside the US. but the thought of new laws terrifies me, as most elected officials are barely qualified to work at a supermarket, let alone draft legislation.

  6. #21
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    Talking Casino Go !!!!

    Jeez, I'm really just flaberghasted at the anger and hatred that comes through with the preceding posts. If this is the mentality of the majority, I have empathy for those who have some humanity.

    No wonder that Buffalo is in such a horrible financial state !!!!!!!

    Furthermore, reservations many times sign over their "Soverign Rights" in trade for having a Casino on their land. People think that Native Americans own the casinos, they don't, they lease their land. Land that nobody, NOBODY, wanted. That's why the Government gave it to them, because they thought it was useless. (REALLY?)
    But the Native Americans ( yes, I said Americans) being resourceful, found a use for something " useless" but as usual there are those who want them to remain useless. Afterall, who would we use as a scapegoat if the " Indians" were successful ? If you think that the politicians are giving you a raw-deal , BLAH ,BLAH, BLAH. Not so funny when the moccasin is on the other foot!!!!! HUH ! Indians have been getting raw-deals for hundreds of years. What history books have you been reading in Buffalo?
    I hope & pray the the casino goes forward. A big golf couse, restaurant, hotel, top entertainers will want to be a part of the "American Dream"


    FREE ENTERPRISE!!!!!!

    And I hope the Indians make LOTS, and LOTS of money. And If they're smart............they will purchase as much land as possible .
    Wouldn't that be wonderful if the Senecas owned, yes owned, Buffalo. That is the REAL history !

    Maybe it's time for the table to be turned. God-willing !!!

    "And the meek shall ......."


    Have a Nice Day !!!!

  7. #22
    sbGUY27
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    Dear memare,

    Enterprise is not free. Who ever told you that lied. There is always a price for doing business and making a buck and that is called tax. Seneca land is a tax free oasis. They will not pay tax on property, we will not have to pay sales tax on this land and will have another price, the loss of all taxed businesses in the area. You will no longer have to take that 45 min ride to the res to buy smokes or gas. You can eat at the casino buffet , so long Pondarosa. I don't care about the shaft the Indians got in the past. If they weren't hugging trees and exploring the world with gun powder they would not have been in that position. But what the spirit of the turtle was telling them was the slow to advance usually gets passed and or trampled.

  8. #23
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    I'm from Scottdale, Arizona. I'm sure you have heard of it. Upscale, beautiful, resort area, etc. We have casino gambling and it has been a wonderful addition to the area. We have very little crime and the casino provides jobs and entertainment. I'd highly recommend it! (By the way, I'm originally fom the WNY area)

  9. #24
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    Pure idiocy.

    The government did not grant perks. The government gave them sovereign territory, which--YES, they do deserve. I don't care how much you justify it, they deserve it. It's law, that's the way it is.

    They deserve to sell their wares at any price they desire. Stop blaming the native people for the problems in this state. It sickens me.

    The only people to blame for the problems in new york state, are the citizens in new york state for allowing these idiots in albany to reign over us for so long.

    Okay, wake up and see reality, people. New York State Politicians have shoved us into this toilet of economic despairity, and they are doing what they always do, pointing the finger. So now it's the native american's fault.
    Well, sorry, I'm not buying it. This state ran quite well for quite a few years with the native's doing just as their doing now. How dare you and the state blame them for the problems. They're just trying to survive.

    Check yourself, because if you sense stupidity, it is probably you. Time to wake up and realize the reality of things-- Natives are not the problem, YOU are the problem. I am the problem. WE ARE THE PROBLEM.

    If you want the problem solved, stop acting like a 2 year old child---point the finger where it belongs, pull that lever, and damn those that deserve to be damned--- mainly:

    wacky pataki
    demeaning silver
    halting hoyt
    "nice guy" masiello


    These are the people to blame, not the native people. Get over yourself. Next we'll be hearing how the african americans should be cleaning your house and picking your cotton.

  10. #25
    Member HipKat's Avatar
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    Originally posted by WNYresident
    Does anyone know of other cities where we know a casino hurt or helped business? Would be nice to get thier opinion before we go blasting or welcoming this.

    I'm very wary though how they just ok'd what ever without our input. But hey a lot of the politicians don't seem to care about the residents as it is.

    REMEMBER VOTE IN THE PRIMARIES
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    The Indians only take what we give them. They signed treaties with this state and country that gave them certain rights to do things their way AND have all the rights and privileges of the rest of us.
    To me, the argument you should be making isn't that we assimilated them, because we didn't, we partially assimilated them, and gave them their own slice of pie.
    Yes, you put food on Ricky's plate, but don't blame Ricky. Blame the state for not creating a competetive environment with the Res's. Blame the state for not having the foresight to see that things would progress further and further along (well, not excatly PROG-ress....) until a situation like we have now existed. Back in the day it was good to trade with the Indians. Now it's detrimental., like huh?? The State milks the rest of us so dry that we'd obviously rather drive the 20 miles to get smoke for half price and gas for .25 cheaper. Then they want to put a atop to that.

    Personally, I wish they WOULD build a casino downtown, or more so on the Waterfront. OK, so locals will make up the majority, but Buffalo from Ft. Erie is a lot closer than Niagara Falls is. And there ARE other people who would go there. We actually do attract people to this town. Ever heard of conventions? Sporting events? ?We seem to be getting alot of those collegiate sporting events recently. They draw outsiders here. Having casino's could lead to slots in other business within their little comfort zone. Think EB Greens would draw more patrons if they had a room with a few slots?? I go to Ft. Erie and there's more people in the casino than in the stands.

    OH, and BTW, don't EVEN get me started on Iraq. The 51% that put THAT bozo back in office can take the blame for what's going on there. I didn't vote for it, I know that.
    Let me articulate this for you:
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  11. #26
    Member 300miles's Avatar
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    my question from another post is - why are we limiting ourselves to the indians at all? There are plenty of American gambling companies that I'm sure would be happy to build a casino downtown.

    Buffalo and NYS always have to make things more difficult than they need to be.

    BTW - someone earlier had mentioned the casinos in Detroit as if they're doing major harm to the city. There was controversy about them just as we have... but they definitely bring people downtown. Downtown detroit is improving very rapidly lately for several reasons and one piece of that was the well planned casinos.

  12. #27
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    So, to corner you a little, who determines who's an Indian? My kids have got a little in them...but they can't buy gas tax free? What, 'cause they're MOSTLY white? There are no truely full-blooded Indians anymore. Fact, but it doesn't get my kids anything at the reservation.

    My father is blood Sioux (as far as the Sioux are concerned) because he went through a ritual and was made so, but da gubment doesn't recognize that.

    Particularly, that's why I hate the term ""Native American". That term is BS, and whenever I see it, I check it off, because I was born here too.

    You gotta have some physical characteristic to be an Indian?

    Or, are you only a true Indian if the United States Government says you are with some card or program? Talk about having your culture ripped out of you....

    "American Indian" is the most proud terminology someone could be recognized as - no one has suffered so much, and has been screwed over repeatedly as much as the American Indian.

    You think the Indians are stealing? Try going over to France or Germany and imposing the Erie County sale tax over there. Try Canada! Nobody has been conquered more than Canada! Ya ought to be able to scare them into paying NYS taxes, but not the Senecas..... and they are right.

    While you think about answering, here's a funny....I once saw a bumpersticker on the Wind River Reservation in Wyoming that said, "Custer Wore Arrow Shirts." I laughed my tail off.

    Changed my entire way of thinking.



    Originally posted by Grumpy
    Curmudgeon,

    I just don't see this issue the same as you do. For whatever reason, the federal gov't felt guilty and gave the reservations some perks. Like tax free cigarettes and gas. Fine, any american indian is entitled to those perks, everyone else isn't To me it is no different than the other thread somewhere on this board about a contractor undercutting everyone else because he got materials from the gov't for a gov't contract, and then sold the unused material to the public. It is outright theft. Same for the indians, what they don't use, they shouldn't be allowed to sell at a profit.
    101st Airborne...
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    ...'nuff said.

  13. #28
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    What is everyone so worried about?? This is Buffalo! Nothing is coming here, No Nothing!! Have you seen anything cone to Buffalo over the last 20 years?? Well why would they come now we are a mess around here.

  14. #29
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    Angry

    I wouldn't worry much about taxes on smokes and gas. They already raises the price so high on smokes, not to mention don't allow us to do it anywhere, that most people have already quit including myself. ***** them I'm not paying that much tax on smokes. And as far as the gas tax goes don't worry they already think we don't pay enough and are afraid we all might get a hi-bred car- I'm sure they will be jumping on board with the new device put on your vehicle and charging you for every mile you drive!! Its all about money, OUR MONEY!!!

  15. #30
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    aboriginal rights

    for the senecas to get a casino they are supposed to have aboriginal rights to the land. well check history buffalo is not the senecas aboriginal land they drove off the Hurons who drove off the tribe befor them and so on. when we fought the british we were just the last of the line to controll the area. aboriginal rights mean they started here, no one started here. also all the die hards who want the casino check other areas that have one The tribes use the profits to buy land around the casino which is then no longer taxed, the casinos provide everything a person would want, no money goes anywhere else, and tax free gas cigaretts etc ruin every small store in the area. Nothing can stop them from building a tax free mall that sells everything.
    One good thing about growing old is your secrets are safe with your friends they can't remember them either

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