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Thread: Over 18 million gallons of water pumped into Ellicott Creek in Lancaster = floods !

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Over 18 million gallons of water pumped into Ellicott Creek in Lancaster = floods !

    Ask the Town Board about the permit given yearly to Buffalo crushed Stone on Wehrle Drive.

    Buffalo Crush stone - People seem to forget part of the reason we have saturated areas / wet lands from Stony Road down/north west to areas in Williamsville and Tonawanda !

    Over 350 gallons per minute is pumped out of the stone quarry - 24/7/365 ! That water is dispersed into the area near and connected to Elliott Creek. But it keeps the "wetlands" saturated year round.

    The Town and the County agreed to move Ellicott Creek north to its current locate between Pavement and Harris Hill back in the 50's. The County agreed to "maintain the creek bed area" - on multiple occasions the Federal government offered to help fund remediation efforts - the controlling members of our Town Board decided it wasn't worth their investment of our tax dollars.

    #Flooding #BuffaloCrushedStone #LancasterTownBoard #Wetlands #EllicorrCreek #Williamsville #Tonawanda

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=buffalo+cr...14352347205380
    Last edited by 4248; June 6th, 2022 at 10:57 AM.
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  2. #2
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    When rain water from upstream gets to the Stony Road area of Ellicott Creek its already at max capacity because = over 350 gallons per minute is pumped out of the stone quarry - 24/7/365 ! That water is dispersed into the area near and connected to Elliott Creek. But it keeps the "wetlands" saturated year round.

    Sorry wrong link : this is the google earth link - lower area shows water in stone quarry and pumping area - that crosses Genesee street and goes into the "wet lands" north of Route 33
    next to the Love Joy church (east side of their property) !
    https://earth.google.com/web/search/...hAIZ6huyNUcFLA
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  3. #3
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4248 View Post
    When rain water from upstream gets to the Stony Road area of Ellicott Creek its already at max capacity because = over 350 gallons per minute is pumped out of the stone quarry - 24/7/365 ! That water is dispersed into the area near and connected to Elliott Creek. But it keeps the "wetlands" saturated year round.

    Sorry wrong link : this is the google earth link - lower area shows water in stone quarry and pumping area - that crosses Genesee street and goes into the "wet lands" north of Route 33
    next to the Love Joy church (east side of their property) !
    https://earth.google.com/web/search/...hAIZ6huyNUcFLA
    isn't 350 gallons a minute really not a lot of water in the scheme of any creek?

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    Take a sponge and place it on a plate - soak it with water - now pour a half gallon of water on top - where does the water go ?

    Take a bowl full of water and pour a half a cup of water onto it - where does the water go ?

    Recently people had to be rescued from a home and a vehicle in the Stony Roads recent flood - not the first time. They even brought in a hover craft type boat to help first respondets. At-least one home had its first floor flooded - the insurance company will only pay to replace items ruined - not labor costs to replace those items.

    If the ground is already saturated - if the creek is full - where does the water during a heavy rain go ? When the snow melts and the creeks are full - where does the water go.

    There is no storm water system in many areas of Lancaster and Depew. For over 30 years people have suffered basement and yard flooding. They dont make insurance claims so as not to increase insurance rates. Some people (like me) paid up to $4000.00 a year for flood insurance(luckily i found a better agent) !
    Last edited by 4248; June 6th, 2022 at 09:48 PM.
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  5. #5
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    Hey 4248:

    I would suggest you listen to the livestreamed recording of last night’s town board meeting as the Ellicott Creek flooding was discussed at length – from a report given by town engineer Ed Schiller at the 26:30 mark, and later by several residents addressing the board at the closing public comment session.

    Schiller reported that a few years ago the DEC completed a study of Ellicott Creek’s flooding issues from Alden to Williamsville. FEMA issuing a grant to municipalities (Phase Implementation Grant) to cover 90% of design and corrective action measures. Total cost of project grant $7.2 million.

    The design phase cost is $200,000, Lancaster cost, $20,000. The town could move forward on the project or say they like the design but can’t afford to move forward. The project would entail expanding the creek and releasing water at a controlled rate.

    Residents were quite vocal, and spot on, relating the flooding issues they have been encountering for years – soil erosion and land loss, threat to homes and structural damage, closing Stony Road and the adverse impacts of doing so, and where the flooding events are increasing in frequency and severity.

    It appears the town is committed to this project. Long overdue!

  6. #6
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4248 View Post
    Take a sponge and place it on a plate - soak it with water - now pour a half gallon of water on top - where does the water go ?

    We are not referring to sponges on plates...

    We are talking about a creek.

    What would sound worse in the scheme of things would be....

    Instead of saying "Over 350 gallons per minute is pumped out of the stone quarry"

    Or say

    "Over 21,000 gallons per hour is pumped out of the stone quarry"

    But then again how many gallons flow through the creek?

    I found this on Cayuga Creek

    https://snoflo.org/report/flow/new-y...-lancaster-ny/

    This site will let us convert cfs to gallons per minute etc...

    https://www.convertunits.com/from/cu...ons+per+minute

    I see 166 cfs 24 HR Flow Prediction. The link below tells me that is 74505 Gallons per minute.

    Max recorded flow rate was 18,000 cfs. Wow. That would be 8,078,961 gallons per minute.


    So 350 gallons per minutes would be .77 CFS

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    If 350 gpm seems like a lot to you, take a look at what a development dumps into a creek.

    Windsor ridge south dumps roughly 35 million gallons per year into slate bottom creek. That's about a million gallons per acre, on average.
    Rinse and repeat for every single house in the area.

  8. #8
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    I am merely showing that there was concessions made and the creek was rerouted. Then we have more water being pumped into a saturated area - not directly into the creek !

    Its a situation that could be corrected and the County guaranteed to take care of issues arising from relocation of that creek. Why is the stone quarry not made to stop pumping during high water cycles to help decrease flooding ?

    Yes, we can dance with the numbers - we can say the damage is minimal because it doesn't intrude on our lives. Doesn't every tax payer deserve equal consideration ? Shouldn't government be responsible for situations they approve of and help create ?

    Just askin - yes I live on Stony Road.
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  9. #9
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaksplat View Post
    If 350 gpm seems like a lot to you, take a look at what a development dumps into a creek.

    Windsor ridge south dumps roughly 35 million gallons per year into slate bottom creek. That's about a million gallons per acre, on average.
    Rinse and repeat for every single house in the area.
    Roughly 4000 gallons an hour.

    Windsor ridge south

    35,000,000 / 365 = 95,890 gallons per day / 24 hours = 3,995 gallons per hour.

    Buffalo Crush stone

    350 gallons per min X 60 minutes = 21,000 gallons per hour.

    21,000 gallons per hour X 24 = 504,000 per hour X 365 days = 183,960,000 gallons per year.


    That's a lot of water.

  10. #10
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    The Buffalo crushed stone site on Wehrle is about 750 acres.

    From the average rainfall they get 794 million gallons at that site.

    All that water has to go somewhere.

  11. #11
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    If Buffalo Crush stone was forced to close who would fill their niche? Where would the stone etc come from?

  12. #12
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    We'd have one hell of a town pool.

    Gernatt sells stone as well as several others around.

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