Regionalism?

[Save Us]

The last post is almost there.

It sounds as if you have the answer.. please tell it.

[eleanor]

Maybe not an answer but a hypothesis, widely accepted in academia. Not that that is any reason to not question it. I want to hear what other people think first.

[buffy]

I would love to see a regional western new york. I think its our only chance to have influence in Albany.

[granpabob]

greedy village merchants did not want there farm customers having any say over their kingdoms so they formed strong village governments to keep the farmers out. the farmers inturn formed strong towns to fight back. each group made sure anyone working for them or the kingdom they ruled over voted for them by protecting their jobs and firing those who did not do what they were told.
these kingdoms also never worked with other kingdoms surrounding .over decades each group became Stronger with laws written to protect their way of life and guarantee they would never have to work together for the common good.
in the south you had many rich land owners who did not want to personally worry about their people so they got together and formed Strong county governments and hired people to take care of their people for them. The rich land owners are now gone put the county governments are still taking care of people
The difference is the northern kingdoms work to perpetuate the kingdom the southern counties work to help the people.

[WNYresident]

I would love to see a regional western new york. I think its our only chance to have influence in Albany.

We combine buffalo with the surrounding burbs.

I for one don't give a crap to where my mail is addressed to. Depew or Buffalo makes no difference to me.

What advantages would we have if we were a city of 900,000 people versus multiple fiefdoms.

[dgrzeb]

We combine buffalo with the surrounding burbs.

I for one don't give a crap to where my mail is addressed to. Depew or Buffalo makes no difference to me.

What advantages would we have if we were a city of 900,000 people versus multiple fiefdoms.

I've agreed with a Metro Buffalo area for ages, we've seen it work positively for many cities, I agree, there's some greedy power brokers who don't want to give up their kingdoms, like small Local Unions who won't combine with others to cut costs, like school systems who won't join together, some places have three superintendents when only one is needed.... Just some examples.

[buffy]

We combine buffalo with the surrounding burbs.

I for one don't give a crap to where my mail is addressed to. Depew or Buffalo makes no difference to me.

What advantages would we have if we were a city of 900,000 people versus multiple fiefdoms.

If we"re going to do it, we"re doing it bigger, smarter, better - we regionalize the Niagara Frontier Region, which already exits as a "Region" Our brand is Niagara. think of the opportunity to reinvent ourselves. Maybe even build a few bridges to Canada.

Combine Erie & Niagara Counties!
http://www.westernny.com/buff.html

[buffy]

http://www.nytowns.org/core/contentm...al.Control.pdf

Worth a read.

Why has New York State developed a strong small municipal (towns and villages) type of government while the southern states rely more on county and larger government?


Don't over think it...not that I worry about that on this forum.

conclusion #4 implys that we should be happier that our region is doing so poorly b/c if our region were to draw more people, our standard of living would increase along with property taxes and such. I understand the logic, just don"t tell that to anyone living in the City of Niagara Falls

[Linda_D]

I would love to see a regional western new york. I think its our only chance to have influence in Albany.

ROTFLMAO. How? Do you think that Erie County will get more state senators and assembly if it pretends to be both Erie County and the City of Buffalo?

We combine buffalo with the surrounding burbs.

I for one don't give a crap to where my mail is addressed to. Depew or Buffalo makes no difference to me.

What advantages would we have if we were a city of 900,000 people versus multiple fiefdoms.

Why don't you tell us what those advantages would be since you think this is a good idea? If you're in favor of something, you ought to know why you like the idea.

[WNYresident]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WNYresident
We combine buffalo with the surrounding burbs.

I for one don't give a crap to where my mail is addressed to. Depew or Buffalo makes no difference to me.

What advantages would we have if we were a city of 900,000 people versus multiple fiefdoms.

Why don't you tell us what those advantages would be since you think this is a good idea? If you're in favor of something, you ought to know why you like the idea.

I think power in numbers.... less duplication of "government inc" administration personal.

There must be something with a city as how it's schools are funded. A buffalo resident doesn't pay school taxes like we do in the burbs. Correct?

There must be other advantages...

Better development planning. You wouldn't have one fiefdom giving away IDA breaks to move from buffalo to amherst or lancaster etc...

[buffy]

ROTFLMAO. How? idea.

I said "I would love to see"
Not "This is how I would do it"

i'm floating ideas here, last I checked, this wasn't a regional planning board
Girl can dream can't she?

i am not a politician, nor do I aspire to be

[WNYresident]

One large purchasing department ran efficiently versus one for each town/village/the city...

One tourism group organizing all the event within our area...with another small group looking how to monetize it to pull visitors into the community.

Just less duplication of departments and costs over all...

[wnyerlaughs]

http://www.nytowns.org/core/contentm...al.Control.pdf

Worth a read.

Why has New York State developed a strong small municipal (towns and villages) type of government while the southern states rely more on county and larger government?


Don't over think it...not that I worry about that on this forum.

Simple: because it creates more govt jobs, and Democrat voters, when they couldn;t figure out a way to make private sector jobs.

[wnyerlaughs]

Again Tony, not sorry to disagree with you, for the most part you "think" your OPINION is true, it's not fact. Is there abuse of public monies, yes, is there abuse by unions, yes (some, not all!), is there abuse by the rich who control this country AND world abusing us, YES! It's the aristocrats who can afford all that don't care about private, public, or working people at all! NYS & our governments are pawns to these rich folks & PAC's & tell OUR representatives what & how to screw us more. I was accountable, I pay high taxes also, I pay for services also, I can't retire without finding another job to make our weekly budget meet. I was blessed to come back from the Disney area in Florida, I think if you've been brainwashed to hate civil servants & unions, you're living in the Magical Kingdom of Disney World. That said, when's another lunch date, I still love ya

You pay high taxes? how so? please explain, because if your NY pension is tax free, then you're not paying any NY income tax on it at all. That pension was funded by taxpayers (and maybe a small contribution from yourself), so it's not like it's YOU paying property taxes if yuo're retired: it's the rest of us paying your taxes by way of the taxpayer funded pension.. Also, any NY incomes taxes that you paid during your working years are, in reality, being refunded to you via the pension payments. Example: Did you pay maybe $3-4,000 per year in NYS income tax when working? And how much are you receiving now in NY pension, NY tax-free. for the rest of your life? Maybe more than 3 or 4k per year? That's win win isnt it..full refund of all the NY Income taxes you ever paid, thats how the math works out. It;s funny and sad when yuo add up how much you may have paid in NY property and income taxes during your civil/public working years, and then compare that to how much MORE is being now given back to you NY tax free. Most likely, it more than covers all the NY income and property taxes you ever paid in.

Back to the thread topic though...someone had an explanation we were waiting for?

[eleanor]

The hypothesis I accept to the answer of the thread question is one four letter word: SNOW

More precisely our freeze thaw cycle in New York State. Northern roads requirement for more maintenance, than their southern counter parts, have created the need for many localized highway departments. Town governments developed around the increasing funds to maintain the roadways. Roads can not be efficiently maintained by regional county style government.

Here is the break down for New York:
Town per lane mile cost: $24,581
Cities per lane mile cost: $26,387
Counties per lane mile cost: $41,087
Village per lane mile cost: $45,575*
NYS Thruway Authority per lane mile: $259,649**
New York DOT per lane mile:$493,333**

*quality of service is greatly increased at this level, ie, sidewalk plowing, snow bank removal, etc. at apparent desire of residence.
** Costs for these roads are estimated to be 3-4x higher because of truck traffic.
***New York DOT, may not be accurate because of difficulty in obtaining data.

Towns cover:57,970 miles
Cities cover: 12,430 miles
Counties cover: 20,736 miles
Villages cover: 6,780 miles
NYS Thruway Authority: 1,187 miles
NYS DOT: 15,000+ miles



I believe the most efficient way to deliver snowplowing and road maintenance is through town and city government. Combining these services to more resemble a county style government will not only cost 67% more but, if Erie county is any example, decrease quality of service. I would even contend that although cities and towns are close in cost per mile that quality of service is higher in towns. I don't consider villages because residence of them seem to enjoy paying the additional cost for the additional service. And they have little affect on costs to people outside villages yet the outsiders still enjoy the benefits.

Considering the hypothesis, we won't save money by combining this service, which totals 23% of total town spending. One of the largest expenditures for towns is an essential service and they are providing it more efficiently than any other agency. It seems it will be difficult to shrink government on this level.


Here is my solution:
Town governments should gain more roads and other services, they provide efficiently, under their responsibility. Decrease the state budget and county budgets accordingly and shrink those levels of government. Personally, I would like to see Erie county shrunk as small as possible. And go back to a board of Town Supervisors. Further, spending on the state level needs to be decreased, seeing as 50% of OP's budget and 88% of Erie county's budget are state mandates.

http://www.nyslocalgov.org/pdf/HighwayServices.pdf

http://www.thruway.ny.gov/about/fact...ml#Maintenance

Our educational system needs to be overhauled as well. Using a study that ranks New York as 2nd in results(which contradicts the governors 34th in results statement), the other top five places are underspending New York by at least 20%. We can obviously make cuts here and not suffer worse results, if we do, it is do to mismanagement not under funding. We should look at what other top states are doing and copy their systems.