Our towns

[WNYresident]

From all that we have seen developed in the burbs, do we consider progress?

I've been in cheektowaga since i was 17 and with all this business growth I wouldn't say it was progress. Has anyone ever figured out how how excessive commerical growth acutally keeps property taxes down?

[absolivious]

Originally posted by WNYresident
From all that we have seen developed in the burbs, do we consider progress?

I've been in cheektowaga since i was 17 and with all this business growth I wouldn't say it was progress. Has anyone ever figured out how how excessive commerical growth acutally keeps property taxes down?

The largest single portion of your annual property tax payment pie goes to the school budget-- I am assuming percentages in Cheektowaga an Amherst are similar in that regard.

If the town adds 1 new residential development there is a good chance that the burden of educating 1.73 children for every new residence in that new development will be added to your school budget.

OTOH if the town were to approve no more than one new "excessive" commercial development every week, not a single child will be is added to the school burden.

[WNYresident]

AS schools are built they are paid for.. As kids grow they leave the school system. As a town age the population gets older. Replacement "new" kids fill the space which kids who have been in the system left. So isn't it like you end up leveling off the amount of kids in a school district?

Thinking about it, what did we do all before the stripmalls and box stores were built? We paid less in taxes didn't we?

[WNYresident]

So this theory basically proves town governments are over spending for our required services. If they town has visible growth but each year the tax burden increases, (IE: tax increases) they are just spending too much money in the first place.

[absolivious]

Originally posted by WNYresident
So this theory basically proves town governments are over spending for our required services. If they town has visible growth but each year the tax burden increases, (IE: tax increases) they are just spending too much money in the first place.

Is the "visible" growth commercial or residential?
Remember: commercial properties pay more in taxes than they cost in service, while residential properties cost the municipality more in services than they pay in taxes. If it weren't for commercial developements - whether "excessive" or not - the tax increases would be even greater than they are.

That, I believe, was the basis of your initial comment here, questioning the benefit of "excessive" commercial develoment.

[|- Amherst Stakeholder -|]

Originally posted by absolivious
Is the "visible" growth commercial or residential?
Remember: commercial properties pay more in taxes than they cost in service, while residential properties cost the municipality more in services than they pay in taxes. If it weren't for commercial developements - whether "excessive" or not - the tax increases would be even greater than they are.

That, I believe, was the basis of your initial comment here, questioning the benefit of "excessive" commercial develoment.

So, absolivious, if I'm reading you comment correctly a somewhat rural-ish or "suburban agriculture" community (ie: one with limited commercial development) should have extremely high taxes. Is that true? I'm not certain that it is. How are Elma's taxes compared to Amherst?... or Akron? How about Youngstown? They still have schools & libraries, snowplowing and police costs, etc.

[absolivious]

Originally posted by |- Amherst Stakeholder -|
So, absolivious, if I'm reading you comment correctly a somewhat rural-ish or "suburban agriculture" community (ie: one with limited commercial development) should have extremely high taxes. Is that true? I'm not certain that it is. How are Elma's taxes compared to Amherst?... or Akron? How about Youngstown? They still have schools & libraries, snowplowing and police costs, etc.

The towns you cite could manifest the same phenomena once each approaches build-out as are The two municipalities we are discussing.

Watch Lancaster, for example. They, infact, need more non-residential development now, just to offset the current residential explosion.

[therising]

Originally posted by |- Amherst Stakeholder -|
. How are Elma's taxes compared to Amherst?... or Akron? How about Youngstown? They still have schools & libraries, snowplowing and police costs, etc.

Those towns also have fairly low populations, and less need for services.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by absolivious
The towns you cite could manifest the same phenomena once each approaches build-out as are The two municipalities we are discussing.

Watch Lancaster, for example. They, infact, need more non-residential development now, just to offset the current residential explosion.

MAybe instead of making business take the brunt of the taxes we have everyone pay what they should. WHy should businesses pay more for services than home owners? With this theory as businesses move out the home owners are stuck with a higher bill in the end.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by therising
Those towns also have fairly low populations, and less need for services.

WHy would fewer people need less services. If you had 5 governmental employees per 1000 people... why when you have 4000 people you would need more than 5 governmental employees per 1000 people?

Honestly we are paying everyone across the board too much. Like it or not, our taxes are covering a major part of that.

[Curmudgeon]

MAybe instead of making business take the brunt of the taxes we have everyone pay what they should. WHy should businesses pay more for services than home owners?

They shouldn't.

The problem is politicians know that there a lot more residents out there than business owners who actually live in the town. It's easier to raise taxes on businesses because the politicians know that the business owners can't vote them out of office. The problem is over the long term, businesses have to raise prices for goods/services, which ultimately get passed onto the residents, or they just go out of business altogether.

So if you're a business owner and you feel you're getting screwed, talk to your politicians to get an "abatement", a.k.a. negotiating your tax burden. If you don't get a fair offer, close your business and move elsewhere, an many others before you have done.

And you wonder why there are so many "vacant storefronts" in Benderson properties......

[WNYresident]

And you wonder why there are so many "vacant storefronts" in Benderson properties......

There must be tons of money in development. Where you can build a building and have it vacant for months and still turn a profit while paying property taxes on those empty buildings.

OR they are really boning the businesses in those buildings with high enough rents to offset the loses from the empty buildings. Once the developer gets large enough they buy up any cheap area to build before someone else could come in and offer lower rents.

[Curmudgeon]

OR they are really boning the businesses in those buildings with high enough rents to offset the loses from the empty buildings.

Yes, you are correct: all businesses that rent pay a premium on the generally poor local ecconomy to subsidize the high rate of business failure and subsequent vacancies of the properties they rented.

Once the developer gets large enough they buy up any cheap area to build before someone else could come in and offer lower rents.

That's just absurd. There are many developers and a whole lot of vacant land on the market. No developer is able to corner the market on rental properties. Please stop trying to blame developers for WNY malaise - they are just as much victims as small business is. Perhaps that's why Benderson bailed out of WNY and moved to Florida. If the gettin' was so good, they'd still be here instead of liquidating a lot of their holdings and heading south...

[Night Owl]

I don't know if this applies to what you two are saying, but I have seen a lot of empty lots being developed without a plan of who's going to rent it.

A building will go up, ample parking, lighting ... the works and when the project is complete these a sign along the road or on the building that says "Space available for lease".

[therising]

Originally posted by WNYresident
MAybe instead of making business take the brunt of the taxes we have everyone pay what they should. WHy should businesses pay more for services than home owners? With this theory as businesses move out the home owners are stuck with a higher bill in the end.

So you're recommending tax increases for residents?