Well is there a market for grain elevator tourism?

[300miles]

Also complicating the issue would be the type of company. If your company makes it's profit from stripping buildings of their value and selling off the scraps, then the city would be very smart to be suspicious of any claims that the building is "too far gone" to reuse.

[Linda_D]

Anyone pushing to demolish a structure that has some (any) historic designation would normally be prepared to defend that decision. Obviously the basic questions are going to pop up:

What is your business plan?
Why this site?
Why demolition?
Why can't the structure be repaired or reused?
What would you build in it's place?

Those are really simple questions for a business. If the particular site is key to your business, and it can be proven via engineering studies that the structures can't realistically be repaired or sealed off, and can be proven they are a danger to people and workers, and you can show that you would grow your business significantly to offset the loss, then the request gets approved.

But if you walk into city hall saying the structure is "too far gone" yet haven't had an engineer even look at the building. And haven't provided any real proof that you couldn't work around the structures instead of demolishing them, and can't explain why you couldn't just use an empty site down the road instead, and don't provide any plan for how your going to use the site or create new jobs... then the city would probably deny or table the decision and tell you to come back when you have something to show them.

Wouldn't that be reasonable?

I'm no expert on the processes at city hall, but people on this site seem to think that owners don't need any permission at all to demolish something, and that this whole thing is only being debated because of some whiny meddling preservationists protesting outside the grain elevator with their tweed jackets and asthma inhalers. But the fact is that it's normal procedure to have to get approval for the demolition. And I find it odd that this company was so unprepared to answer even basic questions. I really don't think the process is so unique to buffalo. Other cities do the same.

You cannot demo anything in the COB without a permit. Years ago, when I wanted to take down a shed in my backyard, I had to get a permit.

[Linda_D]

I can completely understand, and appreciate, the fact that Buffalo plays an integral part in the history of the grain elevator. I agree with you, and anyone else, who thinks it's neat.

Having said that, suppose I bought one of those properties simply because I liked the land, and the location. And, suppose I wanted to tear down the now long-defunct grain elevator, and build a structure that's actually functional.

What argument would you present to me in order to convince me that I should keep this non-functional building standing?

Just so you know -- if your only argument would be along the lines that "it's historic," I'd most likely tell you to go to hell.

PS On a personal note, 300 miles - you know that I've always liked and respected you. And, I've long thought LeftWNYbecauseofBS to be a turd. So, it pains to me to on the same side of the argument as the turd.

If you were actually going to develop the land into some kind of business not leave it as another overgrown empty lot, then I would NOT be opposed to demo'ing the grain elevator on it. Buffalo is NOT a museum, and as the pics Rez posted show, the current concrete grain elevators replaced earlier wooden grain elevators. I wasn't opposed to the Senecas' demo'ing the H-O elevator on their casino site.

What I oppose is demo'ing grain elevators simply to demo them, and that's what Ontario Specalty, a company that specializes in demo'ing industrial buildings, seems to want to do. They only purchased the building in October, so I'm sure that the building didn't deteriorate that rapidly in just 2 months.

[WNYresident]

What I oppose is demo'ing grain elevators simply to demo them, and that's what Ontario Specalty, a company that specializes in demo'ing industrial buildings, seems to want to do. They only purchased the building in October, so I'm sure that the building didn't deteriorate that rapidly in just 2 months.

When has this stopped being the USA? It is their property. You can't tell them what to do with it. They just have to respect the property rights of the property owners around them. The photo's I showed everyone are the true history of grain mills. The ones we have sitting there now are just concrete empty structures.

You should be happy we have someone clearing the way for the future.

[therising]

I'd say you were a dummy to buy a property with a grain elevator on it when there are vacant lots all along the waterfront where you can build your functional building. Save on demo costs and avoid the hastle- use one of the thousands of shovel-ready lots in the city.

That's fine - maybe I'm a dummy. And you have a right to call me a dummy.

But, I also have a right to be a dummy, don't I? Are you saying that your argument against me would be that my decision does not make good economic sense?

While you do have the right to call me a dummy, you don't have the right to protect me from myself.

[PickOranges]

Someone mentioned it before.. but I too would be opposed to using government money for any of their projects.

If they bought it, then they should have the resources to develop it. These companies could solicit other investors but then they would have to give up a part of the pie.

Not on my dime.. The politicians give these guys outright gifts of taxpayer's money.

[Save Us]

Someone mentioned it before.. but I too would be opposed to using government money for any of their projects.

If they bought it, then they should have the resources to develop it. These companies could solicit other investors but then they would have to give up a part of the pie.

Not on my dime.. The politicians give these guys outright gifts of taxpayer's money.

Buffalo has got to stop the if you build it they will come mentality,, and focus on bringing jobs into the area..

All the great architecture follows a vibrant a growing economy..you can't create an economy or jobs by hoping that some development attracts people.
Unless your in Orlando or Niagara Falls CA.. jobs attract people.

The money shot Bass Pro mentality reigns supreme.

[Linda_D]

When has this stopped being the USA? It is their property. You can't tell them what to do with it. They just have to respect the property rights of the property owners around them. The photo's I showed everyone are the true history of grain mills. The ones we have sitting there now are just concrete empty structures.

You should be happy we have someone clearing the way for the future.

You have to apply for a demolition permit from the COB. In fact, in most municipalities, you have to apply for a demolition permit for any permanent structure, and this has been the law for decades.

[WNYresident]

You have to apply for a demolition permit from the COB. In fact, in most municipalities, you have to apply for a demolition permit for any permanent structure, and this has been the law for decades.

I know you need a permit. I'm referring to people who want to tell people they shouldn't tear something down.

[Save Us]

I know you need a permit. I'm referring to people who want to tell people they shouldn't tear something down.

How much does Frank Lloyd, EB Green, Louis Sullivan bring into the area.. that is what I want to know.

[cookie]

I don't know which side is "right", and I'm not taking sides, but in all fairness, according to this article, it doesn't seem like the company bought adjacent property just for the express purpose of getting govt money to do a demo. Sounds like they have thoughts of some reno work along with the demoing they are seeking, and want to expand their business presence (ie ADD JOBS).
I don't really know where all the shovel ready sites in Buff. are, but are there big enough sites for their needs that are not next door to the Harbor/Canalside development? Heavy manufacturing demonstrations just don't seem appropriate for that area.

http://www.buffalonews.com/city/comm...icle285404.ece

The complex, which shut down in the mid-1970s, was acquired for about $90,000 by Ontario Specialty Contracting in October 2009, for the purpose of partial demolition, after the city and the property’s owner showed no inclination to deal with repeated building code violations, Chapin said.

“What is being torn down is not repairable,” he said. “The silos are caving in, externally and internally. The steel bands that hold the silos together are rotted through. It’s not possible to seal them up.”

Ontario Specialty Contracting also needs the space. The company employs about 100 people on-site and a few hundred at Western New York job sites.

The new space would be used for the sales, rental and service of heavy equipment, and for an industrial product manufacturing and demonstration area.

“It’s become tight for us. We have put up new buildings and remediated the old Integrated Tire property [nearby]. Last week we didn’t even have parking spaces,” Chapin said.

“What are we going to do? We have a business here that is thriving.”

He estimated the cost of demolition would be $1 million, even with the company wielding the wrecking ball.

Chapin said the roofs would be sealed on the remaining mixing and malting structures and, together with the silos, would remain as a grain elevator presence on the Buffalo River.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

What stood out to me was this...

The complex, which shut down in the mid-1970s, was acquired for about $90,000 by Ontario Specialty Contracting in October 2009, for the purpose of partial demolition, after the city and the property’s owner showed no inclination to deal with repeated building code violations, Chapin said.

So the complex was empty for 25 years and nothing was done, sold for less than a house and now people want to get up in arms?

[WNYresident]

How much does Frank Lloyd, EB Green, Louis Sullivan bring into the area.. that is what I want to know.

You mean the http://www.darwinmartinhouse.org/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graycliff


I think that stuff is cool. I don't know how many visitors they receive though. I think they were given some large grants for restoration. The grant should be weighted against return.

[therising]

Anyone pushing to demolish a structure that has some (any) historic designation would normally be prepared to defend that decision. Obviously the basic questions are going to pop up:

And my responses are in Red.

What is your business plan? **** you. As a business owner, and a property owner, my business plan is none of your ****ing business.
Why this site? Because I like the location - minutes to downtown, and close to the Southtowns.
Why demolition? Have you seen the building? It's practically falling down already. And, I happen to own a demolition company, so I can do it cheaply.
Is that illegal?
Why can't the structure be repaired or reused? See above.
What would you build in it's place? I'm not sure yet. Maybe nothing.
.

Those are really simple questions for a business. They're simple questions for a business owner to ask himself. But, they're not simple owners for a government to ask a business.

If the particular site is key to your business, and it can be proven via engineering studies that the structures can't realistically be repaired or sealed off, and can be proven they are a danger to people and workers, and you can show that you would grow your business significantly to offset the loss, then the request gets approved.
If you want me to get you an engineering study, I'll get you an engineering study.
But, you also want me to prove that it's the right financial decision for my business? Are you ****ing kidding me? I need to prove that I can "grow my business significantly?" WTF is that? You - the government - suddenly want to partner with me?
What if I want to remodel my kitchen at home? Will you need a study showing that I'll recoup my costs upon sale??

But if you walk into city hall saying the structure is "too far gone" yet haven't had an engineer even look at the building. And haven't provided any real proof that you couldn't work around the structures instead of demolishing them, and can't explain why you couldn't just use an empty site down the road instead, and don't provide any plan for how your going to use the site or create new jobs... then the city would probably deny or table the decision and tell you to come back when you have something to show them.
NOW, you tell me that?? After I already bought it?
I could understand if this building was landmarked, but it's not. And, you want to arbitrarily tell me what I can do with my property?

Wouldn't that be reasonable? NO. **** off and die.

[300miles]

^^ LOL. Fair enough. Demolition permit denied.