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Thread: In Ron Paul Coins, Federal Agents Don't Trust

  1. #1
    Member gonerail's Avatar
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    Question In Ron Paul Coins, Federal Agents Don't Trust

    This is all so laughable ! I wonder what part the White House played in the raid even though not realizing the Pandora's box they would open up ?? HooRay for the rights of the People !! Go Ron Paul !!

    As if Ron Paul's supporters needed any more motivation to storm the battlements and wreak havoc on the Republican presidential primary, now comes this: the feds are trying to take away their money.

    Federal agents on Wednesday raided the Evansville, Indiana headquarters of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Codes (NORFED), an organization of "sound money" advocates that for the past decade has been selling what it calls Liberty Dollars, a private currency it says is backed by silver and gold stored in Idaho, with a total of more than $20 million in circulation, according to the group.

    NORFED officials said yesterday that the raid occurred just as they were preparing to mail out the first batch of about 60,000 "Ron Paul Dollars," copper coins sold for $1 and decorated with the craggy visage of Paul, the libertarian Texas congressman, Iraq war opponent and sound-money advocate who has sparked a surprisingly vigorous insurgent campaign for the GOP nomination. The group says that it in recent months it already shipped out about 10,000 in silver Ron Paul dollars that sold for $20.

    Bernard von NotHaus, NORFED's founder and executive director, said in an interview from his home in Miami Friday night that his employees in Evansville had received the copper dollars late last week and managed to mail out only about 3,500 of them so far. After a six-hour raid, he said, the agents left with the rest of the coins, which weighed about two tons total, as well as smaller amounts of silver Ron Paul dollars, gold Ron Paul dollars that sell for $1,000 and platinum Ron Paul dollars that sell for $2,000. There was a separate raid, NotHaus said, of Sunshine Mint in Coer D'Alene, Idaho, a company that prints the organization's coins, where von NotHaus said agents seized the huge pallets of silver and gold worth more than $1 million that the organization says back the paper certificates issued to its customers.

    "They took everything, all of the computers, everything but the desks and chairs," said von NotHaus, who says he served 25 years as the mintmaster for the Royal Hawaiian Mint. "The federal government really is afraid."

    Much more at: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-t...l?hpid=topnews

    Read the comments section too.
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  2. #2
    Member run4it's Avatar
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    So if there is a finite amount of gold and silver stored in Idaho, and this "currency" has been continuously coined for over a decade, by definition they are causing inflation, the very thing they say their "hard-backed" currency is supposed to guard against.

    By the way, was the guy's last name taken straight out of a Mel Brooks' movie? "Von Nothaus"?

    .....stupid idiots....
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

  3. #3
    Member mikewrona's Avatar
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    Is the Ron Paul going to be the only kind of dollar, or, can anyone get into the market.

    I think a Yogi Berra dollar would be fun. We could use his quotes: i.e. "We may be lost, but we are making good time."

  4. #4
    Member DelawareDistrict's Avatar
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    The Ron Paul dollar was a recent design, there have been others over the past decade.
    The path is clear
    Though no eyes can see
    The course laid down long before.
    And so with gods and men
    The sheep remain inside their pen,
    Though many times they've seen the way to leave.

  5. #5
    Member DelawareDistrict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run4it
    So if there is a finite amount of gold and silver stored in Idaho, and this "currency" has been continuously coined for over a decade, by definition they are causing inflation, the very thing they say their "hard-backed" currency is supposed to guard against.

    By the way, was the guy's last name taken straight out of a Mel Brooks' movie? "Von Nothaus"?

    .....stupid idiots....
    Wrong! The amount of silver backing the paper Liberty Dollars has kept pace with the amount of dollars printed. They do not follow the policies of printing money with no backing like the Federal Reserve does while causing price inflation and currency deflation.
    The path is clear
    Though no eyes can see
    The course laid down long before.
    And so with gods and men
    The sheep remain inside their pen,
    Though many times they've seen the way to leave.

  6. #6
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    For those who don't know what a liberty dollar is:


    liberty dollar coin



    liberty dollar coin



    liberty dollar coin

  7. #7
    Member run4it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelawareDistrict
    Wrong! The amount of silver backing the paper Liberty Dollars has kept pace with the amount of dollars printed. They do not follow the policies of printing money with no backing like the Federal Reserve does while causing price inflation and currency deflation.
    Honestly, I don't buy it. Who is it that paid regular (legal) currency to amass all this metal? Who is holding it? Who has bought more and more of it.

    I think you're full of poop...wouldn't be the full time you pulled one out of your rearage to try and defend your Liberwhackians.
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

  8. #8
    Member run4it's Avatar
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    Another point: Not only does Congress have the power to coin money and set value, it also has the right to regulate interstate commerce. If this "vault" of money is being purchased in Idaho and it's representative script is being made in Indiana, and as DD has said, has been used in New York, that's certainly interstate commerce. i.e. controllable by Congress.

    Either way, the 'alternate currency' business is, if not flat out unconstitutional, at least subject to Congressional regulation.
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

  9. #9
    Member DelawareDistrict's Avatar
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    What you call interstate commerce, subject to regulation, is limiting the freedom of individuals to trade private property freely amongst themselves. I don't understand why you would suggest that this is a scam and people really haven't purchased Liberty Dollars. I personally know more than a dozen people who possess and/or trade them for goods and services. It is only the people who don't understand the worthlessness of the U.S. currency, or are trying to hide the facts, that have a problem with them.

    BTW, my numbered, limited edition $20 Ron Paul Liberty dollar has been selling on ebay for amounts up to nearly $500 (U.S. currency) the past couple of days due to the governments actions. I suppose you would think I should be arrested if I decide to sell mine.
    The path is clear
    Though no eyes can see
    The course laid down long before.
    And so with gods and men
    The sheep remain inside their pen,
    Though many times they've seen the way to leave.

  10. #10
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    ROTFLMAO!

    More Wackos for Ron Paul heard from!!! If these "Ron Paul"s were confiscated by the Feds, it seems that somebody was trying to pass them off as legal tender, which they aren't. Only the US government mint can produce any kind of paper or coin for legal tender.

    I believe that the Liberty Dollars and other coins like this are intended for collecting and not for trying to buy beer at the local Wilson Farms.

  11. #11
    Member DelawareDistrict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    ROTFLMAO!

    More Wackos for Ron Paul heard from!!! If these "Ron Paul"s were confiscated by the Feds, it seems that somebody was trying to pass them off as legal tender, which they aren't. Only the US government mint can produce any kind of paper or coin for legal tender.

    I believe that the Liberty Dollars and other coins like this are intended for collecting and not for trying to buy beer at the local Wilson Farms.
    In response to your hypothetical situation, wouldn't the person trying to pass the liberty dollars as legal tender be committing the crime, not the people who are voluntarily trading them?
    The path is clear
    Though no eyes can see
    The course laid down long before.
    And so with gods and men
    The sheep remain inside their pen,
    Though many times they've seen the way to leave.

  12. #12
    Member DelawareDistrict's Avatar
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    Point of Interest: This Ron Paul wacko is placing a full page ad in Wednesday's USA Today for Ron Paul.
    Lawrence W. Lepard

    Managing General Partner

    Larry joined Geocapital as a General Partner in 1992. Prior to joining the firm, Larry was a Partner at Summit Ventures and was responsible for opening Summit's West Coast office. He also served as Chief Financial Officer of Calay Systems and as an Investment Associate at Continental Illinois Venture Corporation, a subsidiary of Continental Illinois Bank & Trust. Larry began his business career as a Financial Analyst with the Mergers and Acquisitions group at Smith Barney, Harris Upham & Co. He has served on the Boards of Directors of numerous public and private information technology based firms and is presently a Director of several privately held companies. Larry received a B.A. with Honors in Economics from Colgate University and an M.B.A. with Distinction from Harvard Business School.
    The path is clear
    Though no eyes can see
    The course laid down long before.
    And so with gods and men
    The sheep remain inside their pen,
    Though many times they've seen the way to leave.

  13. #13
    Member Slim.fsp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    ROTFLMAO!

    More Wackos for Ron Paul heard from!!! If these "Ron Paul"s were confiscated by the Feds, it seems that somebody was trying to pass them off as legal tender, which they aren't. Only the US government mint can produce any kind of paper or coin for legal tender.

    I believe that the Liberty Dollars and other coins like this are intended for collecting and not for trying to buy beer at the local Wilson Farms.
    The Liberty dollar is a alternative currency and is NOT legal tender. The intention of the liberty dollar is not for collecting it was created for an alternative to the forced legal tender.

    Your statement that "Only the US government mint can produce any kind of paper or coin for legal tender." is partially correct. The US mint does create coins but the Federal Reserve creates the paper notes known as Federal Reserve Notes [FRN's]. FRN's are debt notes which means they represent a portion of debt that the US government owes, Liberty dollars (paper and digital) are warehouse receipts which means it is an asset and before the government goons took the gold and silver from the vault you were able to take that receipt to the vault and exchange it for the metal that was backing it. Since the Liberty dollars were warehouse receipts the organization known as NORFED could not print a receipt unless there was metal in the vault to cover that receipt.

    If you are calling people who think that a currency should have a backing wacko's then you are calling the founding fathers wacko because they personally saw what happens when a currency does not have any backing to it. If you do not remember maybe you might want to look up the Continental Dollar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Dollar.
    If you walk around in a forest with your eyes closed you will eventually walk in to a tree.

    2 + 2 = 5

    Jesus died for your sins I do it for your mere entertainment dollar (Doug Stanhope)

  14. #14
    Member mikewrona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim.fsp
    The Liberty dollar is a alternative currency and is NOT legal tender. The intention of the liberty dollar is not for collecting it was created for an alternative to the forced legal tender.

    Your statement that "Only the US government mint can produce any kind of paper or coin for legal tender." is partially correct. The US mint does create coins but the Federal Reserve creates the paper notes known as Federal Reserve Notes [FRN's]. FRN's are debt notes which means they represent a portion of debt that the US government owes, Liberty dollars (paper and digital) are warehouse receipts which means it is an asset and before the government goons took the gold and silver from the vault you were able to take that receipt to the vault and exchange it for the metal that was backing it. Since the Liberty dollars were warehouse receipts the organization known as NORFED could not print a receipt unless there was metal in the vault to cover that receipt.

    If you are calling people who think that a currency should have a backing wacko's then you are calling the founding fathers wacko because they personally saw what happens when a currency does not have any backing to it. If you do not remember maybe you might want to look up the Continental Dollar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Dollar.

    How much profit does NORFED and it's investors, if their are any, make as a result of issuing these coins?

    I'd venture to guess the motive is profit rather than altruism.

  15. #15
    Member run4it's Avatar
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    Colonial monetary systems are the EXACT reason the founders gave Congress the authority to coin money AND SET IT'S VALUE (if the value is automatically determined by it's relation to some metal, then why would Congress need authority to set its value?) The problem was that too many entities were printing their own money, and it was hampering trade between states. THAT'S WHY THE FEDERAL CONGRESS WAS VESTED WITH THAT POWER!!!

    Why is it that those who invoke the "founding fathers" the most often understand them the least?
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

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