View Poll Results: Businessmen and Farm Managers must be identified and punished for hiring illegals.

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  • Yes

    20 86.96%
  • NO

    3 13.04%
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Thread: Illegal Immigrants

  1. #1
    Member mikewrona's Avatar
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    Illegal Immigrants

    This is a good question. Fits in well with the poll on providing services to illegals. If you favor not providing services to illegal immigrants, then you should believe that businessmen and citizens who hire illegals should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, including jail time, for providing them with jobs and income.

    Will be interesting to seei what the totals for punishment will be and what excuses will be made to protect the employer of the illegals.

  2. #2
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    If you employ illegal, undocumented workers, you should be fined/jailed, whatever the proper punishment is. Period. End of story.

  3. #3
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by crabapples
    If you employ illegal, undocumented workers, you should be fined/jailed, whatever the proper punishment is. Period. End of story.
    Exactly.

  4. #4
    Member CSense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crabapples
    If you employ illegal, undocumented workers, you should be fined/jailed, whatever the proper punishment is. Period. End of story.
    Sweet mother of justice, can I get an Amen! I said, can I get an Amen! Hallelujah brother!

  5. #5
    Member run4it's Avatar
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    Not that I"m necessarily against this, but you DO realize that you're putting a decent number of farmers here in upstate NY out of business, right?
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

  6. #6
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by run4it
    Not that I"m necessarily against this, but you DO realize that you're putting a decent number of farmers here in upstate NY out of business, right?
    No we are not. THey will have to pay a little bit more for labor and we pay a few cents more per apple or what ever. I'm fine with it.

    I would rather pay 5 cents more per apple then have $100's of dollars of my income in the form of property taxes/income tax/federal taxes go to support people who invaded our country. Immigrantion is fine if handled at the levels we all can afford. THAT"S WHY THERE ARE borders.

  7. #7
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident
    No we are not. THey will have to pay a little bit more for labor and we pay a few cents more per apple or what ever. I'm fine with it.

    I would rather pay 5 cents more per apple then have $100's of dollars of my income in the form of property taxes/income tax/federal taxes go to support people who invaded our country. Immigrantion is fine if handled at the levels we all can afford. THAT"S WHY THERE ARE borders.
    The people who are working on farms aren't on social services, so how, exactly, are you paying to support them?

  8. #8
    Member JustRetired's Avatar
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    Amen! Hallelujah brother!
    If it weren't for the United States Military, there would be NO United States of America !

  9. #9
    Member CSense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    The people who are working on farms aren't on social services, so how, exactly, are you paying to support them?
    Of course I have no any proof, but I assume they are being paid under the table (no ss#) therefore, they are not paying any federal and state taxes on earned income. I'm assuming they don't fill out any annual income tax forms so they are not paying federal or state income tax.

    If they see any physicians, It's most likely at the Emergency room for which they are not paying and getting a free service.

    The only tax they are paying is sales tax. They are probably renting, therefore paying into a local municipal tax system. Can't be much of an abode on the minimum wages that they are earning.

    If they have any children, they are going to school without paying any real school tax due to their meager living conditions.

  10. #10
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSense
    Of course I have no any proof, but I assume they are being paid under the table (no ss#) therefore, they are not paying any federal and state taxes on earned income. I'm assuming they don't fill out any annual income tax forms so they are not paying federal or state income tax.

    If they see any physicians, It's most likely at the Emergency room for which they are not paying and getting a free service.

    The only tax they are paying is sales tax. They are probably renting, therefore paying into a local municipal tax system. Can't be much of an abode on the minimum wages that they are earning.

    If they have any children, they are going to school without paying any real school tax due to their meager living conditions.
    The farm workers who live here year-round are mostly white and work on dairy farms. Very few dairy farms hire non-English speaking workers, although some hire Amishmen if they're out in the Randolph, Cherry Creek, Leon areas. The much larger numbers of farm workers in this area who work on truck crop farms -- the veggie farms in the Eden Valley or the fruit farms in Niagara or Chautauqua County -- are mostly single men who go South when the growing/harvesting season is done in this area.

    Why do you assume that the farmers hire them "under the table"? If farmers don't have records that they paid their laborers, they can't expense that, and seem to have made much more money than they did. Many times the farmers deal with labor contractors who bring in the actual workers. Many illegals also have SSNs but they never collect.

  11. #11
    Member mikewrona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run4it
    Not that I"m necessarily against this, but you DO realize that you're putting a decent number of farmers here in upstate NY out of business, right?
    A decent farmer would not hire illegal aliens in order to avoid maying the legal minimum wage, health care, pension, vacations, medicare, report them on your business income taxes, etc.

    It is like economic slavery.

  12. #12
    Member CSense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    The farm workers who live here year-round are mostly white and work on dairy farms. Very few dairy farms hire non-English speaking workers, although some hire Amishmen if they're out in the Randolph, Cherry Creek, Leon areas. The much larger numbers of farm workers in this area who work on truck crop farms -- the veggie farms in the Eden Valley or the fruit farms in Niagara or Chautauqua County -- are mostly single men who go South when the growing/harvesting season is done in this area.
    White illegals?

    Why do you assume that the farmers hire them "under the table"? If farmers don't have records that they paid their laborers, they can't expense that, and seem to have made much more money than they did. Many times the farmers deal with labor contractors who bring in the actual workers. Many illegals also have SSNs but they never collect.
    Ok so the farmer is not paying under the table the contractor is, excuse me. The SS#s, if the do have them are not real because they do not issue them to illegals.

    So, how about all the other things I mentioned? So then we are subsidizing them.

  13. #13
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    The people who are working on farms aren't on social services, so how, exactly, are you paying to support them?
    If that is the case and they are only making less the minimun wage how are they completely supporting themselves?

    No heap? food stamps? welfare? Section 8? anything? Schooling for kids?

  14. #14
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident
    If that is the case and they are only making less the minimun wage how are they completely supporting themselves?

    No heap? food stamps? welfare? Section 8? anything? Schooling for kids?
    I never said that farm workers are making less than minimum wage. I said that most of the year-round farm workers in WNY work on dairy farms and are whites, mostly locals. Dairy farms don't have large staffs, usually one or maybe two "hired men". They get by with part-timers, too, men and women who help with milking mostly, and college kids to help with haying in the summer. Sometimes the farmers provide a "tenant house" or an apartment over a garage, but usually non-family farm workers live elsewhere.

    The fruit and vegetable farms are the ones that have migrant workers, and have had them since about WWII. For decades, these migrants were mostly Puerto Ricans (who are American citizens) and West Indians, primarily single men (or at least men without families in tow). They lived in "shacks" before the 1960s, and in "camps" since then. There are some classic migrant worker camps out in the Eden Valley and in North Collins. They are barracks-like facilities with minimal kitchen facilities and basic bathrooms, and not the kind of places to welcome families.

    In other parts of the country, where there's more farm work year around, the migrant workers might include more families, but that doesn't seem to be a common pattern in WNY.

  15. #15
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    I suppose it depends.
    If a farmer (who is a business person because that is what a farm is) is allowed to legally ask a person's immigration status, then yes they should be punished for hiring illegal aliens. However, if a farmer/business person is not allowed to ask, then no, they should not be held accountable.
    First Amendment rights are like muscles, if you don't exercise them they will atrophy.

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