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Thread: Out of title pay for town employees

  1. #1
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Out of title pay for town employees

    from: http://www.westseneca.net/index.php?q=node/295

    Motion by Supervisor Piotrowski, seconded by Councilwoman Meegan, to change the status of Erik Finbar from “out of title” to Real Property Appraiser provisional effective November 15, 2010, concurrent with the town scheduling a promotional civil service exam for Real Property Appraiser, and grant Erik Finbar a leave of absence from his position as Real Property Appraisal Technician effective November 15, 2010 through June 1, 2011 and authorize the Supervisor to complete and sign the necessary forms for Erie County Personnel.

    Ayes: All Noes: None Motion Carried
    TITLE CHANGE FOR REAL PROPERTY APPRAISAL TECHNICIAN

    Amy Carpenter, Woodward Crescent, questioned the title change for Erik Finbar in the Assessor’s Office.

    Supervisor Piotrowski stated that the former Real Property Appraiser retired and Mr. Finbar has been serving in that capacity until the Town Board decides what to do with the position. It was decided that they will offer the test and appoint Mr. Finbar temporarily until he takes the Real Property Appraiser test.

    Mrs. Carpenter questioned if anyone could take the test and be considered for the position if they scored higher.

    Supervisor Piotrowski responded that anyone with the qualifications would be permitted to take the test.

    Mrs. Carpenter questioned if Mr. Finbar had any special training to become an appraiser.

    Supervisor Piotrowski stated that Mr. Finbar has an undergraduate degree in engineering along with appraisal courses he has taken on his own and that the town has paid for over the years.

    Frank Russo, Parkside Drive, stated that in 2009 the total salary of the Real Property Appraiser Technician with overtime, vacation, etc. was $69,583.84. In the 2009 budget, it was budgeted for $38,256. Mr. Russo stated that this was a friends and family appointment and the job was never posted. It started as a temporary, seasonal clerk position for $6.90 per hour, and then last year when he didn’t score high enough on the civil service test the Town Board changed the title of the position. Mr. Russo did not agree with changing a title for a position if an individual does not score high enough on the civil service test.

    Councilwoman Meegan stated that the employee has been receiving out of title pay since the previous Real Property Appraiser retired.

    Supervisor Piotrowski noted that by changing the title it will actually reduce the salary because he will not be receiving out of title pay.

    Mr. Russo did not agree with paying an employee out of title pay if they were not qualified for the position. He also thought that if someone does not score high enough on an exam the position should be reposted and someone from the list should be hired rather than changing the title. Mr. Russo suggested that the town change their hiring practices and post job openings in the Buffalo New and on the town’s website so they get good, quality people.
    I did a quick search of the Town Board Minutes and could not find a motion authorizing out of title pay for Mr. Finbar.
    “I own I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.” – Thomas Jefferson
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  2. #2
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Civil Service Law section 61(2) provides that: "No person shall be appointed, promoted or employed under any title not appropriate to the duties to be performed and, except upon assignment by proper authority during the continuance of a temporary emergency situation, no person shall be assigned to perform the duties of any position unless he has been duly appointed, promoted, transferred or reinstated to such position in accordance with the provisions of this chapter and the rules prescribed thereunder. No credit shall be granted in a promotion examination for out-of-title work."
    “I own I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.” – Thomas Jefferson
    https://restore-representation.org/

  3. #3
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    This is what happens when you have too many "employees/townboards" too buddy buddy. They let things slide or get over looked at our expense.

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    Thumbs down a backdoor deal

    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren View Post
    Civil Service Law section 61(2) provides that: "No person shall be appointed, promoted or employed under any title not appropriate to the duties to be performed and, except upon assignment by proper authority during the continuance of a temporary emergency situation, no person shall be assigned to perform the duties of any position unless he has been duly appointed, promoted, transferred or reinstated to such position in accordance with the provisions of this chapter and the rules prescribed thereunder. No credit shall be granted in a promotion examination for out-of-title work."
    Dan
    I heard this is an element of a backdoor deal, Pinnavia, Walsh (Shelia’s relative) and Boldt were told to take early retirement and the WS Town Board would hire them back part time. A great government gig, full retirement and a part time job, who would not want that, ˝ the work, twice the pay.
    Lets wait and see.

  5. #5
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Currently a person who retires with a public pension can earn up to $30,000.00 per year without it affecting their pension. If they earn more than that without obtaining a waiver then their retirement payments will be suspended.

    However they must still pass and be reachable on a civil service list in order to be eligible for appointment to even a part-time position.
    “I own I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.” – Thomas Jefferson
    https://restore-representation.org/

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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    This is what happens when you have too many "employees/townboards" too buddy buddy. They let things slide or get over looked at our expense.
    But you never hear/read about DtWarren mentioning anything about this at the town board meeting, nothing ever about the patronage or out of control salaries, always about policies, etc. Why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wnyfuture View Post
    But you never hear/read about DtWarren mentioning anything about this at the town board meeting, nothing ever about the patronage or out of control salaries, always about policies, etc. Why?
    WNY Future - I cannot answer your question, but I have one for you ... since you are throwing stones at DTW, can I assume that you are the voice of the people at the WS Town Board meetings?

  8. #8
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by wnyfuture View Post
    But you never hear/read about DtWarren mentioning anything about this at the town board meeting, nothing ever about the patronage or out of control salaries, always about policies, etc. Why?
    I thought he does. Policies or the lack of following policies is what causes the crap we hear about in the news. Here is an example. If a few of your family members were working in the town and you were in the supervisory position would you over look their incompetence? Be honest now.

  9. #9
    Member mnb811's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orchardpark View Post
    Dan
    I heard this is an element of a backdoor deal, Pinnavia, Walsh (Shelia’s relative) and Boldt were told to take early retirement and the WS Town Board would hire them back part time. A great government gig, full retirement and a part time job, who would not want that, ˝ the work, twice the pay.
    Lets wait and see.
    The City of Lackawanna recently did this with three people their city clerk and 2 dispatchers. I cannot believe these guys get away with this crap. They should not get a pension unless they are "retired" permanently!

  10. #10
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    I think something like this happened in the cheektowaga clerk department. The woman who got elected wanted her friend hired so they pushed someone out and said to retire.. Then that woman retires and works part time collecting an hourly fee. I wonder what it totals out to.

  11. #11
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wnyfuture View Post
    But you never hear/read about DtWarren mentioning anything about this at the town board meeting, nothing ever about the patronage or out of control salaries, always about policies, etc. Why?
    Perhaps at times you are not listening or do not want to hear and other times action is louder than words.

    Currently I am suing the town over the improper and unlawful use of provisional employees (the County and State are also defendants). I am sure you know about this lawsuit since it is the very same one that challenged the effective date of the downsizing vote (See http://www.speakupwny.com/forums/sho...01&postcount=1 ).

    I have also communicated with the members of the Town Board on this and other topics.

    Since we are attempting to discern what each other does and do not do, what have you done?
    “I own I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.” – Thomas Jefferson
    https://restore-representation.org/

  12. #12
    Member mnb811's Avatar
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    The state needs to save money by keeping these people out once they are gone. Lackawanna for instance has former workers/department heads who are now part time. These are the following instances:

    Head of Department of Public Works: Retired Corrections Officer, Retired Head of Department of Public Works now "part time department of Public Works head. Also job position was changed because you orginally had to have an engineering degree. He doesn't. He was the mayors friend and former 3rd Ward councilman so they changed the charter for him.


    Comptroller: retired but rehired as "Part -Time" Comptroller. Furthermore don't expect him to give you any answers or attend any council meetings because the city attorney says "I've been over this before. He's a part time employee he doesn't have to attend council meetings or answer questions." This answer was given into response to the "hated " Ms. Haxton asking about budget issues. That is one of the main reasons these guys went after her. To many good honest questions.

    City Clerk: Retired this year with state incentive but now rehired as "Part Time" Clerk. She apparently doesn't have to do council meetings anymore as the "deputy" has been doing it.

    Dispatchers: Both retired after many years of service with state incentive than rehired for same job. Part time. Go figure.

    City Attorney: Gets almost 90 grand a year but contracts to outside law firms practically all his cases. Why not eliminate this position and just go with the law firm. He works part-time also no matter what anyone at city hall tells you! How can you operate a law practice and work for the city "full time."?????

    Norm Polanski Mayor ran against John Kuryak as a "full time" mayor vs Kuryak who wanted to be part time. Polanski stated at the time we need full time service as mayor and in the city as a whole. Then he puts all his friends and family on as part time. Go figure!!!!!

    Don't you think there is a problem here? I think so. You wonder why our taxes keep going up. Triple and double dipping are serious problems that are never looked at by anyone in government because friends and family are taken care of while the people they represent are thrown under a bus!
    Last edited by mnb811; December 14th, 2010 at 08:17 PM.

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    Correct me if i am wrong but did this just not happen with Judge Scott. Retire and then want to be rehired part time temporarily

  14. #14
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Judge Scott's situation was slightly different in that his resignation created a vacancy in an elected judicial position, therefore the only legal subsequent appointment could have been until someone was elected to fill the vacancy. The Town Board could not agree on a person to appoint at the time of his resignation, they then tried to appoint him for one week. Judge Scott went to court and the judge ruled that the appointment was not one week but until a newly elected judge could be seated.
    “I own I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.” – Thomas Jefferson
    https://restore-representation.org/

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