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Thread: Is National Security really THAT important to the US Federal Government?

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    Member FMD's Avatar
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    Exclamation Is National Security really THAT important to the US Federal Government?

    I have brought this up before in other threads... People like to point to agencies such as the US Customs, Border Patrol, the Coast Gaurd... Dept of Homeland Security...

    Our govt likes to toot its own horn regarding national security and uses that excuse to violate a persons privacy before boarding an airplane... using technologies online that track where a person goes online... uses technology to snoop on americans that are supposedly a threat to the security of our country.

    They also use other tactics as well... the threat to our national security was the pretense and reason, for invading two countries... one of which we completely destroyed and are now rebuilding...

    The oil spill has been used as well as a way to again, tout national security... hell we even have 2 MASSIVELY funded agencies both involved in foriegn and domestic spying on levels never imagined 50 years ago, called the CIA, and the NSA...

    all in the guise of 'national security'

    In order to go to canada one must obtain an advanced drivers license that has a whole slew of information on it, (encrypted ofcourse LOL) and you have to provide all this Bull**** documentation just to go to Canada, again, in the name of 'national security'

    and yet, every day, over 3,000 people invade our country... via two borders that are BARELY protected... the highly visible southern border with Mexico, which receives all the press coverage, and the northern border with canada which in many parts, depends upon the 'honor' system.. meaning you sign your name at the booth before entering the US... no one is there is enforce it or to check your luggage for illegal fruit... The northern border is just as bad if not worse than the southern border.... its just that the southern border its clearly documented the amount of illegal aliens invading our country, where as on the northern border, well, lets pretend that border doesnt exist...

    and our federal govt, who keeps using the excuse of national security to invoke more and more invasive laws, is now SUING a state because the state is over run with illegals because the federal govt REFUSES to protect out national borders and our national security...

    so, that really makes one wonder, does the US Govt really give a **** about national security?

    In my opinion. no.
    Willful ignorance is the downfall of every major empire in history.

    "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." - Mao, 1938

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    You touch on an interesting point.

    I believe people are willing to concede certain liberties if they are in exchange for better communities / safer environments, etc.

    Lately it seems as if people are being asked to concede these liberties with no guarantees that their concessions are going to improve their lives. In fact many times it seems that these "improvements" don't do anything to improve public safety.

    I don't the government refuses to protect national security, I don't think they're capable.

    Frankly if we took that money and used it to build business / schools improve standards of living in "terrorist" nations, that would go a lot farther than "national security" in keeping the country safe.

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    Member NBuffaloResident's Avatar
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    You have to think here: Do the benefits outweigh the draw backs?

    Without a doubt, having borders that are porous for trade and tourism are always a net gain in benefits.
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    Member Yankeefan2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post

    Without a doubt, having borders that are porous for trade and tourism are always a net gain in benefits.
    It's also a good way to let pedophiles, human traffickers, drug dealers, murderers, and rapists into our country.
    "We're the country that built the Intercontinental Railroad." --Barack Obama

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    Yes, but present measures do little to change the rates.

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    Member NBuffaloResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeefan2009 View Post
    It's also a good way to let pedophiles, human traffickers, drug dealers, murderers, and rapists into our country.
    It's like gun control. You can make all sorts of laws against things. The reality is, more laws means a drop in legal activity as well.

    We will, no matter what, always have pedophiles, human trafficking, drug dealers, murderers, and rapists. In fact, the US is really good at cultivating our own of each of those classes.
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    Member Yankeefan2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post

    We will, no matter what, always have pedophiles, human trafficking, drug dealers, murderers, and rapists. .
    Good point, might as well let as many in as we can.. u can never have enough of them, amirite???
    "We're the country that built the Intercontinental Railroad." --Barack Obama

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    Member FMD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    You have to think here: Do the benefits outweigh the draw backs?

    Without a doubt, having borders that are porous for trade and tourism are always a net gain in benefits.
    While you have a point, I can assure you that tourists from the US, arnt going to secretely cross an open desert into mexico just to avoid the wait at the border. And trade? We as a nation have set protocols that must be followed, such as checking containers for biological or radioactive materials coming into our ports.

    Our open border policy has security measures in place, however our complete LACK OF border protection both on the northern border and southern border greatly increases our national security danger.

    If our govt was so concerned about national security, and keeping america safe from terrorists, and others who to do our nation harm, it would secure our borders.

    However since our borders are everything BUT secure, it leaves me to believe that the reality of the situation is that the US Federal Govt, doesnt care. Instead, every 'security' measure put forth since 9/11 has been nothing more than a ploy to get americans more 'used to' having their liberties walked on, their rights trampled, and their privacy deeply invaded by the govt in the name of National Security.

    After all, how many billions have we as a nation wasted upon DHS? and yet both of our largest borders, are wide open.
    Willful ignorance is the downfall of every major empire in history.

    "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." - Mao, 1938

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    Member NBuffaloResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeefan2009 View Post
    Good point, might as well let as many in as we can.. u can never have enough of them, amirite???
    The only way to prevent them all from coming in is to seal our borders. That, would be economic suicide.

    This idea of "isolationism" almost got us speaking German in 1917.
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    hell we even have 2 MASSIVELY funded agencies both involved in foriegn and domestic spying on levels never imagined 50 years ago, called the CIA, and the NSA...
    For the record, the CIA was formed in 1947 and the NSA in 1952.

    Yeah we are so concerned with national security that the Obama administration is suing Arizona for it's attempts to enforce the state (an international) border, which the federal government refuses to do.

    We should look at North Korea as a role model in border enforcement.
    It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required. (Sir Winston Churchill)

  11. #11
    Member NBuffaloResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bflonum1fan View Post
    For the record, the CIA was formed in 1947 and the NSA in 1952.

    Yeah we are so concerned with national security that the Obama administration is suing Arizona for it's attempts to enforce the state (an international) border, which the federal government refuses to do.

    We should look at North Korea as a role model in border enforcement.
    Wow. Good idea Kim Jong. Let's model our military policy after theirs as well
    Raptor Jesus: He went extinct for your sins.

  12. #12
    Member Yankeefan2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bflonum1fan View Post
    For the record, the CIA was formed in 1947 and the NSA in 1952.

    Yeah we are so concerned with national security that the Obama administration is suing Arizona for it's attempts to enforce the state (an international) border, which the federal government refuses to do.

    We should look at North Korea as a role model in border enforcement.
    Amazing isn't it, that a country that is poor and and can't provide the basic necessities for it's people can secure their border. Yet America, the richest country in the world, either lacks the capacity of more likely is just too big a ***** to actually do it.

    A couple motion activated gun turrets on the southern border would do the trick I think.
    "We're the country that built the Intercontinental Railroad." --Barack Obama

  13. #13
    Member NBuffaloResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeefan2009 View Post
    Amazing isn't it, that a country that is poor and and can't provide the basic necessities for it's people can secure their border. Yet America, the richest country in the world, either lacks the capacity of more likely is just too big a ***** to actually do it.

    A couple motion activated gun turrets on the southern border would do the trick I think.
    Yep, lots of people flee from democratic nations into a totalitarian regime

    And, they don't provide basic necessities to their people... Maybe because they use those resources to secure a border (Which still isn't 100% effective).
    Raptor Jesus: He went extinct for your sins.

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    Member Mindcrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeefan2009 View Post
    Amazing isn't it, that a country that is poor and and can't provide the basic necessities for it's people can secure their border. Yet America, the richest country in the world, either lacks the capacity of more likely is just too big a ***** to actually do it.

    A couple motion activated gun turrets on the southern border would do the trick I think.
    North Korea is poor and can't provide basic necessities to it's people BECAUSE they spend all their money on military & securing the border.

    Where are they now? Still dealing with, and sometimes participating in, in those problems.
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No one is entitled to their own facts.

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    And North Korea seals its borders not to try to keep people from coming in, but to keep people from leaving...

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