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Thread: Your tax dollars at work

  1. #31
    Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    It seems to me that Crum's comments have more to do with his unreasonable dislike of the store's demographic than the money being spent.

    2. The Coop has a long and successfull track record in a quaint but marginal location. The new location will give it a prominent and convenient location in a very wealthy neighborhood with the type of eduacted and monied demographic which supports organic and health oriented food.
    Holy Cow! I didn't know it was such an excellent investment opportunity! If that were the case, those folks would have no problem obtaining credit through private means (like most other small businesses). Why don't YOU loan them the money?
    Data is not the plural of Anecdote.

  2. #32
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    Originally posted by Curmudgeon
    Holy Cow! I didn't know it was such an excellent investment opportunity! If that were the case, those folks would have no problem obtaining credit through private means (like most other small businesses). Why don't YOU loan them the money?

    Many of their members did loan them money and as a matter of fact the vast majority of their financing is private. It is funny Curm you did not comment on any of my other points. Perhaps you agree with me then?

    You do realize that many of the best investment oportunities are the riskiest and it is the willingness to take risk that drives our economy. Buffalo is in a life or death struggle with wealthier preditory sunbelt cities not to mention nearby competitors such as Amherst. Risks on unique city building small businesses are exactly what the city needs to take chances on. I will take a thousand of these risks over one casino or one Bass Pro.

  3. #33
    Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Many of their members did loan them money and as a matter of fact the vast majority of their financing is private.
    Well! Since they have been so successful getting the "vast majority" of the financing through private channels, it's not much to expect the remaining "tiny minority" of financing to be private as well.

    It is funny Curm you did not comment on any of my other points. Perhaps you agree with me then?
    My time is limited. I responded to the most egregious of your post. Assume I disagree with all of it.

    Buffalo is in a life or death struggle with wealthier preditory sunbelt cities....
    WOW! So let me get this straight: Sunbelt cities are actively scheming to kill Buffalo by offering better local government to their citizens?!?!? Why are they wealthy? BECAUSE CAPITAL IS ATTRACTED TO GOOD ECONOMIES! Why is Buffalo poor? BECAUSE CAPITAL IS FLEEING PEOPLE LIKE YOU!

    By your reasoning, Mexico is in a life-and-death struggle with the U.S. because we manage our government so much better, causing ambitious young Mexicans (probably their best and brightest) to hop the fence into othe U.S. for a better life...

    That's laughable. out-loud laughable.


    Risks on unique city building small businesses are exactly what the city needs to take chances on.
    So what you want to do is take money from other business owners via taxes and give it to an established business that is neither scalable or particularly profitibale. Co-Op implies "non-profit" to me.

    Just what we need - more wealth-redistribution for the post-grad downtown dwellers so they can have a fuzzy shopping experience while buying FOOD.

    Have a nice day.
    Data is not the plural of Anecdote.

  4. #34
    Member LaNdReW's Avatar
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    hmm

    Originally posted by Curmudgeon
    There already exists in WNY a very healthy private sector food distribution system. Why taxpayer money should subsidize an unprofitable alternate small-scale distributor (co-op) is beyond me.
    Curm, I understand most of where you are coming from, but if we have such a great food dist. system, why do many small stores by from Sams club? Ill tell ya why, its cheaper than buying from a wholesaler..

    (i am not considering Sams a part of the dist system, they are retail vs wholesale)

    Is this co-op un profitable?
    "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis (1935)

  5. #35
    Member WestSideJohn's Avatar
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    Re: hmm

    Originally posted by LaNdReW
    Is this co-op un profitable?
    I was under the impression that the co-op exists as a not-for-profit. No, it doesn't make a profit... but it's not supposed to.

    I agree more or less with Curmudgeon's concerns about this deal, but I'm also kind of disgusted by his hatred toward the co-op's membership, which in addition to being unpleasant to see, is also irrelevant to the issue of whether this is smart use of our tax money.

    Many of my friends and neighbors belong to the co-op. They work just as hard as you or anyone else on this board. They obey the law. They pay taxes. If you don't want the city to loan them money to build a new store, fine. I can agree with that. But just keep in mind that "holier than thou" only works if you're actually holier.

    Treachery made a monster out of me

  6. #36
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    not for profit doesnt mean the salaries paid to the operation's organizers arent profitable. Just means the entity cant make a profit.

    Salaries paid is always interesting with these organizations.

    I'm amazed that the "little store that could" is taking on all this debt service. Should be interesting to see how they survive it.

  7. #37
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    Please define "hippie".

    Lars
    "... the world is full of educated derelicts..." Calvin Coolidge

  8. #38
    Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Curm, I understand most of where you are coming from, but if we have such a great food dist. system, why do many small stores by from Sams club? Ill tell ya why, its cheaper than buying from a wholesaler..
    ??? Sam's Club IS part of the distribution network. That's why retailers who buy from there don't pay sales tax.

    You have (by far) the most efficient and cost-effective food manufacturing and distribution system in the world. That's why we're all so fat.


    I agree more or less with Curmudgeon's concerns about this deal, but I'm also kind of disgusted by his hatred toward the co-op's membership, which in addition to being unpleasant to see, is also irrelevant to the issue of whether this is smart use of our tax money.
    I don't hate anybody, especially the food Bohemians. I just find it incredulous the arguments presented for a taxpayer-subsidized loan. It's stuff like this that is just exaberating the problems of WNY. Here's an idea: stop meddling in the free market of a healthy sector of the ecomony! Let the boutique retail establishments stand on their own merits. What's next? Taxpayer-supported florests, barbers, and skate-board shops? Where does it end?

    I got sick of hearing all the holier-than-thou comments about how "great a business" a food co-op is and "what great people" shop there. It's the co-op crowd with their hands in the taxpayer wallet that is suffering from elitism, not I.
    Data is not the plural of Anecdote.

  9. #39
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Buffalo is in a life or death struggle with wealthier preditory sunbelt cities....

    This is the mode we should be in... PReditory for other companies to relocate to NYS. WNY preferablly in this case. But we can't be because over all we are over taxed.

  10. #40
    Member Trolls_r_us's Avatar
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    I'm a member of the co-op, mostly for the bulk spices

    Boy... a TEACHER *and* a Co-op member!

    I'm right up there with King Joel on this board!
    The truth from a troll is still the truth.

  11. #41
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    I don't think LLLiberalllll Hippie Coop members should be allowed to teach our children

  12. #42
    Member Trolls_r_us's Avatar
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    I can fill my spice jars for 25-50 cents at the co-op, or go to Tops and buy the SAME amount of spice for about 4 bucks, depending on the spice in question

    I cook a lot and use a lot of different spices....

    that makes me a liberal?

    In that case, wrap me in the french flag and call me Al Franken

    LMFAO

    Honestly, some of you seem to be looking for things to get all enraged at...

    Isn't that what the neo cons say liberals do??
    The truth from a troll is still the truth.

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