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Thread: Buth Who Was Right---Rudy Guliani or Ron Paul?

  1. #1
    Member Habermill's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Buth Who Was Right---Rudy Guliani or Ron Paul?

    Pat Buchanan hits the nail right on the head with his assessment of the Republican debate in South Carolina. The liberal Rockefeller Republican majority wing want no part of Republican conservative Rep. Ron Paul. Even Rockefeller Republican party "shill" Sean Hannity was startled with the results from the on-line poll.

    But Who Was Right -- Rudy or Ron?
    By Patrick J. Buchanan

    Posted: 05/18/2007
    It was the decisive moment of the South Carolina debate.

    Hearing Rep. Ron Paul recite the reasons for Arab and Islamic resentment of the United States, including 10 years of bombing and sanctions that brought death to thousands of Iraqis after the Gulf War, Rudy Giuliani broke format and exploded:

    "That's really an extraordinary statement, as someone who lived through the attack of 9-11, that we invited the attack because we were attacking Iraq. I don't think I have ever heard that before, and I have heard some pretty absurd explanations for Sept. 11.

    "I would ask the congressman to withdraw that comment and tell us what he really meant by it."

    The applause for Rudy's rebuke was thunderous -- the soundbite of the night and best moment of Rudy's campaign.

    After the debate, on Fox News' "Hannity and Colmes," came one of those delicious moments on live television. As Michael Steele, GOP spokesman, was saying that Paul should probably be cut out of future debates, the running tally of votes by Fox News viewers was showing Ron Paul, with 30 percent, the winner of the debate.

    Brother Hannity seemed startled and perplexed by the votes being text-messaged in the thousands to Fox News saying Paul won, Romney was second, Rudy third and McCain far down the track at 4 percent.

    "I would ask the congressman to ... Tell us what he meant," said Rudy.

    A fair question and a crucial question.

    When Ron Paul said the 9-11 killers were "over here because we are over there," he was not excusing the mass murderers of 3,000 Americans. He was explaining the roots of hatred out of which the suicide-killers came. |

    Lest we forget, Osama bin Laden was among the mujahideen whom we, in the Reagan decade, were aiding when they were fighting to expel the Red Army from Afghanistan. We sent them Stinger missiles, Spanish mortars, sniper rifles. And they helped drive the Russians out.

    What Ron Paul was addressing was the question of what turned the allies we aided into haters of the United States. Was it the fact that they discovered we have freedom of speech or separation of church and state? Do they hate us because of who we are? Or do they hate us because of what we do?

    Osama bin Laden in his declaration of war in the 1990s said it was U.S. Troops on the sacred soil of Saudi Arabia, U.S. Bombing and sanctions of a crushed Iraqi people, and U.S. Support of Israel's persecution of the Palestinians that were the reasons he and his mujahideen were declaring war on us.

    Elsewhere, he has mentioned Sykes-Picot, the secret British-French deal that double-crossed the Arabs who had fought for their freedom alongside Lawrence of Arabia and were rewarded with a quarter century of British-French imperial domination and humiliation.

    Almost all agree that, horrible as 9-11 was, it was not anarchic terror. It was political terror, done with a political motive and a political objective.

    What does Rudy Giuliani think the political motive was for 9-11?

    Was it because we are good and they are evil? Is it because they hate our freedom? Is it that simple?

    Ron Paul says Osama bin Laden is delighted we invaded Iraq.

    Does the man not have a point? The United States is now tied down in a bloody guerrilla war in the Middle East and increasingly hated in Arab and Islamic countries where we were once hugely admired as the first and greatest of the anti-colonial nations. Does anyone think that Osama is unhappy with what is happening to us in Iraq?

    Of the 10 candidates on stage in South Carolina, Dr. Paul alone opposed the war. He alone voted against the war. Have not the last five years vindicated him, when two-thirds of the nation now agrees with him that the war was a mistake, and journalists and politicians left and right are babbling in confession, "If I had only known then what I know now ..."

    Rudy implied that Ron Paul was unpatriotic to suggest the violence against us out of the Middle East may be in reaction to U.S. Policy in the Middle East. Was President Hoover unpatriotic when, the day after Pearl Harbor, he wrote to friends, "You and I know that this continuous putting pins in rattlesnakes finally got this country bitten."

    Pearl Harbor came out of the blue, but it also came out of the troubled history of U.S.-Japanese relations going back 40 years. Hitler's attack on Poland was naked aggression. But to understand it, we must understand what was done at Versailles -- after the Germans laid down their arms based on Wilson's 14 Points. We do not excuse -- but we must understand.

    Ron Paul is no TV debater. But up on that stage in Columbia, he was speaking intolerable truths. Understandably, Republicans do not want him back, telling the country how the party blundered into this misbegotten war.

    By all means, throw out of the debate the only man who was right from the beginning on Iraq.

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    Member run4it's Avatar
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    Because Buchanan certainly has the pulse of the American people!

    Of course, he did win the New Hampshire primary back in 1996...
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

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    Member raoul duke's Avatar
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    Ron Paul is no TV debater. But up on that stage in Columbia, he was speaking intolerable truths. Understandably, Republicans do not want him back, telling the country how the party blundered into this misbegotten war.

    By all means, throw out of the debate the only man who was right from the beginning on Iraq.
    qft.

    ron paul is nuts, as is patty-b in my book. though both are "smart nuts." not "authoritarian nuts" like the other nine candidates came across as when they were one-upping each other to prove who would be more willing to commit war crimes if faced with an implausible scenario. they're a priceless bunch...
    One beautiful thing about having a government of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations is that every disaster is measured in terms of economic loss. It's sort of like getting your arm sheared off in a car accident and thinking, "Damn, now it'll take longer to fold the laundry" as blood spurts from your arteries. - The Rude Pundit

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    Member DelawareDistrict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run4it
    Because Buchanan certainly has the pulse of the American people!

    Of course, he did win the New Hampshire primary back in 1996...
    The point isn't that Pat Buchanan said it, rather that Ron Paul is the only presidential candidate, of either party, to address the real causes of the war in Iraq and the hostility of Middle Easterners.
    The path is clear
    Though no eyes can see
    The course laid down long before.
    And so with gods and men
    The sheep remain inside their pen,
    Though many times they've seen the way to leave.

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    Member steven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run4it
    Because Buchanan certainly has the pulse of the American people!

    Of course, he did win the New Hampshire primary back in 1996...
    I voted for him.
    “if you’ve got health insurance, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you.”
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    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelawareDistrict
    The point isn't that Pat Buchanan said it, rather that Ron Paul is the only presidential candidate, of either party, to address the real causes of the war in Iraq and the hostility of Middle Easterners.
    The "real causes of the war in Iraq" is that Georgie Bush and his neocon allies lied to Congress and lied to the American people about the danger Saddam Hussein presented to the US in order to launch a pre-emptive attack on a country that actually posed no threat to the US.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Barden’s right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

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    Member raoul duke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    The "real causes of the war in Iraq" is that Georgie Bush and his neocon allies lied to Congress and lied to the American people about the danger Saddam Hussein presented to the US in order to launch a pre-emptive attack on a country that actually posed no threat to the US.
    plus... some people in our government (namely the people we keep around to know this stuff) knew it would be a mess


    Assessments Made in 2003 Foretold Situation in Iraq
    Intelligence Studies List Internal Violence, Terrorist Activity

    By Walter Pincus
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Sunday, May 20, 2007; Page A06

    Two intelligence assessments from January 2003 predicted that the overthrow of Saddam Hussein and subsequent U.S. occupation of Iraq could lead to internal violence and provide a boost to Islamic extremists and terrorists in the region, according to congressional sources and former intelligence officials familiar with the prewar studies.

    The two assessments, titled "Principal Challenges in Post-Saddam Iraq" and "Regional Consequences of Regime Change in Iraq," were produced by the National Intelligence Council (NIC) and will be a major part of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence's long-awaited Phase II report on prewar intelligence assessments about Iraq. The assessments were delivered to the White House and to congressional intelligence committees before the war started.
    One beautiful thing about having a government of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations is that every disaster is measured in terms of economic loss. It's sort of like getting your arm sheared off in a car accident and thinking, "Damn, now it'll take longer to fold the laundry" as blood spurts from your arteries. - The Rude Pundit

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    Member Habermill's Avatar
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    I voted for Pat Buchanan also and if possible, I will vote for Rep Ron Paul for President no matter what party endorses him. He is the only elected official in Washington, DC that knows what he is doing!

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    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    People should really go listen to the Ron Paul videos at youtube.com

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