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Thread: more bad bflo biz news....

  1. #1
    Unregistered bigpoppapuff's Avatar
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    more bad bflo biz news....

    General Motors Scraps Plans to Build New V-8 Engine
    (January 3, 2008) - - News 4 has confirmed that General Motors has scrapped plans to build a new V-8 engine. The GM Tonawanda Engine Plant notified UAW Region 9 offices Thursday morning that plans for the engine have been cancelled.

    UAW Assistant Regional Director Kevin Donovan tells News 4 Senior Correspondent Rich Newberg that 150 jobs are impacted by the turn of events.

    However, Donovan says a new package of GM buyouts and early retirements incentives is anticipated. The 150 positions could then be saved.

    Donovan believes new federal laws requiring higher gas mileage are the reason for the change of plans at GM. He also says higher oil prices might be to blame and says the market would not support a V-8 engine.

  2. #2
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpoppapuff
    General Motors Scraps Plans to Build New V-8 Engine
    (January 3, 2008) - - News 4 has confirmed that General Motors has scrapped plans to build a new V-8 engine. The GM Tonawanda Engine Plant notified UAW Region 9 offices Thursday morning that plans for the engine have been cancelled.

    UAW Assistant Regional Director Kevin Donovan tells News 4 Senior Correspondent Rich Newberg that 150 jobs are impacted by the turn of events.

    However, Donovan says a new package of GM buyouts and early retirements incentives is anticipated. The 150 positions could then be saved.

    Donovan believes new federal laws requiring higher gas mileage are the reason for the change of plans at GM. He also says higher oil prices might be to blame and says the market would not support a V-8 engine.


    I was thinking about all of the auto ruins in Buffalo the other day.

    If GM and Ford were to leave completely, there would be enough plants sitting empty for a new manufacture to come in and not have a the build out cost.

    I wonder if Nissan, Toyota, BMW or some non-US car manufacture could ever be sold on WNY. That is of course provided there was something on the books that the UAW would stay the hell away.

    Maybe some of that power that comes from WNY that goes downstate could be brought back home. Maybe people would be happy with $18 an hour and security instead of $30 an hour, union dues and walking on egg shells.

    Who knows...maybe it is just a dream.

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    but all hope is not lost....German Auto manufacturers are producing mainly diesel engines....and not just any diesel engines but diesel engines that get 50mpg ....without a hybrid engine

    GMs Opel division in europe may have just such an engine

    there is also one or two american developers that can beat the european engines by mixing diesel with hydrogen and claim to get up to 100mpg on a diesel engine

    those high mpg requirements may not be good for V8s but the GM Powertrain plant is already the largest engine plant for flex fuel engines as well as regular engines.

    If flex fuel engines take off as they have in europe than our Buffalo plant may still be sitting pretty...it stands a very good chance of switching over all their engines to flex fuel and adding new lines on top of it.

    Im not saying it will happen...only that the story of flex fuel engines are not finished in Buffalo.

  4. #4
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Hybrid vs. diesel vs. flex-fuel

    Hybrid
    Gas/electric hybrids use electric motors to assist a gasoline engine in driving the vehicle. In hybrid cars now on the market, the batteries for the electric motor are charged by the gasoline engine and by power recaptured during slowing and stopping of the vehicle.

    Vehicle costs: Adds about $2,000 to $3,000, but hybrid models usually have unrelated additional features making it difficult to assess the cost of the hybrid feature alone.

    Efficiency: Increases fuel efficiency by anywhere from 25 to 40 percent compared to vehicles with similar-sized gasoline engines.

    Fuel costs: Uses gasoline, so reduces fuel costs to the same degree that it increases fuel efficiency

    Performance: Depends on the setup. Can actually boost performance while still increasing fuel efficiency compared to a non-hybrid car. But more performance will mean less efficiency.

    Greenhouse gases: In any vehicle, CO2 emissions vary directly with the amount of fuel burned, so hybrid vehicles reduce CO2 emissions to the same degree that fuel efficiency is improved.

    Other pollution: Reduces emissions of other pollutants to the same degree that fuel efficiency is improved, assuming hybrid and non-hybrid vehicles are otherwise the same.

    The future: General Motors is working on two new plug-in hybrid vehicles, but it has not set a specific timeline. A plug-in hybrid could have its batteries charged by plugging into an electrical outlet as well as by using power generated from an on-board engine. The first GM vehicle would be a plug-in version of the new Saturn Vue Hybrid. The other would be something like the Chevrolet Volt concept car, where the wheels are driven by electricity alone, and an on-board engine is used only for back-up generator power.



    Clean diesel
    Thanks to new emissions cleaning technologies, you'll be seeing many more diesel-powered vehicles in the U.S. over the next few years. By their very nature, diesel engines offer much better fuel economy than gasoline engines. In Europe, diesels make up about half the market.

    Diesels have been scarce in the U.S. because of strict emissions standards that older diesel engines couldn't meet and because of poor consumer perceptions of diesel engines.

    Today's diesels don't puff out black foul-smelling smoke like older ones did. Because of other advancements, they don't make those clanging, rattling noises, either.

    Ultra-clean diesel fuel, which has greatly reduced sulfur content, is now available at many gas stations. Like unleaded gasoline, this low-sulfur fuel allows for more advanced emissions cleaning technologies.

    Diesel engines cost more to produce than gasoline engines, though, and the need for extra emissions cleaning devices adds even more to the cost.

    Purchase costs: Adds about $1,000 to $2,000 to vehicle cost. It can be difficult to judge final consumer cost since the diesel engine is often not directly comparable to a gasoline engine available in the same model. Unrelated features may also be included in the diesel version, and car companies don't break out the cost of the engine separately.

    Efficiency: Increases fuel efficiency from 12 to 35 percent compared to the same model with a similar-sized gasoline engine.

    Fuel costs: Uses ultra-clean diesel fuel, which fluctuates in price independently of gasoline. The engine's greater efficiency acts to reduce fuel costs, but how much is ultimately saved depends on the price of diesel fuel compared to gasoline.

    Performance: If your only experience with diesel engines comes from watching buses and trucks or driving an old diesel car from the 1980s, performance is much better than you think. It is a little different from driving a gasoline-powered vehicle, though. Engine RPMs are lower than with a gasoline engine and the engine sound, while not harsh or noisy, is slightly different, too. But when you step hard on the gas pedal, the turbocharger kicks in quickly. (All modern diesel engines are turbocharged.) With its superior torque - torque gives the pull you feel when accelerating - you'll be surprised how quick a diesel car can be.

    Greenhouse gases: Diesel fuel contains more carbon than gasoline so it releases more C02 per gallon burned. The diesel engine's greater fuel efficiency, however, means considerably less C02 is released per mile driven compared to a similar-sized gasoline engine.

    Other pollution: Even with cleaner fuels and improvements in emissions controls, modern diesel engines still emit more smog-forming emissions than gasoline engines, particularly nitrous oxide.

    The future: By 2010, diesel cars will be held to exactly the same EPA emissions standards as gasoline-powered vehicles. Several car companies say they will make cars to meet those standards.



    Flex-fuel vehicles
    Flex-fuel vehicles can run on either gasoline or E85, a fuel that's 85 percent ethanol, an alcohol made from fermented plant material (in the U.S., it's usually corn) with 15 percent gasoline. To accept E85, some parts of the engine have to made from materials resistant to the corrosion ethanol can cause.

    E85 contains less energy per gallon than gasoline so when sensors in the engine detect that ethanol is being burned they adjust by, among other things, pumping more fuel into the engine. Because of this, vehicles will get about 15 percent lower fuel mileage when burning E85 rather than gasoline.

    For now, at least, E85 is almost impossible to find at gas stations outside the central Midwest. Until E85 becomes more widely available, most flex-fuel vehicles will just burn gasoline.

    Purchase costs: Adds no cost to the vehicle

    Efficiency: When running on gasoline, no difference. When running on ethanol, fuel efficiency is reduced by about 15 percent

    Fuel costs: The cost if E85 fluctuates independently of gasoline but, at the moment, it costs less. Because of E85's poorer fuel economy, though, using E85 exclusively would cost you several hundred dollars more per year, based on EPA estimates.

    Performance: No difference when running on gasoline. When running on E85, the vehicle will have a small increase in peak horsepower, but the difference will be undetectable to most drivers.

    Greenhouse gases: No difference when running on gasoline; Since a vehicle needs to burn more fuel when running on E85, more CO2 is released. However, there should be little net production of CO2, theoretically, at least, since burning plant-based ethanol releases only carbon that had recently been absorbed by the plants used to make the fuel.

    Other pollution: E85 burns more cleanly than gasoline so, in spite of burning more fuel per mile, produces about the same amount smog-forming pollutants as gasoline.

    The future: Cellulosic ethanol, which could be made from plant parts not normally used for food, could greatly increase the supply of ethanol, which may allow it to supplant a significant portion of the petroleum-based fuel now used in cars.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS
    I was thinking about all of the auto ruins in Buffalo the other day.

    If GM and Ford were to leave completely, there would be enough plants sitting empty for a new manufacture to come in and not have a the build out cost.

    I wonder if Nissan, Toyota, BMW or some non-US car manufacture could ever be sold on WNY. That is of course provided there was something on the books that the UAW would stay the hell away.

    Maybe some of that power that comes from WNY that goes downstate could be brought back home. Maybe people would be happy with $18 an hour and security instead of $30 an hour, union dues and walking on egg shells.

    Who knows...maybe it is just a dream.
    Didn't Nissan or Toyota already take a pass on the area?
    I would imagine if BMW were looking for a new US home, they would be right at home in Buffalo. IG Metall is the world's largest union!
    (having said that, if you want to see what happens when a local economy depends on a few union manufacturers ask Hip Kat to tell you about all the great things going on in Peoria these days.)

  6. #6
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie
    Didn't Nissan or Toyota already take a pass on the area?
    I would imagine if BMW were looking for a new US home, they would be right at home in Buffalo. IG Metall is the world's largest union!
    (having said that, if you want to see what happens when a local economy depends on a few union manufacturers ask Hip Kat to tell you about all the great things going on in Peoria these days.)

    People talk about Toyota passing on Buffalo but I never found anything on the net and I have searched a lot.

    My point was the infrastructure is there. I feel the only reason why the work is not is because US auto is run bad and labor is a pain in the arse.

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    Member PaulJonson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpoppapuff
    Donovan believes new federal laws requiring higher gas mileage are the reason for the change of plans at GM. He also says higher oil prices might be to blame and says the market would not support a V-8 engine.
    What amazing foresight. Keep up the good work Kevin.

  8. #8
    Member Velvet Fog's Avatar
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    I hate to see anyone losing their jobs but where the hell are all the cars being made? IN America? Mexico?

    Obviously, the car companies are not going to stop making cars so I would surmise that Mexico is cleaning up right now---as are the CEO's. Just doesn;t make much sense to me.
    Peace Out Funky

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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS
    People talk about Toyota passing on Buffalo but I never found anything on the net and I have searched a lot.

    My point was the infrastructure is there. I feel the only reason why the work is not is because US auto is run bad and labor is a pain in the arse.
    That's why it was a question. Now that I think more about it, I think I read that here on SU and not the media.
    Should either pull out of the area and the plants shut down, would the equipment likely stay or go? Or would that depend on any forthcoming offers?
    I ask that because I wonder what other manufacturing that infrastructure could be used for. Anything with a motor? anything with a body? boats? tractors? large scale equipment?
    I guess we're jumping the gun here, but always good to have a backup plan imo. We can see what happens when there is none!

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    And I think Americans would always have an interest in v-8's.

    But maybe they do have other plans about fuel economic models, and knowing our experience with the car makers, just will take years to 'retool'.

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    yes your right but there is some flexibility with diesel engines being able to accept diesel, Ultra low sulfer diesel and biodiesel and or some combination.

    just saying there is some flexibility in diesel engines as well

    and back to my original point....there are big engine changes coming in the near future because of the efficiency mpg requirements...all those new engines will be good for GM Powertrain....there is a high probability that any new engine design will be mass produced here.

    (just wish GM had a design and research center here in Buffalo with the manufacturing plant)

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