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Thread: Kerry: Fit for Command

  1. #1
    Member MOPEDER's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Kerry: Fit for Command

    To call Senator John Kerry a traitor for opposing the Vietnam war maligns millions of Americans who protested the Vietnam war in the 1960s-70s. Not only that, but it directly contradicts the FBI's own files on John Kerry's anti-war activities following his distinguished service in the U.S. Navy in Vietnam. The FBI files, which were recently released, describe Kerry as a "voice of moderation" in the anti-war movement. This was the FBI of J. Edgar Hoover, the same FBI that infiltrated anti-war groups and pushed them toward militancy, and their conclusion was that Kerry was a "moderate. Not a flag-burning Communist who went to North Vietnam to pledge his allegiance to the Communists. Instead, Kerry was a very patriotic American who went before Congress and testified that the war was a lost cause, and that Americans were dying everyday for a war that two presidents had seen as not winnable. The war also happened to have been unjustified and unjust. The U.S.A. obliterated over a million Vietnamese in order that the "dominoes" of Cambodia and Laos would not fall to the International Communist Conspiracy. President Dwight "Ike" Eisenhower announced that free and direct elections would be held in Vietnam in 1956. Those elections never took place, but within a generation, almost two million Vietnamese, untold thousands of Laotians, and hundreds of thousands of Cambodians would be dead, alongside 58,000 American soldiers. So John Kerry is a traitor for fighting bravely and admirably for his country, while Bush is an American hero for joining the National Guard to avoid being sent to Vietnam and also shirking his duty while in that service. Only a warped logic could produce that view. G W Bush recently said that "Kerry isn't fit to be "Commander in Chief"." Considering the fact that Kerry knows what war is like and also how terrible war is from having served our country in Vietnam, I think that makes him more fit than Bush to be "Commander in Chief".
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    Arrow Kerry wasn't saying that he committed atrocities

    Come on now. You know as well as I do, that Kerry isn't a war criminal. People are just so desperate that they're taking what he said out of context, and trying to twist his words to where people will be deceived into thinking that he committed atrocities. Kerry was trying to explain the difference between a soldier that does his duty and a soldier that committed atrocities. He wasn't admitting to, or saying that he took part in those crimes. He was basically saying he served in Vietnam, and did what soldiers do, and follow the orders he was given.
    If he had been ordered to chop peoples heads or arms off, push them in a ditch, pour gas on them and set them on fire, or shoot people he knew were unarmed, he wouldn't do that. He was trying to convey from his perspective about how terrible war is, and that war itself is an "atrocity."
    I'll admit that he didn't no such a great job explaining this subject. He did it in an intellectual way, that some people just couldn't understand. He should have said it in a clearer, simpler way.
    Now as far as the medals that he said he threw over the White House fence during the days of the Vietnam war protests. He said he threw 6,7, or 8 medals over the fence. Evidently he wasn't referring to his Purple Hearts, his Bronze Star, or even his Silver Star (that's only five).
    He was actually talking about his incidental medals. When you're in the service, you're awarded different medals. You may get a medal for good conduct, rank, years of service, leadership, what country you served in, etc. The medals Kerry threw over the White House fence were these incidental medals, not his higher ones. When asked if he still has his Purple Hearts and other higher medals, he said I still have them somewhere.



    "I think John Kerry's service in Vietnam was admirable" ~ G W Bush
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    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    THe democrates picked the wrong person from thier click to run for president in my opinion. Just look back over his life long job as a politican at his voting record. Is that really want you want?

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    YES!!!

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    U.S. Atrocities during Vietnam War

    John Kerry was telling the truth when he testified that acts of atrocity were committed by U.S. troops in Vietnam. Here are excerpts from more books, that document the reality of atrocities committed by U.S. troops during the Vietnam War.

    Vietnam: A History
    Author: Stanley Karnow
    The Viking Press
    "Excerpts" from Vietnam: A History
    (pg:24) Morale also deteriorated folliwing revelations of a massacre in which a U.S. infantry company slaughtered more than three hundred Vietnamese inhabitants of Mylai village in cold blood- an episode that prompted GI's to assume that their commanders were covering up other atrocities.
    (Pgs:600-601) And the U.S. army indicted Lieutenant William Calley and Sergeant David Mitchell for the massacre of South Vietnamese civilians at Mylai ... .

    Charlie Company
    Authors: Peter Goldman and Tony Fuller
    William Morrow and Company
    "Excerpts" from : Charlie Company
    (pg:9) ... and the scandal late in 1969 over the massacre of 347 Vietnamese noncombatants in a hamlet called My Lai. The My Lai atrocity was an aberration in the war, so far as it is known, a paroxysm of murderous violence by a grunt company drunk on blood and war-weariness. ... and the bodies of old men, women and children rotting in a ditch in My Lai had a shattering effect on America's image of itself as invincible on the one hand, and humane on the other.
    (pg:125) Charlie Company was still in Vietnam when the scandal broke in ... 1969, reading about it a few of the men thought about those smiles and the hatred they sometimes concealed and felt a pang of empathy for William Calley, the Lieutenant accused of having presided over the bloodletting. ... . There were no My Lais in Charlie Company's war, but there was no presumption of the innocence of civilians either- ... . In a total war, even the little kid running at you yelling, "Candy, GI!" might be carrying a live hand grenade, and if you saw it in time, J.C.Wilson remembered, you shot him.

    The Vietnam War: Opposing Viewpoints
    Author: William Dudley
    Greenhaven Press, Inc.
    "Excerpts" from : The Vietnam War: Opposing Viewpoints
    (pg:225) We saw Vietnam ravaged equalled by American bombs and search and destroy missions, ... and yet we listened while this country tried to blame all of the havoc on the Viet Cong. We rationalized destroying villages in order to save them. We saw America lose her sense of morality as she accepted very coolly a My Lai and refused to give up the image of American soldiers who hand out chocolate bars and chewing gum. ... . Someone has to die so that President Nixon won't be, and these are his words, "the first President to lose a war."


    QUOTE
    "Well, the truth is the truth. The truth has a force of its own. I'm just going out there and telling the truth." ~ Senator John F. Kerry (May 28, 2004)

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    Thumbs down American Atrocities in Vietnam

    People have been saying that John Kerry had lied when he testified regarding atrocities. He witnessed these atrocities first hand when he served in Vietnam, and other veterans told him of some of the atrcocities they had seen. The Swift Boat Vets for truth had been attacking Kerry, saying that he didn't deserve his medals. Now, they're falsely attacking him in an ad claiming that he admitted to commiting atrocities. They're only using the part where Kerry said" yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities" out of context, and omitting the rest of Kerry's explaination. If you read Kerry's statement in it's entirety, you will realize that Kerry wasn't admitting to war crimes. He was trying to convey the difference between a soldier that does his duty, and a soldier that committed atrocities. To summarize what Kerry said, he was basically saying that war itself is an "atrocity." The only real reason that the Swift Boat Vets for Truth are upset with him, is because he brought the reality of American atrocities to the nation's attention.

    Here are John Kerry exact words, that are being misrepresented to the public by Swift Boat Vets fOR Truth in an attempt to smear him:

    There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.

    -- John Kerry, on NBC's "Meet the Press" April 18, 1971

    American Atrocities in Vietnam

    Tour of Duty
    Author: Douglas Brinkley
    William Morrow (Harper Collins Publishers)
    "Excerpts" from: Tour of Duty
    (pg:8-9) What quickly became clear was that Kerry was accusing the U.S. government of war crimes, as ordained through such policies as free fire zones, harassment-and-interdiction fire, search-and-destroy missions, carpet bombings, and the torture and execution of prisoners. He scorned the rationale that one had to destroy a village in order to save it ... . "we saw America lose her sense of morality as she accepted very coolly a My Lai, and refused to give up the image of American soldiers who hand out chocolate bars and chewing gum," Kerry lamented to his elders. "We learned the meaning of free fire zones, shooting anything that moves, and we watched while America placed cheapness on the lives of Orientals." Thus the Navy man raised the grim specter of atrocities committed by Americans in Vietnam. He referred to the "winter soldier investigation" ... . Other veterans, in gory detail, had told gruesome stories of sadistically torturing and raping Vietnamese women. Burning villages and machine-gunning peasants who were thought to be Viet Cong had become part of U.S. policy. Kerry was placing the blame on the U.S. government for instituting such immoral policies. Now he added veterans across the nation were coming forward to confess to war crimes. That winter in Detroit, decorated veterans had "told stories at times that they had raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in a fashion reminiscient of Gengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam, in addition to the normal ravage of war."
    (pg:270) ... civilian deaths committed in Vietnam by U.S. soldiers, particularly the My Lai incident and the Thanh Phong incident. And while Bob Kerrey came under fire in 2001, soon after he left the U.S. Senate, from the New York Times, The Nation, CBS's 60 Minutes for his role in a Navy SEAL unit's alleged joy-torching of the village of Thanh Phong, no such attention has been paid to the other side of the story of what American servicemen did in South Vietnam, such as the rescue of forty-two civilian detainees from starvation by Lieutenant John Kerry and his crew.
    (pg:440) ... in April 2001, when Gregory L. Vistica, an investigative reporter for the New York Times, ... alleging that Bob Kerrey had led his Navy SEAL unit to kill thirteen unarmed civilians in the village of Thanh Phong on the night of February 25, 1969. Senators Kerry, Cleland, and Chuck Hagel penned a letter published in the Washington Post that read in part: "Bob Kerrey's personal and difficult disclosure last week demonstrates the courage we all have known in him for years. It aslso reveals the real guilt and pain that persists among combat veterans of all war, and particularly Vietnam." "People that criticized Bob just didn't understand the realities of Vietnam," Kerry declared.

    Quote:
    "Senator Kerry should be proud of his war record," "No, I don't think he lied" ~ George W. Bush (Aug 26, 2004)

    Vote JOHN KERRY for President in 2004, for A Better America!!
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    How ironic that the people most dedicated to seeing Kerry elected are the same people who continue to bring up the swift boat ads even as the rest of the country wants the campaigns to move on and talk about issues that really matter.

    You want to debate the economy, national security, foreign policy? Go right ahead and do so, but please, let's keep debating what John Kerry did or didn't do for four months in Southeast Asia 30 years ago... because that's obviously what everyone's concerned about.
    It is no less certain than it is important... that the larger the society, provided it lie within a practical sphere, the more duly capable it will be of self-government.
    ~Federalist 51~

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    Member MOPEDER's Avatar
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    Thumbs down More 'mumbo-jumbo'

    Senator Kerry after coming back home from serving our country in
    Vietnam, began protesting our being there. The thought of most
    protestors was that we should leave Vietnam. Unfortunately, we didn't
    do that and tens of thousands more U.S. soldiers were killed as a
    result of the continuation of that tragic war.

    I believe that what John Kerry did was right and honorable. He was
    doing his patriotic duty by trying to prevent the deaths of more
    American's from a war that was seen as unwinnable. But Dick Nixon
    didn't want to be the first U.S. President to lose a war. Ironically
    he became the first President in U.S. history to lose a war, when we
    lost in Vietnam.

    I haven't heard yet that G W Bush has any plan. Whatever the plan,
    all he says it is not like Kerry's. Instead of talking about his plan
    he chose to spout more 'mumbo-jumbo' rhetoric to attack Kerry by
    calling him a lifelong liberal, etc.

    Maybe Bush's plan is similar to his failed policies of the past four
    years. I'm fairly certain it will be 'more of same' from Bush, if
    unfortunately for our country he is re-elected. Do you really expect
    anything new from him?

    Quote:
    "He regrettably rushed us into war in Iraq and pushed alliances away and as a result America ... is not as safe as we ought to be." ~
    Sen. John Kerry (0ct-13-2004)


    Quote:
    "No war is glorious, it's a tragedy. It's even more of a tragedy especially when people are being killed unnecessarily, as a result of the greedy, power-hungry agenda of their governments" ~ MOPEDER

  9. #9
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Just curious.. What was the point of Vietnam? I mean the main reason they went to war?

  10. #10
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    Red face wnyresident from a NC RESIDENT

    The U.S. went to war in Vietnam because of it's greed. And wanted to show it's military power to the world. I for one am glad we lost that one. We needed a good butt-kicking to bring our government back to reality.

  11. #11
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Greed in what way? We had a shortage of rice?

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    In hindsight we went to war for all the wrong reasons.
    In the midst of things like the cuban missle crisis and the begining of the space race, this goverment viewed The expansion of communism into South east Asia as a real threat to international security and workd peace.
    The leaders of the day, JFK included, still had world war two as a not so distant memory and tended to look at the international situation in that frame of mind.
    With europe divided, and a draft still in place from world war two and Korea as well as the occupation, we had the military capicity to send advisors to Vietnam to help the goverment in the South, which was very corrupt, to hold of communist rebels (Viet Cong) from the North who wanted to unite the then divided country under a socialist form of goverment. This was in the very early sixties under Kennedy
    As the situation deteriorated, we sent more equipment more advisors ,and finally, combat troops. What started as a shadow war between China and the USSR on one side and us on the other soon became a fullblown (undeclared) war for us.
    Our advisarys at the time were more than happy to see us bogged down there while the conflicts waged on for ten years
    The citizens did not want us there and that is why we we lost, If you can lose a war you never declared.
    The draft, already in place made it very easy.
    While we invaded Iraq, for whatever reasons , that seems to be the only difference. We seem bogged down in a war we can't win because, it seems, a majority of the people don't want us there.
    We seem to respect and honor our troops more now because many of us are vets of Nam, or have family members who are and we remember how shabily they were treated when they came back. How shabily the VA treats them today.
    Bush wasn't there, Kerry was. I can see a difference in resolve. Bush resolved not to go and used his influence to get out of it. Kerry went, Performed bravley and saw the injustice and folly of it. He came home and took an unpopular stand and spoke out against it.
    What shows more courage, fortitude and conviction? What defines a commander and chief .
    "If you want to know what God thinks of money just look at the people he gave it to."

    By the way, what happened to biker? I miss the old coot.

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    Bush comforts daughter of 9/11 victim

    On September 11th, Ashley lost her mom at the World Trade Center. Earlier this year, she was comforted by President Bush.

    Click here to see Ashley's story.

  14. #14
    Member MOPEDER's Avatar
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    Smile Even Bush's cousins are for Kerry!


  15. #15
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    Thumbs down Bush isn't fit for command

    "A political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the facts is not a person you want as your commander in chief." ~ George W. Bush (10/27/04)
    With George W. Bush, we have a man who failed in two businesses of his own. On taking office, he inherited a huge surplus and turned it into the largest deficit in history.

    He is the first president since Herbert Hoover to lose jobs in the national economy.

    Iraq is a disaster. He talks tough on terrorism but leaves our chemical plants unguarded and unprotected from terrorists and our shipping containers unscanned by any bomb-searching devices.

    Instead of spending the money available to protect us, he uses it to give his contributors (billionaires) a large tax cut.

    And he's tough on terrorism? When he walks with a swagger and talks tough, how many terrorists does he scare?

    He doesn't even like to read in order to study the issues involved. How can he possibly know what's going on?

    He is further threatening one of our oldest and most successful institutions, Social Security, with a "privatization" scheme that will no doubt be as disasterous as his other initiatives.

    The only reason he has given for his re-election is in his attempted smear of his opponent, claiming John Kerry is unfit while offering more of the same disasters.

    Bush has been proven over and over again to be totally incompetent and unfit for the job. His re-election would be a catastrophe unparalleled in our history.
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