View Poll Results: Should Unions be allowed to fight for the employment of illegal aliens?

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Thread: Unions use Union money to fight for the employment of illegal aliens?

  1. #1
    Member Sylvan's Avatar
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    Unions use Union money to fight for the employment of illegal aliens?

    Should Unions be allowed to use Union money to fight for the employment of illegal aliens?

    So it looks as though things have finally come full circle for the American unskilled labor force. While many have spent decades paying union dues and.. at least in the last 20 years... getting very little for their money.... the nation's largest unions (AFLCIO, etc) have seen union membership decline as more and more Americans become educated and employable in higher paying professions... and labor laws now ensure most of the rights that made the unions necessary to begin with. Many people who used to praise their union.. as they made $20 an hour + benefits for sweeping a floor or standing at an assembly line snapping toy wheels onto plastic trucks... are now cursing those very same unions as they are working at Wal-Mart part time selling the toys they used to make... for less than they used to make per hour... because their old employers closed shop and went over sees to find cheaper labor.

    Add to that the fact that many of the unskilled labor jobs that still remain in the USA belong to illegals now... and you can see why the big-wigs in the unions are beginning to feel the pinch of declining union membership, They are starting to worry about where they will get the money for their massive 6 figure salaries if not from the poorest of our labor force...

    But wait... all may not be lost.

    It seems that now... the very unions who are taking money from the poorest of Americas employed citizens.. are also fighting for the right to unionize illegal aliens...

    [www.heraldtribune.com]

    [www.sfgate.com]

    [sacbee.com]

    [www.youtube.com]

    [www.numbersusa.com]

    [www.southcoasttoday.com]

    My favorite part...

    "John O'Connor and three union buddies spent a day driving around Nantucket last week, looking for illegal aliens.

    They weren't hard to find.
    Links

    Virtually the entire house framing industry in New England over the past decade has been taken over by foreign nationals who will work far cheaper than Americans, unionized or otherwise.

    And in the booming house construction market on Nantucket, Salvadorans, Jamaicans and especially Brazilians many of them "illegal immigrants" are everywhere.

    The undocumenteds supposedly are working as "independent contractors," usually for around $15 an hour. Because they're independent contractors, their "employers" can skip out on paying into the workers compensation pool; the illegals, in turn, can skip out on paying taxes at the end of the year.

    The foreign workers have devastated the industry, driving down wages and benefits, not to mention job opportunities.

    So the members of the New England Regional Council of Carpenters and a handful other construction unions such as the council of allied painters have now officially given up fighting the tidal wave.

    Mr. O'Connor recalls telling Ted Kennedy several years ago that the union would like to sign up the illegals but was afraid.

    "Don't worry about it!" he said the senator told him. "You're not the INS. Organize them!""

    Yes... you read that right... They same unions who are taking money from American laborers.. and in most cases... not giving the laborers the right to decline membership... are using that money to lobby congress for the legal right to UNIONIZE the same illegals who are working in this country because they will take one third of the salary of a legal citizen.

    In several cases... these unions are currently using the money paid by union members... legal citizens... to fight ICE in court after ICE raids factories and hauls away illegals. That's right. A poverty stricken American cant get a job as a carpenter because illegal aliens will work the same job for less money... and when Ice steps in. The AFLCIO uses union dues to pay attorneys to fight AGAINST ICE.

    Why?

    Because... once Congress (Ty Mr. Kennedy... btw) gives the OK for them to charge union dues to illegals... they will already be seen as saviors... and the money will once again start rolling in to the unions.

    REAL and LEGAL businesses... who pay American employees... who pay income taxes... are the backbone of this nation. Construction companies... etc... who hire according to the law... pay a decent wage... pay their proper share of taxes.. pay for business licenses... pay worker's compensation... pay for health insurance... give paid vacations so that their employees actually have time to go blow a couple thousand dollars here and there... etc... they are a vital part of the functioning of our nation's finances... infrastructure and health care system. When those businesses can't get contracts because they are being ridiculously underbid by *Under the table" companies employing illegals so they don't have all of the out of pocket expenses... so that those illegals can live 15 to a 2 bedroom apartment here... and send money back to their own country... the entire nation suffers. We end up with MORE Americans on unemployment.. MORE Americans on Welfare... MORE Americans without health care coverage... and LESS money being put back into our own economy.

    And THIS is what America's largest labor unions are using the American blue-collar worker's dues to fight for in court. If they win this... we can stop worrying about out-sourcing... because companies won't have to go overseas to pay 3rd world wages. They will have unionized in-sourcing.

    The days of the need for labor unions has come and gone. What I don't understand is the fact that union members sit by and continue to pay dues while their money is being used to fight for the rights of people who are undercutting their *union* wages.

    It's like... the unions raised hell until wages were raised... now they are advocating for people who work for less than the union allows companies to pay citizens.

    It just boggles the mind that citizen union members do not revolt. Someone somewhere has got to wake up and smell the coffee.

  2. #2
    Member run4it's Avatar
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    Unions should do with their collected dues whatever the union members vote they should do.
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

  3. #3
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run4it
    Unions should do with their collected dues whatever the union members vote they should do.


    Exactly!


    Unions are essentially corporations where members are essentially shareholders. The product of that corporation is labor. The corporation/union only is responsible to the shareholders/union members and only should act in the best interest of those who are vested in the corporations.


    I am so glad you now can see the light run!

  4. #4
    Member Sylvan's Avatar
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    but...but...but....they're ILLEGAL aliens.

    OR...is there a hidden agenda in your post? Turn a blind eyes to Unions loading up with illegals so immigration can bust them in bulk? And hopefully weaken the union?

  5. #5
    Member DR_GONZO's Avatar
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    These unions should be kicked out of the country along with the illegals they are trying to employ.

  6. #6
    Member run4it's Avatar
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    I think you're missing the point Gonzo. Unions are trying to keep illegals out as well, not get them to come in. They're as protectionist as Lou Dobbs, though probably for somewhat different reasons.

    But you bring us to a larger issue: unions should be banned? That's a violation of the free market. There was no law saying that we had to form unions, no CEO decreed that his workers should unionize. It was a free market reaction to the overarching abuses by employers. Creation of unions was not by fiat; it was by nature and free market economics.
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

  7. #7
    Member Sylvan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run4it
    I think you're missing the point Gonzo. Unions are trying to keep illegals out as well, not get them to come in. They're as protectionist as Lou Dobbs, though probably for somewhat different reasons.

    But you bring us to a larger issue: unions should be banned? That's a violation of the free market. There was no law saying that we had to form unions, no CEO decreed that his workers should unionize. It was a free market reaction to the overarching abuses by employers. Creation of unions was not by fiat; it was by nature and free market economics.
    Maybe necessary in an Industrialization, but we have shifted to a service society with a very very high number of dependents. Dont you think its time that people represented themselves based on their own merits.

  8. #8
    Member run4it's Avatar
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    15 years ago I (admittedly less educated) believed in free trade and open negotiation. Since that time, both my education, my observation and rumination, and the changes in world circumstances and context have led me to believe in a more protectionist stance. And yes that includes, to a certain extent, unionism (at least as a protectionist mechanism).

    Yep...believe it or not, as a junior/senior in high school, I was a ditto-head
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

  9. #9
    Member CSense's Avatar
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    Union leadership would like amnesty for those already here so that they can unionize those workers.

    Businesses would like amnesty or some type of work Visa to keep wages depressed.

    There will be a battle royal between the two (Unions & Businesses) as they try and lure them (illegals) to each side. One by higher wages and benefits, the other by fear of job security.

    If Unions or businesses want to keep spending their money on the status of illegals, they can go for it.

  10. #10
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    I do have one questions about UNIONS for EVERYONE out there:

    Do you think the average UNION member is like the average American when it comes to running their organization/country? And by this i mean, are they are clueless to what the FEW leaders they have are doing. Do they honestly understand that their leaders DON'T have "joe the plummer's" (since they are a union) best interest in mind when they make many of their choices? Do union members like americans realise then managment like the governemt ONLY sees them as a source of INCOME/REVENUE?

    And lastly do you think most UNION member vote like Americans, not based on what the candidate WILL ACTUALLY do for them but by who supports them?

  11. #11
    Member FMD's Avatar
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    If you think large corporatiuons would never poop on their non unoinized employees, just look at Walmart. Unions are good for america if the power is balanced. The problem we have today is that the Unions have become WAY TOO demanding. And companies are caving under their over zealous demands.

    But for anyone to say unions are out right 'bad' you need to go get a job at Walmart and be there for 6 months, and see if your attitude regarding unions changes.

    Unions have their place, they keep jobs secure from ahole bosses. The ensure a LIVING wage, they ensure protections against singling out employees. They helped create safer job sites. They help to keep companies honest with their employees.

    However, for those who believe all unions should be disbanded, and that people should stand alone against a multibillion dollar corporation, you seriously need to pull you head out of your pooper is you think those corporations wont walk all over their employees.

    Unions are good. But at the same time, can be bad. Right now we are seeing the negative of what can happen when unions become too demanding. A balanced union works well for everyone. What we have with the UAW is an unbalanced union.

  12. #12
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMD View Post
    If you think large corporatiuons would never poop on their non unoinized employees, just look at Walmart. Unions are good for america if the power is balanced. The problem we have today is that the Unions have become WAY TOO demanding. And companies are caving under their over zealous demands.

    But for anyone to say unions are out right 'bad' you need to go get a job at Walmart and be there for 6 months, and see if your attitude regarding unions changes.

    Unions have their place, they keep jobs secure from ahole bosses. The ensure a LIVING wage, they ensure protections against singling out employees. They helped create safer job sites. They help to keep companies honest with their employees.

    However, for those who believe all unions should be disbanded, and that people should stand alone against a multibillion dollar corporation, you seriously need to pull you head out of your pooper is you think those corporations wont walk all over their employees.

    Unions are good. But at the same time, can be bad. Right now we are seeing the negative of what can happen when unions become too demanding. A balanced union works well for everyone. What we have with the UAW is an unbalanced union.

    What a bunch of crap!

    First off the "Wal-Mart Agrument" is pathetic. Just what skills does someone need to work at Wal-Mart. The answer is little to none.

    What "we" need is for everyone to understand the concept of NOT ALL JOBS ARE CREATED EQUAL. Unions have never nor will they ever understand this.

    There was a time for unions and they did a LOT of good. However, what they did accomplish is getting laws put in place that rendered them useless outside of job security. Even job security, which was the strongest selling point of unions, is non existent.

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