Spanish Debate what a slap in the face.

[CSense]

Look I don't care who's at fault just fix the F'n problem. The teachers say its the kids, not enough money, bad environment, blah, blah, blah, etc. The parents say its the school system, bad environment, blah, blah, blah. School administrators say they don't have enough money, bad teachers, blah, blah, blah.

For Pete's sake what's the problem! It looks like a lot of educated people can't figure out anything except spend money.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Look I don't care who's at fault just fix the F'n problem. The teachers say its the kids, not enough money, bad environment, blah, blah, blah, etc. The parents say its the school system, bad environment, blah, blah, blah. School administrators say they don't have enough money, bad teachers, blah, blah, blah.

For Pete's sake what's the problem! It looks like a lot of educated people can't figure out anything except spend money.

You just pointed out the problem. It is the finger pointing!!!!


Everyone involved is part of the problem and must be part of the solution. The challenge is those involved do not want to take any blame whatsoever.

[Cgoodsp466]

don't forget the tax payers that believe, somehow, being educated on the cheap is possible and practical.

My school Taxes are to Friggin High.

[WNYresident]

don't forget the tax payers that believe, somehow, being educated on the cheap is possible and practical.

Remember paying someone more doesn't make them better at what they do in most cases. How does paying a bad employee more make them a better employee the next higher paycheck?

[Cgoodsp466]

Remember paying someone more doesn't make them better at what they do in most cases. How does paying a bad employee more make them a better employee the next higher paycheck?

Res you just described all Unions and public sector employees.

[colossus27]

don't forget the tax payers that believe, somehow, being educated on the cheap is possible and practical.

You can't blame them- It's not working when it's expensive and wasteful.

[colossus27]

Everyone involved is part of the problem and must be part of the solution. The challenge is those involved do not want to take any blame whatsoever.

Everybody? How so?

What role did we play in setting the state's requirements for a HS diploma? What role did we play in setting the requirements for a teaching certificate? What say do you have in who selects the Board of Regents?

The people in charge of the program, as a whole, are to blame.

The 90's and this decade did not have a monopoly on inattentive, alcoholic, or drug-abusing parents. Single mothers alone don't account for such low performance, nationwide.

Society has a lot to do with the difficulties in educating kids, to be certain, but the requirements for teaching have not kept up with advancements in many fields, science in particular. We already know the typical level of English has slipped...math is even worse.

I look around and I see people with a laughable 2-year 'doctorate' of education pontificating about what kids need- this 'doctor' has an educational background in music. Gotta think he's got his finger on the pulse of the science syllabus, hmm? He doesn't, and what's worse, he's spending all of his/her time figuring out how the school will administer a program so red-tape laden it makes the tax code look like tic-tac-toe. And while I'm at it, you so don't want to know what these people are paid.

There's not a single scientist or mathematician on the NY State Board of Regents.

Five and a half hours of instruction per day, 186 days a year. So much for instilling a 'full-time' work ethic.

Speaking of work- this costs taxpayers, per hour, more than the median hourly income in Erie Co.

Everybody loses.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Everybody? How so?

What role did we play in setting the state's requirements for a HS diploma? What role did we play in setting the requirements for a teaching certificate? What say do you have in who selects the Board of Regents?

The people in charge of the program, as a whole, are to blame.

The 90's and this decade did not have a monopoly on inattentive, alcoholic, or drug-abusing parents. Single mothers alone don't account for such low performance, nationwide.

Society has a lot to do with the difficulties in educating kids, to be certain, but the requirements for teaching have not kept up with advancements in many fields, science in particular. We already know the typical level of English has slipped...math is even worse.

I look around and I see people with a laughable 2-year 'doctorate' of education pontificating about what kids need- this 'doctor' has an educational background in music. Gotta think he's got his finger on the pulse of the science syllabus, hmm? He doesn't, and what's worse, he's spending all of his/her time figuring out how the school will administer a program so red-tape laden it makes the tax code look like tic-tac-toe. And while I'm at it, you so don't want to know what these people are paid.

There's not a single scientist or mathematician on the NY State Board of Regents.

Five and a half hours of instruction per day, 186 days a year. So much for instilling a 'full-time' work ethic.

Speaking of work- this costs taxpayers, per hour, more than the median hourly income in Erie Co.

Everybody loses.

Let me guess. You are a teacher. Quite predictable.....


I agree 100% with the challenges you outlined in regards to administration and parents. Additional to this, things like the board of regents and local boards of education.

But....

If you do not see that the machine known as the teachers union is not one of the main players in the decline of our education system, you are blind and a fool.

[Timmy]

If you have a union and a school board and a board of education that through taxpayer money and buracracy at every problem then teachers will gladly take the money....but ask any teacher if they are getting the discipline, focus, the safety, the attention, the structure, etc to do their job and they will say know.

All the scandinavian countries now have school vouchers and school choice. A parent may send their child to any school they choose and its been that way for decades. They get some of the best academic results and the costs are reasonable. Gotta love how pragmatic and reasonable scandinavians are...and darn attractive TOO!

Now according to the ECONOMIST Britain is considering joining the school voucher and school choice ... by emulating the scandinavian system...to fix what is one of the worst public educational systems in the developed world.

New Jersey is the latest state to sue and win the right for parents to send their children to the school of their choice....NYS has it but its very restricted.

The future is very clear and the teachers unions may slow it but will not be able to stop it. Teachers unions are going the way of the teamsters (truck drivers union that could once shut down the country), going the way of the auto union, the textile union and the steel unions.

The US is going to get school choice and school vouchers. Unions will still be in schools but without total control of the public school system they will no longer be able to rig elections and fix political agendas and hold the taxpayer hostage in their arbitration.

The sooner it happens the sooner our kids will stop being warehoused and start learning for the 21st century.

[Timmy]

and yes, all political debates should be in english

english should be made the official language of government

thats not to say that you cannot speak other languages. I applaud those who are multi-lingual.....but a unified government and a unified country requires a single language.

otherwise your going to get the belgian and canadian problem.

Belgium is divided by french speaking and dutch speaking....their country is forever torn in two and constantly debating dissolution

Canada is divided by french and english speaking....their country is forever torn by succession of the canadian province as well

Will american be divided between the spanish speaking and the english speaking.....forced on us by illegal immigrants...who refuse to wave the american flag or speak the english language or accept the free market capitalistic practices or import their central and south american marxist/socialist programs

[FisherRd]

Good old Timmy...Why use 15 words when 500 will do, right?

[run4it]

All the scandinavian countries now have school vouchers and school choice. A parent may send their child to any school they choose and its been that way for decades. They get some of the best academic results and the costs are reasonable. Gotta love how pragmatic and reasonable scandinavians are...and darn attractive TOO!

I hate to turn this into another voucher thread, but if you're going to be incorrect, I'm going to have to correct you.

Let's just take a look at Finland. I believe it's in Scandanavia, correct?

Yes, they do fund private schools. For the past "decades" (and sorry, this is the most recent information I could find), as of 1999, 9 private schools had applied for public funding, and 4 had been approved. Private schools are only allowed as they are "required by educational need and to fulfil other conditions prescribed by legislation." That means, no private schools unless the public schools are for some reason unable to provide the education (probably why there were only 4 schools in the country).

Private schools that receive public funds only get 90% of the funding that public schools get

Private school teachers are still part of the same public school teachers union, and the private school must bargain with that union.

The curriculum is the same as public schools. Teaching methods in Finland are largely prescribed at the local level, so both public and private schools have a wide margin for their methodology.

Finland (and the other Scandanavian countries) can recognize private (read: religious) schools because they have STATE SPONSORED RELIGIONS! I don't think we want to go down that road.


But while we're making comparisons, Timmay, why is it that European education systems are so great, but we shouldn't go anywhere near a European style health care system? You're pointing towards Europe as a progressing standard (incorrect as it may be).

[colossus27]

Let me guess. You are a teacher. Quite predictable.....


I agree 100% with the challenges you outlined in regards to administration and parents. Additional to this, things like the board of regents and local boards of education.

But....

If you do not see that the machine known as the teachers union is not one of the main players in the decline of our education system, you are blind and a fool.

That's a pretty amusing assumption, considering I've nothing but bile for school unions- you haven't seen my other posts

I'm not a teacher, I'm an engineer, and I've a 14-year old son attending a public school. I specifically avoided school taxes, lest this turn into another 6-page thread where Linda makes unfounded claims, and then either dissapears or ignores your obvious questions.

The entire system- from the state regents down to the tax assessments- is an abject failure.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

But while we're making comparisons, Timmay, why is it that European education systems are so great, but we shouldn't go anywhere near a European style health care system? You're pointing towards Europe as a progressing standard (incorrect as it may be).

Started a thread on just this topic. It is here

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

That's a pretty amusing assumption, considering I've nothing but bile for school unions- you haven't seen my other posts

I'm not a teacher, I'm an engineer, and I've a 14-year old son attending a public school. I specifically avoided school taxes, lest this turn into another 6-page thread where Linda makes unfounded claims, and then either disappears or ignores your obvious questions.

The entire system- from the state regents down to the tax assessments- is an abject failure.

Sorry. Your posts are new to me.

The reason I assumed you were a teacher is you did not lay any blame on them. I stated it is a mess because of all involved. You said "The people in charge of the program, as a whole, are to blame." which led me to believe you were pointing the finger. Sorry.