Metro Expansion

[nicole]

Should the Metro Rail Expand to the Airport and other sites of interest within the region? If so please state which sites in a reply.

yes or no

[WNYresident]

If they expanded the metro to the airport do you think people would go to a downtown hotel versus all the hotels they are building in cheektowaga near the airport and on walden ave?

[300miles]

I voted yes for the airport. I think people would most definetly go to a hotel downtown instead of cheektowaga. There's much more to do. I've had friends stay by the airport that complained how boring "buffalo" was... I had to point out they weren't even in buffalo.

I have to make a comment about this poll though... Could you add UB North Campus? That is much higher on the list than some of the other selections, and it was the original expansion plan anyway.

Also, what is with the "expansion to Chippewa"? The train already goes right by Chippewa! It doesn't need to expand there!

[biker]

As a frequent Metro Rail rider, I say

Absolutely Not!!!

Metro Rail never fulfilled any of its economic projections, even the most basic, ridership.

And now you trot out some half-baked "they'll stay at downtown hotels if we build a subway to downtown.

Spend what, $300 million to support Paul Snyder's Hyatt?

Downtown is a 14.5 minute cab ride from the airport.

Here's a cheaper solution if you want to get people to opt for downtown hotels: Have UMTA pay for all cab rides for anyone who says they're staying at a downtown hotel. Even if it's not true. Just transport them.

[ForestBird]

Much as I like light rail / streetcars, an express bus service from the airport to downtown is something they can do NOW and for very little money. Currently, there are 9 (woo-hoo! a whole NINE) round-trips per day, with the last leaving the airport at 5:04pm. Too bad for the many flights which arrive in the evening, but I guess one could ride on the regular 24 Genesee, through crackland.

Rail or bus to the airport competes with the NFTA's very profitable business of airport parking, so we can't expect much change.

So, extend the subway? Well, a new route, perhaps through some areas where people might actually travel? Maybe. Downtown to the Upper West Side to the North Buffalo shopping area to Kenmore and then to the shopping areas of Sheridan/N.Falls Blvd .... that might work . It could still connect to the current subway, downtown.

[biker]

To me, our LRRT gave us the greatest example of gubmint waste in one stunning example: the Tonawanda Turnout.

The opening of the LRRT was delayed for two years and millions more were spent to create a "turnout" at the LaSalle station for the line to go to the Tonawandas.

Within ten years, the bridges carrying the existing rails to Tonawanda were torn down, making the turnout moot ("mute" in internetese).

[granpabob]

if they expand to the airport that would help people leave the area even faster
we have old railbeds that lead to most of our towns and neighborhoods. many of them connect via downtown terminals. if the metro mail just used what was once a great railroad system. it might be worth it. but if they tear up more of main street or any other street if is foolish

[BuffaloEMT14216]

Biker,

I agree with you about the high cost associated and delays with the Tonawanda Turnout. However, the Rail Bridges you are talking about were not part of the master plan. Those two bridges at Main Street, one Erie and one IRC/Conrail, were torn down where the entrance to LaSalle Park and Ride is now.
Yet, the entire railbed from LaSalle station to the City of Tonawanda was conveniently tore up last summer by the NFTA. The former Conrail bed had laid abandoned there for 30 years, but the NFTA decided now to rip'em up.
I have seen the 1974 LRRT Report that had showed the Metro system covering the Airport, Rich Stadium,UB North, Tonawanda, even Niagara Falls.
Now Buffalo did have a world class streetcar system in the early 1900's up until 1950. The IRC(the smart forerunner to the NFTA), had streetcar lines on every major roadway in Buffalo. Streets like Delaware, Elmwood, Broadway, Genesee, Fillmore, Kensington,Parkside, Grider, Ferry, Main, Clinton, South Park, Hertel, Kenmore, etc. The New York Central Beltline that still circles the city delivered passengers to every major neighborhood. The IRC even had high speed cars, that ran the former trackbed from LaSalle station to Niagara Falls, in turn running streetcar lines up there and the historic Great Gorge route.
Can you imagine? I have an IRC map in my possession from 1939 and it's amazing. The NFTA hitmen would love to burn it and take out anyone with knowledge of a "real" system, not the little train that could.
Cars shared roadways, horses did too back in the day, yet nowadays we need $500,000 studies to determine feasibility. Why can Toronto still do it fine, and they have a population of 3.5 million?
I had an old friend who believes that the NFTA enjoys the stranglehold and the power it's commissioner have over this community. I often thought he was crazy but you know alot of what he said is true.
They own all the waterfront lands, they operate the airports, they control our transportation and future.
I believe the NFTA should expand the Airport Corridor, a line to Ski Country(which has abandoned rail the entire way), a line to Niagara Falls. A line to the Falls would be easy, the trackbed is currently used, but only 6 times a day with Amtrak, other than that it's unused.
They should have kept the lines above ground, they already had trackbed in place on Main Street and every other main throughfare which all have since been ripped up due to the construction ongoing. Will the NFTA ever listen? No. Mr. Meckler and the boys don't care about prosperity. Besides, they are a New York State approved shadow government which means they can do whatever they want, with no overshadowing from the state that birthed them. Got to love NY!

[biker]

I was referring to the bridges over Starin, etc., downstream from the LaSalle station.

Nice history on the rest.

[WNYresident]

Spend what, $300 million to support Paul Snyder's Hyatt?

Downtown is a 14.5 minute cab ride from the airport.

Here's a cheaper solution if you want to get people to opt for downtown hotels: Have UMTA pay for all cab rides for anyone who says they're staying at a downtown hotel. Even if it's not true. Just transport them.

How much is a cab ride from the airport to a downtown hotel?

$300,000,000 / $20 (what ever a ride would be) = 15,000,000 trips.

If I was a tourist I would rather be dropped off right in front of where I'm staying so a cab ride makes more sense.

Anyone have an idea of the actual visitors we get a year into erie county that would have a need to stay downtown?

[biker]

Need to stay downtown. Some (nuts like me) usually try to stay in historically significant, renovated hotels.

BTW-I think we should be big tippers on these free cab rides; the cabbies need a break. So figger on $40.00 per.

That's only good for 7.5 million trips. Should last for 30 years.

[300miles]

You have some valid points on ROI for the airport extension, but you're also overlooking other benefits of it besides just linking the airport to downtown.

It could also link the city to the Galleria and provide more transportation options to the East Side for shopping and jobs and business investment.

Could it also provide a hub from Amtrack station to Metro? (something they cancelled in the BassPro project downtown)

The same route could utilize the Central Terminal, giving it at least a chance in hell for some re-use possibilities. If it were right on the metro, it may be more attractive as an investment.

I'm not entirely sold on the Airport extension yet. But I think completing the original plan to UB North is a no-brainer. They have thousands of students stranded in the Amherst dormitories with no cars and no real nightlife options. If they had an easy link via metro to get to South campus and downtown, they would use it, guarenteed. It's a captive audience.

[crlachepinochet]

Getting from North Campus to downtown isn't really that hard... there's a bus between campuses that lets you off right at South Campus Station. I like the idea of connecting the Galleria, the airport, Central Terminal, etc. It'd be neat to make the airport line and then complete the loop through Williamsville. The Snooze actually did a poll a while ago and showed that people in Amherst would support it.

[300miles]

Yeah, when I was there (a while ago) they had a good bus service between the campuses. At that time I had equal number of classes on South and North campus. Now most undergrads have all their classes on North campus only, so I'm curious if the bus schedule is less frequest now.

But even with a good bus service... you could easily get stuck trying to get home because you missed the last bus or missed the last train. They're 2 independent systems that don't (or didn't at the time) mesh their shedules.

Having one single system with a train that goes all the way from campus to campus to downtown would greatly simplify things and make it more usable.

[biker]

Having one single system with a train that goes all the way from campus to campus to downtown would greatly simplify things and make it more usable.

And you think that'd be worth, say, $400 million and ripping up residential neighborhoods along the Grover Cleveland Highway?

Seriously.