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Thread: For Those Against Gay Marriage...

  1. #31
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeefan2009 View Post
    No it's not for most people. That's a common liberal knee-jerk reaction: when you're losing an argument, just call people bigots and racists.

    Pretty lame
    The truth hurts. De-Nial isn't a river in Egypt.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D View Post
    Bull manure! The "big issue with why people are against gay marriage" is homophobia.
    Bigotry, sure. Homophobia?...such an empty headed argument.


    it's stupid, but people would be more willing to go along with gay unions if they were called civil unions as opposed to marriages. Whomever is the head honcho for the gheys needs to keep that in mind...

  3. #33
    Member Yankeefan2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FisherRd View Post
    Bigotry, sure. Homophobia?...such an empty headed argument.


    it's stupid, but people would be more willing to go along with gay unions if they were called civil unions as opposed to marriages. Whomever is the head honcho for the gheys needs to keep that in mind...
    Creating BS lawsuits and overruling the will of the majority of voters (california) sure doesn't help their cause of winning over the hearts and minds, either.
    "We're the country that built the Intercontinental Railroad." --Barack Obama

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300miles View Post
    I don't understand... How does it force it on the churches? If a church is against homosexual marriage, they can simply deny them from their church... excommunicate them... whatever. If the church sets up a rule that gay marriage is not allowed, then gay couples can't join. (and why would they want to when other churches support them). The marriage is a state contract, not a religious one.
    I guess I am looking down the road, after all, we did not get here leglislatively (gay marriage) but through the courts. Why not sue a church for the "right" to have their marriage there. The slippery slope that I alluded to earlier.


    b.b.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BorderBob View Post
    I guess I am looking down the road, after all, we did not get here leglislatively (gay marriage) but through the courts. Why not sue a church for the "right" to have their marriage there. The slippery slope that I alluded to earlier.


    b.b.
    I thought you were pretty clear with what you meant, and I thought your explanation was quite easily understood. I don't understand how so many people missed it. Probably Bobophobia.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeefan2009 View Post
    I think that a reasonable argument could be made for healthcare and insurance benefits. A civil union would accomplish this.
    So, you have no problem with gays having legal unions, and getting all the benefits that come with it......but you have a problem with the name it's called? Doesn't that seem a little small-minded/shallow/petty/silly/counter-productive/feeble/lame? Pick a word - they all fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan
    it should be clear that marriage is reserved for those who can actually start a family
    I could throw you the obvious question of "what about folks that are sterile, should they not be able to marry?," but that would be too easy.
    So, I'll just ask you where it is written that marriage is reserved for those who can start a family??

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by therising View Post
    Doesn't that seem a little small-minded/shallow/petty/silly/counter-productive/feeble/lame? Pick a word - they all fit.

    Yes, it does, but I believe that's a sticking point for people on both sides of the debate. If gheys (and I don't know who they are, or who their spokesperson is) would come at this from the civil union angle, and not the marriage angle, I believe they'd be succesful almost immediately.

    What they need is a spokeperthon. Thome marketing. Perhapths a make-over!
    All kidding aside, the civil union talk is a winner for them.

  8. #38
    Member Yankeefan2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by therising View Post
    So, you have no problem with gays having legal unions, and getting all the benefits that come with it......but you have a problem with the name it's called? Doesn't that seem a little small-minded/shallow/petty/silly/counter-productive/feeble/lame? Pick a word - they all fit.
    Whoa whoa, I didn't say that I necessarily supported civil unions per se. I can see how some gays may want shared health care and insurance. I think what I have in mind is far different than what others may view as a civil union. A civil union is not a family unit, it's just a legal arrangement to profit from benefits etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by therising View Post
    I could throw you the obvious question of "what about folks that are sterile, should they not be able to marry?," but that would be too easy.
    So, I'll just ask you where it is written that marriage is reserved for those who can start a family??
    The state doesn't know if a couple is sterile, so the point is moot.

    As other posters have pointed out, marriage has come from various religious sacraments but the state has a vested interest in it. It has long existed in the eyes of the state for procreation and continuation of the species, since children are best raised (presumably) in an environment with a caring mother and father. It's not a law, so why would it be written anywhere?

    It's up to gay marriage advocates to justify creating a new institution than to try to redefine an existing one.
    "We're the country that built the Intercontinental Railroad." --Barack Obama

  9. #39
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D View Post
    Plain and simple, Lefty, f#$% the Christian Right and their homophobia.

    This country is NOT a theocracy. We don't dance to their bigoted tune.

    To be fair...

    The LGBT community is guilty of pushing an issue under false pretenses IMO. If they were truly for equal rights, they would push for Civil Unions.

    But as you so eloquently summarized their opinion, they want to f#$% the 'Christian Right' and their homophobia. Which has little to do with their rights.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by therising View Post
    So, you have no problem with gays having legal unions, and getting all the benefits that come with it......but you have a problem with the name it's called? Doesn't that seem a little small-minded/shallow/petty/silly/counter-productive/feeble/lame? Pick a word - they all fit.


    I could throw you the obvious question of "what about folks that are sterile, should they not be able to marry?," but that would be too easy.
    So, I'll just ask you where it is written that marriage is reserved for those who can start a family??
    It the same reason gay people want to be called gay and straight people straight.
    "I know you guys enjoy reading my stuff because it all makes sense. "

    Dumbest post ever! Thanks for the laugh PO!

  11. #41
    Member Yankeefan2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougles View Post
    It the same reason gay people want to be called gay and straight people straight.
    For the record, I don't want to be called anything.

    I don't want to sidetrack discussion, but why must gays feel compelled to make everyone know of their sexual preferences? I don't go around advertising my affinity for women even though I am a man.

    I never understood that.
    "We're the country that built the Intercontinental Railroad." --Barack Obama

  12. #42
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by therising View Post
    So, you have no problem with gays having legal unions, and getting all the benefits that come with it......but you have a problem with the name it's called? Doesn't that seem a little small-minded/shallow/petty/silly/counter-productive/feeble/lame? Pick a word - they all fit.
    Flip that around.

    If it is just a name...then isn't it small-minded/shallow/petty/silly/counter-productive/feeble/lame to fight so hard for it?

    Rights aside...just the name....

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeefan2009 View Post
    Whoa whoa, I didn't say that I necessarily supported civil unions per se.
    .
    Then I misunderstood you when you said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeefan2009 View Post
    Civil Unions seem to be the only legitimate argument in my opinion.
    -----

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeefan2009 View Post
    The state doesn't know if a couple is sterile, so the point is moot.
    Yeah, but if marriage should only be meant for procreating (as you say), shouldn't fertility tests be part of the marriage license application? Plus, a pledge that the couple plan to procreate??

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan
    As other posters have pointed out, marriage has come from various religious sacraments but the state has a vested interest in it. It has long existed in the eyes of the state for procreation and continuation of the species, since children are best raised (presumably) in an environment with a caring mother and father. It's not law, so why would it be written anywhere?
    You tell me that "It has long exsisted in the eyes of the State.....blah blah blah," yet you have no basis for it.
    It's up to gay marriage advocates to justify creating a new institution than to try to redefine an existing one.
    What you're saying is "this is our institution - you guys have to come up with your own."
    Kind of like voting was their institution, until blacks and women were allowed in. You looking to prolong exclusion as long as possible. The old "it's always been that way" argument just doesn't fly anymore.

    If want, you can long for the good old days - when girls were girls, men were men, coloreds couldn't vote, and kids died of polio.

  14. #44
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    I think 35% of it is about equality for gays. 65% is about wanting to be accepted. You can't legislate acceptance.

    I pulled those numbers from NBR's ass. yes, we're to be married soon.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by therising View Post
    If want, you can long for the good old days - when girls were girls, men were men, coloreds couldn't vote, and kids died of polio.
    I can't be sure, but those were better, simpler times. The real problem as I see it is that we let women have a say.

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