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Thread: New staff/Patronage

  1. #1
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    New staff/Patronage

    Patronage has no "Political Boundaries."
    Management Staff replacement is quite a different animal all together ,
    or should be !

    I think , what started as a new admin bringing in those with the experience to assist in directing and forging new plans and improvements - some how was perverted . With the changing of a post like County Exec - new and trusted staff is a "Political necessity" - not only to bring a shared concept - but also to defend ones self against "Political Sabotage."

    In Unionized "Public Service Delivery" there is always the "Party" mindset. The Party faithful are there to protect those who put them there . They are less likely to accept or want change of any sort . Their work ethic is not that of a true "Worker" , as in private industry . A Unionized worker in private industry is more apt to see and understand work place changes for the overall good and continued growth of "Our Company."

    Patronage "Jobs" are just that - Patronage - its people being hired for Political reasons - Party Favors - be it family members , relatives or just plain Party Loyal . Usually the only true skills they bring to their new job is loyalty to the Party that got them there position . They need to be exposed and relieved . Performance based work assessments can and should be used !

    Bringing in new management staff shouldn't be looked at as "Patronage" - its a tool of the "New Administration" - used to help outline , focus and implement change .

    Patronage is the "Political Grease" that feeds the Party Bosses. That needs to end . Those who rely on it , are beholding to the Party not the Community they serve.

    Unions were formed to help "Protect Workers rights" - all to often now they have become nothing more than "Political PACS"(Political Action Committees) - they are Party driven and provide manpower and cash to those of "Like Mind." Politicians used to support Union workers - now Union workers are being forced to support selected Politicians .

    Change is needed - but first the tax payer , voters and workers must understand the reasons for that change . The "Public Servants" must realize who they serve , before they can regain their true identity as "Public Servants."
    __________________
    Its not a fault of the Union - its the fault of those within society that say , "Thats the way it works" - we feed that mindset every time we donate or blindly support a Party or system that has led us to where we are today .


    Just my opinion !

    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  2. #2
    OldTymeRevival
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4248
    Patronage has no "Political Boundaries."
    Management Staff replacement is quite a different animal all together ,
    or should be !

    I think , what started as a new admin bringing in those with the experience to assist in directing and forging new plans and improvements - some how was perverted . With the changing of a post like County Exec - new and trusted staff is a "Political necessity" - not only to bring a shared concept - but also to defend ones self against "Political Sabotage."

    In Unionized "Public Service Delivery" there is always the "Party" mindset. The Party faithful are there to protect those who put them there . They are less likely to accept or want change of any sort . Their work ethic is not that of a true "Worker" , as in private industry . A Unionized worker in private industry is more apt to see and understand work place changes for the overall good and continued growth of "Our Company."

    Patronage "Jobs" are just that - Patronage - its people being hired for Political reasons - Party Favors - be it family members , relatives or just plain Party Loyal . Usually the only true skills they bring to their new job is loyalty to the Party that got them there position . They need to be exposed and relieved . Performance based work assessments can and should be used !

    Bringing in new management staff shouldn't be looked at as "Patronage" - its a tool of the "New Administration" - used to help outline , focus and implement change .

    Patronage is the "Political Grease" that feeds the Party Bosses. That needs to end . Those who rely on it , are beholding to the Party not the Community they serve.

    Unions were formed to help "Protect Workers rights" - all to often now they have become nothing more than "Political PACS"(Political Action Committees) - they are Party driven and provide manpower and cash to those of "Like Mind." Politicians used to support Union workers - now Union workers are being forced to support selected Politicians .

    Change is needed - but first the tax payer , voters and workers must understand the reasons for that change . The "Public Servants" must realize who they serve , before they can regain their true identity as "Public Servants."
    __________________
    Its not a fault of the Union - its the fault of those within society that say , "Thats the way it works" - we feed that mindset every time we donate or blindly support a Party or system that has led us to where we are today .


    Just my opinion !

    Well said- and I hope people take the time to read your entire post and think about it before they tear it apart. You are certainly very insightful!

  3. #3
    Member citymouse's Avatar
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    Full of holes.
    Patronage is appointed pure and simple. Public sector union jobs are no different than private sector in the sense that the unions bargin for the protection and rights of the workers and to bargin collectivley for equalization of pay, overtime and benefits. The difference comes because public sector labor leaders are bargaining with politicians or their agents rather than ceo's.
    Actually, unions protect workers from patronage. If every time administration changes the workforce changed there would be no continuity, no expierienced based work force. That is what the civil service system was created to protect, as well as the unions.
    Given thier way the elected would be hiring and fireing at wim, based on politics. The notion that public sector unions are just party driven PAC's is, in theory as well as practice, false. Unions, no more than any other political lobby (corporate or otherwise), promote candidates that are philosopically allied to them undistictive of party lines. True, this is heavily tilted toward the Democrats, but not always. Particularly in the New York Senate and Assembly.
    Public sector unions are more politically active because of the nature of the managment they have to deal with. Yet they lobby no more than any private corporation, particularly utility and energy companies.
    Considering we work for the politicans (as agents for the taxpayer), are paid by the politicans (as agent for the taxpayer) and our job performance is used as a yard stick as to how the politicans are judged on a day to day basis, we are forced more into the political spotlight.
    "If you want to know what God thinks of money just look at the people he gave it to."

    By the way, what happened to biker? I miss the old coot.

  4. #4
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    Talking Your actually making my point clearer - Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by citymouse
    Full of holes.
    Patronage is appointed pure and simple. Public sector union jobs are no different than private sector in the sense that the unions bargin for the protection and rights of the workers and to bargin collectivley for equalization of pay, overtime and benefits. The difference comes because public sector labor leaders are bargaining with politicians or their agents rather than CEO. Usually the "Politicians they give Campaign Money to ! Do the private sector Unions donate to the CEO'S they negotiate with ?

    Actually, unions protect workers from patronage. (In the private sector they do - but in the tax payer services area - not true - the Tax Payer Funded Unions do not restrict who's hired .They turn their heads to "Appointees and Provisional hires" - those hired now and "Might" take a test later . Why do you think most "Patronage" jobs are so-called "Management?"


    If every time administration changes the workforce changed there would be no continuity, no experienced based work force. That is what the civil service system was created to protect, as well as the unions.
    Given their way the elected would be hiring and fireing at wim, based on politics. The notion that public sector unions are just party driven PAC's is, in theory as well as practice, false.(How much has your Union PAC Fund donated in the Last twelve months?)

    Unions, no more than any other political lobby (corporate or otherwise), promote candidates that are philosopically allied to them undistictive of party lines. True, this is heavily tilted toward the Democrats, but not always. Particularly in the New York Senate and Assembly.

    Public sector unions are more politically active because of the nature of the managment they have to deal with. Yet they lobby no more than any private corporation, particularly utility and energy companies.

    Considering we work for the politicans (as agents for the taxpayer) your supposed to be working for the taxpayer = "Public Services"),

    We are paid by the politicans (as agent for the taxpayer) again the tax payers pay you - not Politicians !) and our job performance is used as a yard stick as to how the politicans are judged on a day to day basis, we are forced more into the political spotlight. If your City Run Department and building you work in is a Representation of what "Politicians" have done - what a sad commentary that is - look around you !
    There in lies the problems - you believe you work for the "Politicians." You believe Politics supports you as a worker . You allow , encourage and fund this whole "Dollars for Political Favors scheme."

    Would you ever invest in a pyramid scheme - you know the kind where your lucky enough to be let in at the bottom , and the more people you get to invest after you , the faster you get to the top and collect your share ?

    Well - you are in one - except , you can keep sending your money(contributions) all you want and you'll still be where you are today ! The more you support the "Dollars for Favors" Politics , the longer your future and the futures of our children will be controlled by those at the top of that pyramid .

    If your City Run Department and building you work in is a Representation of what "Politicians" have done - what a sad commentary that is - look around you !

    Politicians create nothing - they just redistribute what they take from taxpayers !



    0
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4248
    There in lies the problems - you believe you work for the "Politicians." You believe Politics supports you as a worker . You allow , encourage and fund this whole "Dollars for Political Favors scheme."

    Would you ever invest in a pyramid scheme - you know the kind where your lucky enough to be let in at the bottom , and the more people you get to invest after you , the faster you get to the top and collect your share ?

    Well - you are in one - except , you can keep sending your money(contributions) all you want and you'll still be where you are today ! The more you support the "Dollars for Favors" Politics , the longer your future and the futures of our children will be controlled by those at the top of that pyramid .

    If your City Run Department and building you work in is a Representation of what "Politicians" have done - what a sad commentary that is - look around you !

    Politicians create nothing - they just redistribute what they take from taxpayers !



    0
    So what do you propose we do?

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    Could you clarify

    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito
    So what do you propose we do?
    What are you asking ? Was that directed at getting a response from me or just anyone? What aspect of my opinion are you concerned with ?

    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  7. #7
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito
    So what do you propose we do?
    You elect people who focus on the community not thier own upward movement threw the "system".

    I also beleive as soon as a elected official wants to run for a high office they must resign from thier current office. If you were elected to be Clerk for 4 years you put in 4 years. You don't start campaigning 2 years later for something higher above that. makes sense?

  8. #8
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito
    So what do you propose we do?
    For starters you dump Lenny Lenihan, Tony Orsini, Ralph Lorigo and who ever runs the concervatives. For now we take the word of Jim D from the republicans that he put someone forward who will represent us, the community. We'll see how Chris is after the 1st year and decid about Jim.

    You need people who pick the people based on how good they are for office not who can get the most jobs or perks. They tend to forget who they are working for it seems in WNY.

  9. #9
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident
    For starters you dump Lenny Lenihan, Tony Orsini, Ralph Lorigo and who ever runs the concervatives. For now we take the word of Jim D from the republicans that he put someone forward who will represent us, the community. We'll see how Chris is after the 1st year and decid about Jim.

    You need people who pick the people based on how good they are for office not who can get the most jobs or perks. They tend to forget who they are working for it seems in WNY.
    No, that's not "WNY", it's Erie County. You've got powerful political machines in Erie County and lots of patronage jobs that give politicians incentives to be career pols rather than part-time politicians. If patronage jobs were mostly eliminated -- either making them civil services positions or doing away with them totally if they are just make-work positions for some well-connected individuals -- there would be less much incentive for party "machines". In the surrounding counties where there's so much less patronage, the party "machines" aren't all that strong because there's not that much to gained by belonging to one.

  10. #10
    Member citymouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4248
    There in lies the problems - you believe you work for the "Politicians." You believe Politics supports you as a worker . You allow , encourage and fund this whole "Dollars for Political Favors scheme."

    Would you ever invest in a pyramid scheme - you know the kind where your lucky enough to be let in at the bottom , and the more people you get to invest after you , the faster you get to the top and collect your share ?

    Well - you are in one - except , you can keep sending your money(contributions) all you want and you'll still be where you are today ! The more you support the "Dollars for Favors" Politics , the longer your future and the futures of our children will be controlled by those at the top of that pyramid .

    If your City Run Department and building you work in is a Representation of what "Politicians" have done - what a sad commentary that is - look around you !

    Politicians create nothing - they just redistribute what they take from taxpayers !



    0

    If you read my post you would know that I said I work for politicians as agents for the taxpayer.
    So what do you think? Because the Republicans have kept county hall it's a new day?
    You know nothing about the dealings of public sector unions. You make mob mentality judgment calls and twist the facts.
    Private sector unions make many political contributions and lobby as much as public sector. To suggest they don't is to walk with your head up your anus. Auto workers, trade unions, utility company unions, all of them.
    But not near as much as corporate lobbyists. I think I have read where the business and industrial pac and lobbyists out spend labor dollars two hundred to one.
    Your boy Collins has to step up and lead. And he has to lead politically. Other wise he is doomed to failure.
    "If you want to know what God thinks of money just look at the people he gave it to."

    By the way, what happened to biker? I miss the old coot.

  11. #11
    Member citymouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident
    You elect people who focus on the community not thier own upward movement threw the "system".

    I also beleive as soon as a elected official wants to run for a high office they must resign from thier current office. If you were elected to be Clerk for 4 years you put in 4 years. You don't start campaigning 2 years later for something higher above that. makes sense?
    That animal dosen't exist anymore. When Mr. Smith went to Washington he was the last one on the train.
    "If you want to know what God thinks of money just look at the people he gave it to."

    By the way, what happened to biker? I miss the old coot.

  12. #12
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by citymouse
    That animal dosen't exist anymore. When Mr. Smith went to Washington he was the last one on the train.
    Yes they do. Maybe they don't exist in the local political parties but they do exist in the community.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident
    For now we take the word of Jim D from the republicans that he put someone forward who will represent us, the community. We'll see how Chris is after the 1st year and decid about Jim.
    You think he's any different? He is a party chairman. If he dosen't come up with patronage somewhere for somebody, he's history.
    He hit a note with his message,true. But it's still politics. Word is that after the way he engineered the Collins campaign he is a rising star on the State Republican scene.
    For getting a underdog elected with a smart well presented campaign. Not for backing a well qualified candidate. It's just politics as usual.
    Look beyond Collins and see who get the bulk of the rank and file patronage positions. The director, assistant director, and assistant to the assitant director. There might be some splash of bringing in some corporate world people in high level positions, that reamains to be seen. But it's the non union meat and potato jobs that Jim D., through Collins, will provide to his Republican rank and file.
    If he put's adds in the paper for people in everyday jobs I'll eat my words. If not, than it's same ol' same ol'.
    "If you want to know what God thinks of money just look at the people he gave it to."

    By the way, what happened to biker? I miss the old coot.

  14. #14
    Member citymouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident
    Yes they do. Maybe they don't exist in the local political parties but they do exist in the community.
    Not any that are electible.
    "If you want to know what God thinks of money just look at the people he gave it to."

    By the way, what happened to biker? I miss the old coot.

  15. #15
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by citymouse
    Not any that are electible.
    Collins did very well. It's not that most are not electible, it's that the system is slanted towards the encumbants.

    You know what I find very odd.. That the government get's election day off for the most part. Why is that?

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