Sewage woes require costly solution

[dtwarren]

From: http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article468624.ece

When heavy rain pours down in West Seneca, it can mean two unpleasant things: Sewage bubbles up in some basements, and it drains into Cazenovia Creek.

And the town — like many northeast communities with aging sewer systems — is facing another unpleasant reality. The cost of fixing the problems will likely mean sewer rates will go up in many areas of the town.

It’s such a complex and expensive issue that it has taken seven years since the town first agreed to reduce the sewage that flows into the creek to study the issue and come up with a comprehensive list of recommended repairs.

“There is no magic fix to this,” said Richard B. Henry III, senior vice president for Clark Patterson Lee and the town engineer.

Henry told residents and Town Board members last week that the first phase of repairs could cost the town about $30 million—money that will likely need to be borrowed through bonds.

But for residents like Janice Doctor, the help can’t come soon enough. Doctor, who has lived on Azalea Drive since 1963, has seen sewer backups in her basement worsen during the last decade.

“When it rains real hard or if we have a snowmelt, we get bombarded with that stuff,” Doctor said. “That sewer water, it’s terrible. It comes up through the showers and comes up through the toilets.”

The problems stem from a variety of issues — from backups where pipe connections can’t handle capacity to sump pumps that dump water into the system. But much of it boils down to this: Water that’s not sewage is getting in.

Recorded flows during high-rain events, Henry said, can be five times the average daily amount.

The heavy rains that hit the region this spring were a headache for residents like Doctor, who has installed a valve to shut off her water when the rain starts.

But there’s another problem when the West Seneca system is overwhelmed — typically by rain and ground water that seeps into the sanitary system — and it’s an issue the state Department of Environmental Conservation wants addressed. The town’s system allows sewage to overflow into Cazenovia Creek at five points.

[FisherRd]

The only way to fix the sewers, or tackle any real problem, is to enact term limits. Nobody looking to get re-elected is going to want to touch tar-babies!
(I enjoy when people say "we do have term limits, it's called the 'vote'"...While technically true, in reality, it never seems to pan out that way)

So, would you be up for term limits? I know it wouldn't eliminate the nonsense, but it may reduce it.
Councilman-2 consecutive terms
Supervisor-2 terms in total

[WS Mom]

In case you haven't read it, Sheila Meegan and Dale Clarke have been working their butts off on the sewer issue. In addition to the Town Engineer's presentation, there have been two public work sessions to explore/discuss the issue, the last one on August 5 at the Sr. Center was poorly attended. Sheila Meegan has said right along that it is time for the politicians to do the hard thing and deal with this problem.

It should also be noted that on large expenditures, such as the sewer repair/replacement and the ice rink replacement, those issues must go before the public for a permissive referendum vote. There is no way for the politicians to bond the taxpayers to that extent without taxpayer consent. For example, the taxpayers just turned down an ice rink improvement in Hamburg.

My opinion is that term limits are irrelevant.

[TheLegendKiller]

I would think it is something that could be tried. Can you imagine Bush getting a third term? I see it as a double, possibly triple edge sword. What if you had the best most impressive person ever who did a phenominal job? We would bounce him or her because of term limits? I could see it leading to more voter apathy as well: they'll be gone in four years, so who cares? And also it takes a few years to really learn the job. Is it worth investing the first half to full first term to get one really good term out of them?

If it were to lead to officials making decisions absent of reelection concerns, I would be cool with it. Potentially worth a shot.

As far as permissive referrendums, they built the Burchfield Art Center and Soccer Complex without a referrendum. Cheektowaga approved an addition to its court house without one. So not sure on that.

One question I do have though, if the public voted down a sewer repair referrendum, what would happen? They would be left to fall apart even more?

[WS Mom]

Yep, I believe so. Until the cost to run it exceeds the cost to repair it. We will keep on polluting our drinking water until we have an e-coli epidemic or the lake becomes so polluted again that we have to ration its use. Sad but true. I also believe that sprawl has contributed greatly to this problem, which also affects the City and all first-ring suburbs. More flows through even though our population has decreased.... hmmm, how does that happen? And we want more residential? Commercial development has so much less of an impact in terms of use of community resources. These are the issues we should be dealing with TOGETHER as a community.

[FisherRd]

TLK,
Very reasonable post, points, and questions!

I have to say that the fact all that **** and piss is literally flowing in to Caz is nasty! I think about all the times I've walked it while fishing and all those poor fools that swim in it by Mercy Hospital!
Also, can you imagine having that feces back up in your basement every time it rains hard? It's disgusting enough when your own toilet overflows or get's plugged, but having some other people's turds floating in your house is just too much!

As for the sprawl/development, it's a catch 22. What are you to do, raze low end neighborhoods and put housing developments and businesses? I hate to see greenspace and park-like settings disappear, but you can't improve a lot of the existing buildings and neighborhoods, and you can't pass up the new tax base...

Part of the charm/draw of the burbs is the greenspace, trees, and elbow room. Lots of tough choices to be made.

[wsresident24]

Lets not try to fool anyone. wsmom...Piotrowski has been at every meeting and has coordinated the work with the engineers, so please don't be dishing all the credit to Meegan and Clark. Everyone knows there is a problem, however, if you put this to the taxpayers for a vote, there is no way people who aren't affected by it will vote yes. That solution isn't a solution.

[dtwarren]

I would think it is something that could be tried. Can you imagine Bush getting a third term? I see it as a double, possibly triple edge sword. What if you had the best most impressive person ever who did a phenominal job? We would bounce him or her because of term limits? I could see it leading to more voter apathy as well: they'll be gone in four years, so who cares? And also it takes a few years to really learn the job. Is it worth investing the first half to full first term to get one really good term out of them?

If it were to lead to officials making decisions absent of reelection concerns, I would be cool with it. Potentially worth a shot.

As far as permissive referrendums, they built the Burchfield Art Center and Soccer Complex without a referrendum. Cheektowaga approved an addition to its court house without one. So not sure on that.

One question I do have though, if the public voted down a sewer repair referrendum, what would happen? They would be left to fall apart even more?

The only reason it would be subject to a permissive referendum is due to the bonding, if it is paid for by other means it would not be subject to a permissive referendum. Those other means would include, but not be limited to: to raise taxes to pay for it; put in place a sewer user fee to raise revenue for capital improvements; a bond less than $5 million; or a combination of these and other methods.

A permissive referendum is just that permissive, the Town Board can pass the resolution authorizing the bonding subject to a permissive referendum but not schedule the referendum itself. It would then be up to the taxpayers to petition to have the referendum, if a valid petition is not filed then it goes forward on the other hand if one is filed then a special election is scheduled to put it to a vote of the residents.

[Psycho1]

The funny part about the whole sewer discussion is that it's been a problem for more than the 8 years I've lived in West Seneca, and there's still no solution! I have to wonder, who's causing the hold up? Even better, despite the problems, we allow developements to continue to be built. Pardon the expression, but we're trying to put 20 lbs. of s**t, in a 5 lb. bag. Eventually, something is going to give.

Until this is resolved, there needs to be a moritorium placed on development. What's going to happen when a developer wants to build on the Psych Center property, once it's made available. That much property is not going to sit empty, despite the aspestos problems there.The question of the sewer system will once again rear it's ugly head, because it still won't be repaired, but whomever is driving the clown car, will push for the development.

A word of advice, store your valuables high.

[WNYresident]

but whomever is driving the clown car, will push for the development.

Those clowns make money off of development.

[Psycho1]

Those clowns make money off of development.

Welcome to America.

[WS Mom]

WS-24 ... I believe that each sewer district votes on, and pays for, repairs within their own district. I think the lighting districts were handled that way when they re-did the streetlights in the Heather Hill area several years ago. The folks in that particular district pay for it, not the whole town. There was talk, at one time, about making the whole town one sewer district, but I haven't heard anything about that in a while.

[wsresident24]

I had a problem with you giving credit only to meegan and clarke for doing any work on the sewer meetings. Piotrowski is the one who is at every meeting and coordinating them with the engineers.

It's funny how meegan takes credit for uncovering the americorp problems when in fact both her and clarke did everything they could as long as they could to protect Lazarra and the Kelly (the bad cop) until they had no choice but to join in to uncover the mess.

Yes, you are correct, however, that each sewer district pays for their own repairs ...from what I have read.

[Psycho1]

Yes, you are correct, however, that each sewer district pays for their own repairs ...from what I have read.

Then I'll say it again, as I have in past posts, it's time for the Town to focus on essential services, and special interest groups to accept the fact that some of their funding gets cut. This includes hockey, soccer, seniors, Burchfield, etc. We can ill afford to fund non-essential items while our sewers continue to deteriorate. Eventually, we will have no choice but to fix the problem. So why has it taken this long? Why are our politicans, past and present, so averse to addressing the issue?

If someone can justify these special programs over the sewers, talk to me. Maybe I'm missing something.

[WNYresident]

We can ill afford to fund non-essential items while our sewers continue to deteriorate.

Priorities are set wrong... Budgeting isn't planned. But that is what happens when elections are basically popularity contest based on rumor and innuendos a lot of times.

We are going to have our lunch taken big time unless serious structure changes happen in NYS regarding spending and how it is spent...