Buffalo Police Officer Cariol J.Horne - BRAVO !

[4248]

Officer walks out of disciplinary hearing

Testimony on fight closed to supporters

Buffalo Police Officer Cariol J. Horne walked out of her closed-door disciplinary hearing Saturday morning on the second floor of Buffalo Police Headquarters after the city refused to open it up to the public.
quoted from Buff News
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Bravo Officer Cariol J. Horne !

These are some of the tactics I was speaking about. Administration uses these sort of tactics to deny the rights of Police , Fire Fighters and other City Workers.

I am glad the press picked up on this aspect of this situation.

It seems unthinkable that in a "Law Enforcement" environment - such as the Police Department - that Constitutional rights are denied by the City and or the Department , behind closed doors.

I believe the Major will be looking hard at this whole - closed door injustice system . It would seem "Street Criminals" have more protection under the laws then City workers ! ?

The Constitutional guarantee's every be treated by the same rules. Unfortunately - it seems "Politics,Gender and Race" determine workers rights - not the Law of our Country.

Mr.Meagan has done a stellar job as Police Union President - This situation should be and I am sure will be Publicly addressed . He has for years tried to make people aware of this kind of injustice.

Bravo Officer Cariol J.Horne!

You have many supporters !

[run4it]

Interesting...BRAVO's with a complaint about "closed doors" and finger pointing at the City, but absolutely NOTHING about what was actually happening.

[unioncop]

Carol Horne is a piece of sh*t and should have never been hired back its not a black/white thing because every black officer I have spoken to also feels the same way I and other white officers do. And her supporter Idella Adrams was fired from this department not because she was black but because she also is a piece of sh*t. If you really think she is a good person just go ask her own neighbors who have called the police numerous times on her and her kids. No matter what the judge ruled in macks case there was an accusation that warranted an arrest and no matter if you agree with being arrested you can not resist you can not even resist an unlawful arrest which this was not. People on this MB complain about cops that take advantage of the system and now some want to support one of the biggest scamers.

[4248]

Interesting...BRAVO's with a complaint about "closed doors" and finger pointing at the City, but absolutely NOTHING about what was actually happening.

Whats happening is within the City of Buffalo - Unionized workers are being discriminated against - right of due process ignored - contracts are broken - and the news only tells one slanted side of a story.

All taxpayers read about is how unhappy - Police , Firemen and Unionized workers are about "Not getting enough money"

They don't get the full picture as to how these same people don't enjoy the same rights and employer commitment others do . They are judged by "Politics , Race , Gender and popularity" not work ethic , experience and education . That adds major stress to already stressful jobs .

As with the fire department - some candidates for promotion were "Excluded" because Mr.Matareese(spelling?) wanted to cut out certain "White-Union Loyal Candidates" he even was so blatant as to admit that fact . While still fighting a lawsuit brought about by Men of Color within the Department .

As far as Officer Cariol Horne - its not about what she did or didn't do - its about giving her the same "Rights" as criminals receive(she has been convicted of nothing) - an honest open chance to be heard - to have her open day in court - the City choses to deny that to many employees and many times the Department Admin sides with those who writes their checks instead of the worker. The admin even charges people for talking to the media - but at the same time these workers are convicted , discredited and embarrassed by that same media with information the admin provided them!

The Admin is usually the "Inner Circle" of Politically well connected and many are promoted based on Campaign Loyalties.

This isn't about any one Officer - its about the excepted - hidden - denial of workers/peoples rights by the "Admin." Rights guaranteed to all citizens.

This is 2007 - not 1965 -

[unioncop]

people should be more outraged that horne was even on the street probably hasnt made an arrest in 8 years let alone wrote any kind of tickets. Well I have to stop now because I could go on and on about her.

[WNYresident]

You should define what "piece of crap" means. Is she a piece because she is complaining about another officer?

support one of the biggest scamers.

Or is she one that likes to pad over time or what ever...



And you mentioned someone was fired from the department. I thought very very few over the last 25 years in the city ever get fired. WHy would Idella Adrams get fired?

[unioncop]

As far as Officer Cariol Horne - its not about what she did or didn't do - its about giving her the same "Rights" as criminals receive - an honest open chance to be heard - to have her open day in court - the City choses to deny that to many employees and many times the Department Admin sides with those who writes their checks instead of the worker.

There is where you are wrong we go to such cases and we have a lawyer who represents us against the charges in front of us. And how can you say is not about what she did or didn't do? If not for what she did she would not be in this spot.

[unioncop]

You should define what "piece of crap" means. Is she a piece because she is complaining about another officer?

she was also fired and then sued and awarded her job back with back pay somewhere around $200,000 - $300,000



[Quote}Or is she one that likes to pad over time or what ever... [/Quote] padding overtime is one thing cause while doing that you are working and protecting the city but there are some out there that will claim a fall down 1 stair or the back of a chair was too loose and now they are unable to work due to some back pain and she is one of those pieces of crap I am talking about.

And you mentioned someone was fired from the department. I thought very very few over the last 25 years in the city ever get fired. WHy would Idella Adrams get fired?

you are absolutly rigth very few ever get fired so you must do something totally out of the line that the union and its lawyers can not save you and horne was already fired once.

[4248]

Carol Horne is a piece of sh*t and should have never been hired back its not a black/white thing because every black officer I have spoken to also feels the same way I and other white officers do. And her supporter Idella Adrams was fired from this department not because she was black but because she also is a piece of sh*t. If you really think she is a good person just go ask her own neighbors who have called the police numerous times on her and her kids. No matter what the judge ruled in macks case there was an accusation that warranted an arrest and no matter if you agree with being arrested you can not resist you can not even resist an unlawful arrest which this was not. People on this MB complain about cops that take advantage of the system and now some want to support one of the biggest scamers.

In the United States of America - you do have the right to resist arrest. Thats another fact enforcers and judges have over looked. Without that privilege where would we be? All to often Enforcers will say "They resisted arrest" when what happened was the person being arrested honestly believed they did not break the law.

Enforcers will use that when the other "Charges" they are considering don't hold water.Its a way of stacking the deck to cover their actions.

That said not many honest Officers use that technique. But it is used.
Last point most Street Officers are taught to be aware of laws they need to enforce or the ones that CYA.

How many Street Level Officers are trained in Constitutional Law? How many have any kind of "Law Degree" ? Not bashing COPS - just stating fact!

[unioncop]

In the United States of America - you do have the right to resist arrest. Thats another fact enforcers and judges have over looked. Without that privilege where would we be? All to often Enforcers will say "They resisted arrest" when what happened was the person being arrested honestly believed they did not break the law.

I believe you are wrong here I think the penal law states that a person does not have the right to resist arrest even if that arrest is believed to be unlawful.....resisting an unlawful arrest is not an affirmative defense. But in all fairness I will check the NYS Penal Law tonight at work if there is time and tell everyone tomorrow even if i am wrong.

[rocking ron]

Did someone mention overtime--- It's all about getting overtime

[Deerhunter]

But I do know Greg and from all accounts she should be fired. She should not be a Police Officer. How does someone "pad" overtime. The City miscalculated when they wanted to get to 675 Officers. They didn't anticipate the 10% that are routinely off injured. That is why there is overtime. You have to be called in by a LT to work OT. You can't "pad" it.

[BuffaloEMT14216]

I love the fact that the accusers claims this happened in NOVEMBER! WTF month is it now? Also Mack accused Officer Greg of using brass knuckles. What a bunch of horsesh*t!
Nobody knows what occurred that day accept the officers at the scene and the accuser. I have been called to numerous scenes for medical attention while police officers are trying to make an arrest or even talk to witnesses. These men and women, black, white, yellow, get sh*t on by the public.

The accuser is a piece of **** and I enjoy the fact he had all his medical attention at Strong Memorial in Rochester. Needed to doctor up some of the injuries. We can all sleep well knowing we payed for it.

[4248]

I believe you are wrong here I think the penal law states that a person does not have the right to resist arrest even if that arrest is believed to be unlawful.....resisting an unlawful arrest is not an affirmative defense. But in all fairness I will check the NYS Penal Law tonight at work if there is time and tell everyone tomorrow even if i am wrong.

“These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence.” Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903.
“An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).


“Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).



“One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).



“Story affirmed the right of self-defense by persons held illegally. In his own writings, he had admitted that ‘a situation could arise in which the checks-and-balances principle ceased to work and the various branches of government concurred in a gross usurpation.’ There would be no usual remedy by changing the law or passing an amendment to the Constitution, should the oppressed party be a minority. Story concluded, ‘If there be any remedy at all ... it is a remedy never provided for by human institutions.’ That was the ‘ultimate right of all human beings in extreme cases to resist oppression, and to apply force against ruinous injustice.’” (From Mutiny on the Amistad by Howard Jones, Oxford University Press, 1987, an account of the reading of the decision in the case by Justice Joseph Story of the Supreme Court.

[Deerhunter]

If you resist arrest in NYS, you are putting yourself in danger. As Article 35 points out, we can use enough force necessary to make the arrest. That means you use a bit more force than the suspect. It is that simple. I have never witnessed or heard about someone resisting arrest, and ultimately not arrested. If someone resists arrest, they usually end up going to ecmc , then to the Holding Center. That has been my experience anyway. Quote whatever you want, but that is the way it is.