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Thread: Regionalism?

  1. #1
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    Regionalism?

    http://www.nytowns.org/core/contentm...al.Control.pdf

    Worth a read.

    Why has New York State developed a strong small municipal (towns and villages) type of government while the southern states rely more on county and larger government?


    Don't over think it...not that I worry about that on this forum.

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    It's not a very well written piece. The author starts with claims and finds data to support these claims. Much of the reasoning is spurious.

    Not that I discount the claim, I just don't think the article really supports it. For instance, they use tax per capita. That's a very poor indicator as there are *huge* cost of living fluctuations and salary fluctuations and home price fluctuations between the regions.

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    Ok, but any thoughts on the question?

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    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Why has New York State developed a strong small municipal (towns and villages) type of government while the southern states rely more on county and larger government?
    Fiefdoms, greed and political jobs.

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    Tony's 100% right...
    "I know you guys enjoy reading my stuff because it all makes sense. "

    Dumbest post ever! Thanks for the laugh PO!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by eleanor View Post
    http://www.nytowns.org/core/contentm...al.Control.pdf

    Worth a read.

    Why has New York State developed a strong small municipal (towns and villages) type of government while the southern states rely more on county and larger government?


    Don't over think it...not that I worry about that on this forum.
    The prime directive of government is employment, this is accomplished by bureacracies, multiple layers of government, more government workers per capita etc. etc. etc.

    How can we achieve the prime directive if you don't let us have all the venues for government employment?

    I am very happy we have 400 plus elected officials and over 75 taxing jurisdictions because it means we have a greater voice and more control over our economic destiny...right?

    I am of course being sarcastic.

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    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Think about this. Where can you get a job and for the most part have NO ACCOUNTABILITY for what do? Only in NYS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    Think about this. Where can you get a job and for the most part have NO ACCOUNTABILITY for what do? Only in NYS.
    Not sorry to disagree with you Tony, but I had ACCOUNTABILITY when I worked for my city, I was "on-call" 24/7/365, was responsible for the safety of the public, I showed up for work an hour early every day & rec'd no compensation for that, no overtime, when I did get called, it was "comp time" I rec'd, whoopee! If I made a mistake, people could die, NO ONE ever did, I think I accepted my paycheck PROUDLY, you could have entered civil service, took & exam & passed, got hired, then get shook down by the politicians, but you chose to go private, your choice, my choice was right for me, I'm not ashamed, DO NOT COLOR ALL civil servants with one brush stroke, it's as ignorant as damning or genocide on a whole group of people for their race, creed, or religion! Plus, I rec'd no monetary overtime, could not inflate my pension, which was determined LONG before I was hired, I collect that proudly also, & it's not enough as I still look for work.....
    And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15
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    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Think about this. Where can you get a job and for the most part have NO ACCOUNTABILITY for what do? Only in NYS.
    For the most part I think my comment is true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    For the most part I think my comment is true.
    WNY would be the jewel of the Northeast if we got what we paid for.

    The highest taxes in the nation, and our success is measured by the people and businesses we got to stay here. I just got my workman's comp figure this quarter. ridiculous.

  11. #11
    Member dgrzeb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    For the most part I think my comment is true.
    Again Tony, not sorry to disagree with you, for the most part you "think" your OPINION is true, it's not fact. Is there abuse of public monies, yes, is there abuse by unions, yes (some, not all!), is there abuse by the rich who control this country AND world abusing us, YES! It's the aristocrats who can afford all that don't care about private, public, or working people at all! NYS & our governments are pawns to these rich folks & PAC's & tell OUR representatives what & how to screw us more. I was accountable, I pay high taxes also, I pay for services also, I can't retire without finding another job to make our weekly budget meet. I was blessed to come back from the Disney area in Florida, I think if you've been brainwashed to hate civil servants & unions, you're living in the Magical Kingdom of Disney World. That said, when's another lunch date, I still love ya
    And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15
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    Great responses, but no one has nailed it yet. Over the last 100 years why has New York State developed such strong Town and Village governments?

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    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by eleanor View Post
    Great responses, but no one has nailed it yet. Over the last 100 years why has New York State developed such strong Town and Village governments?



    Fiefdoms, greed and political jobs.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by eleanor View Post
    Great responses, but no one has nailed it yet. Over the last 100 years why has New York State developed such strong Town and Village governments?
    Are you truly looking for an answer or is this supposed to be some kind of quiz?

    If you are looking an answer, here it is:

    NYS has a tradition of town government because it was settled primarily by New England "Yankees" who brought their ideas of local control with them. From the earliest settlement, settlers congregated into clumps that eventually became hamlets and villages because small farms make for a denser population and because small farmers depend on service providers like blacksmiths, wagon-makers, and storekeepers who congregate in little towns. The Yankees also brought with them their ideas about the community churches and schools. That ethic has been around since the colonial era and continues even today.

    In the South, the early settlers copied the British shire (county) form of government rather than the town form that developed further north. Also, the farms were larger and thus more isolated in the South, even in colonial times.The large plantations were largely self-sufficient as slaves usually provided the services independent tradesmen did in the North, and frequently, plantation owners who lived along navigable rivers had their own docks so that they didn't need to have local stores, either, but could depend upon more distant merchants, some in England. Small farmers were much more likely to be subsistence farmers in the South than in the North because they had a harder time getting their products to market. There were no canals, few improved roads, and not many railroads even by 1860.

    In the piedmont area of the South, particularly in the Upper South (Virginia, Maryland, Kentucky) where plantations were less common and small farms prevalent, similar patterns of small towns developed as they did in the North. However, in the South, the planters dominated the state governments, and they voted for what was in their interests, not what was in the interests of the smaller landowners. The pattern of larger land-holding in the South continued from the colonial period into the 20th century, resulting in a much lower population density in rural areas than in New England, New York or the Midwest.

    Finally, many southern states have counties that are considerably smaller than counties in NYS, not just in population but in physical area. Consequently, states smaller than NYS may have a 100+ counties. NYS has 62. In WNY, we have the largest counties in area in the state outside of the Adirondaks. Erie County has an area of about 1000 square miles, Chautauqua and Cattaraugus about 1200 square miles each. The counties in Adirondaks like Hamilton, Essex and Warren are even larger, but have much less population. Long distances between different parts of counties created strong attachments to the nearest local government, not to the county government, in the 19th and early 20th centuries when transportation was harder.

    Most posters on this MB who are from Buffalo and its suburbs frequently write as if they think all of Erie County is like Buffalo, Amherst, Clarence, Cheektowaga, etc. Well it's not. That's the big downside of having a large counties. When was the last time you visited Marilla or Sardinia or even North Collins?

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    The last post is almost there.

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