Stony Rd. is a County Rd. said Supervisor Bob Giza

[4248]

Some home owners on Stony road will have 12 inch pipes installed by the Town.

For over twenty years, and longer if you believe long time area residents - Supervisor Bob Giza refused to clear road side ditch's, clear trees from the Ellicott Creek area or attempt to correct any flood related issues on or around Stony Rd..

Now it seems Mr.Chris Guck has pulled some strings.

Now that leads one to wonder:

• Just exactly who will benefit from these water pipes?
• Will they be placed on "Private Property" - "County right of way" - or
• What does Mr.Guck have to do with this? Is he the same Mr.Chris Guck who is:Vice Chair of Finance Cheektowaga Chamber of Commerce – Chris Guck ~ M & T Bank ?
• If Town workers will be used, I want mine done too!

Why didn't they state exactly who would benefit and where? If they were going to do my ditch - I'd like to know - If they don't, I also want to know why not?

[WNYresident]

is this the area where the sewer goes just about threw a creek?

[Lee Chowaniec]

is this the area where the sewer goes just about threw a creek?

You betcha!

[Lee Chowaniec]

I was at the Lancaster Town Board work session when this matter took place.

Adams Nursery has a detention pond that floods over. The problem is getting worse every year. The runoff from the pond spill is impacting several residents on Stony Road as the water seeks a way to get to Ellicott Creek.
Giza told the board that Jack (Adams Nursery) built a detention pond to catch the water and that the business uses it to water the plants. Giza said there is no more water coming off the site than before. “He just catches the water before it goes to the creek (Ellicott) a few feet away,” said Giza. “About 800 feet away,” he added.

According to Chris Guck, the problem is that the pond spills over during heavy rains. The water spills out from the pond and onto neighbors properties. Giza said he spoke with the Adams Nursery owner and the solution was to put in a stand-pipe that will keep the pond down, control the level and get the water to Ellicott Creek. “Jack (Adams Nursery) will assume the responsibility of putting the pipe in,” declared Giza. “Jack got a good price on pipe; 12 inch pipe for $4,500. Jack would put it in as he has the machinery and the manpower. Our Town Engineer would oversee the project.”

Giza said that Guck, his neighbors and he have talked about this for a number of years. “So if the board came up with the funds, Jack would put it in at his expense.”

Town Engineer Robert Harris voiced that 40 years ago the pond naturally drained itself. “We are basically getting a way to get it where it was. This would allow us to control the spill from the pond and pipe the water to the creek, thereby eliminating the flooding that is taking place for the neighboring properties.

Council Member Donna Stempniak asked whose property was involved in the 800 feet distance between the pond and Ellicott Creek. She was told by another resident (who lived there for 25 years) that the water used to drain naturally and to the south to the creek. “Over the years, the bank of the pond has risen and the north, south and east side of the bank is higher. So when any water spills out it comes south and our way. Closing the south bank would not help as water would eventually spill over anyway.”

When asked what has changed where the flooding is getting worse, Harris declared that the pond silted in and the property owner didn’t keep the channel to the south open. “It gradually silted in until we are at the stage we are in now. No one maintained that line going to the south. They wanted the water for irrigation anyway so that (maintenance) was not an issue for them.”

Giza asked the board what they wanted to do (give the $4,500 for pipe purchase). Stempniak asked if this would not be considered contributing taxpayer money for private drainage. “Aren’t we going to be setting a precedent?”She was told that this is a case where the flooding impacts not one individual but several properties; that it solves a regional problem. “It’s a benefit to the community.” The situation is fine with Adams Nursery.

“Do we have the money to do this,” asked Council Member Mark Aquino. Giza responded that the money could come from another fund and it does help a lot of people. “This would cost us $10,000 to $15,000 if we did it on our own,” said Giza. “So do we want to help Jack; actually it won’t help Jack, it will help the neighbors.

Harris cautioned that during super rains you may still get water in the back yard because the pipe is only a certain diameter. “There is always a storm bigger.”

A resident asked for the south bank of the retention pond to be filled in. That way if there is a spill over the water will be equally distributed across all properties around the pond.

Although the Lancaster Bee reported that the town was going to purchase the pipe for Adams Nursery, the work session closed with the town looking into supporting the project.

Opinion

This project may be for community well being, yet there is a fine line here as to whether this is a public or private project.

First off, the south bank of the pond should be filled in and the water spill over distributed equally over the surrounding properties. Then it should be determined whether Adams Nursery is pushing water onto neighboring properties that it legally shouldn’t.

Jack (Adams Nursery) is being held harmless here, even pictured as the good guy that doesn’t have to do anything, despite the fact that the channel to the creek has silted in over time.

Is this truly a town related drainage issue or just the town making an exception here that could open the floodgates for a lot of disgruntled homeowners who have like flooding and drainage issues caused by development around them and who will now seek out the town for redress.

There’s a tough decision to make here, But when Supervisor Giza declares that Jack (Adams Nursery) doesn’t have to do anything, I can’t go along with that.

[4248]

Did they show a map - or drawing - did they identify the homes - Mr Guck is not listed on Stony Rd.

I smell a deal!

Jack is my direct neighbor, to my east. There are two(2) ponding areas on his property neither of which are within " “About 800 feet away,” said Giza - from Ellicott Creek.

I like Jack, but the ponds at the end of his property(South end) were created by and were apart of what used to be Ellicott Creek before the Town moved it south where it is now. So in essence the Town created this problem.

If you look at the area to the east of that holding area - it was filled in by Jack - and some of it as recent as this year and last year.

Also, the area in question was removed from the most recent "FEMA Flood Plain Maps" -

so by putting in drainage pipes - along with the newly built paper road access - doesn't that change the available usage - lets say from nursery use - to a nice sub division????Now having available access from Gennessee Rd and Stony Rd. ???????

This looks like another back door deal. With the way the land slopes - mostly to the south - theres not to many people who will benefit. If they pipe the water west it will just flood across the street more(west of Stony) which now already gets 18 million extra gallons a year pumped in from the Wherle Rd Stone quarry.

Residents beware! This is tax dollars being used to aid a well connected local long time supporter. Nothing more nothing less.

In twenty plus years Supervisor Bob Giza has said, "I'd rather close Stony Rd and bulldoze the houses - we will not work on the water issues there."

Tax dollars used to benefit the chosen few.

My yard and most of my neighbors yards flood constantly - they should do them all if its a "Community Project"

B.S.

[gorja]

Originally posted by 4248:
Did they show a map - or drawing - did they identify the homes - Mr Guck is not listed on Stony Rd.

County records have Mr Guck at 381 Stony Rd.

[fiona]

is this the area where the sewer goes just about threw a creek?

through!

Threw. He threw the ball.

Through. The ball went through the window. The sewer goes through the creek.

The wrong word is used all the time on this board. Drives me nuts.

While we're at it...

Your. Your coffee is ready.

You're. You're not going to drink that are you?

and...

It's. It's a nice day out. It's not going to rain.


Its. The internet often drives me crazy because of its illiterate users.

[Lancaster wetlands]

I have seen with my own eyes and in instances where I'm sure permits were not applied for where the town has done work when they have received a Complaint.
Now if it was a favor because of pulling strings most likely I never seen anything listed at town meeting. When they cleaned out the creek by me it took an act of congress and 5 surveys with every organization in buffalo army corps,DEC, Town, Engineer, town officials and the list goes on..... It's amazing how lots go up for sale on seibert and all of a sudden the town is cleaning out the ditch and stream which I beleive is wetlands next to the school on william st.

[4248]

County records have Mr Guck at 381 Stony Rd.

He's not listed in the phone book. That helps.

Also, if thats the house Supervisor Giza was talking about. How are they going to get the water to Ellicot Creek ? 800 Feet in any direction from either pond and ther either a house or private property!

[gorja]

I thought the issues were at the south end of the pond. 381 is at the north end.

[4248]

As you can see from the map below - there is no way "800 Ft" of pipe would divert any run off - From these property's back into Ellicott Creek - except through some Else's property.

Supervisor Giza claims, "Giza said there is no more water coming off the site than before. “He just catches the water before it goes to the creek (Ellicott) a few feet away,” said Giza. “About 800 feet away,” he added. (Not true - water is added to that property in two other ways - for years they have pumped water into the nursery from portable gas pumps placed back in the woods that draw water from Ellicott Creek. Also water is brought in from the fire hydrants located on Gennessee Rd.)

He first said, (Adams Nursery)“He just catches the water before it goes to the creek (Ellicott) a few feet away,” Please show us where the Creek is?


Then Supervisor Giza added:“About 800 feet away,”
the Creek is where?

Town Engineer Robert Harris voiced that 40 years ago the pond naturally drained itself.(Forty years ago - that pond wasn't there - it was built by the present owner - FACT)

Town Engineer R. Harris said, “We are basically getting a way to get it where it was. This would allow us to control the spill from the pond and pipe the water to the creek"

Again, Ellicott Creek was moved to where it is now, some land was filled so it could be used and built on.(Progress).

Now they want taxpayers to pay to put the water back to where they diverted it from. Some believe its so the nursery can become a subdivision.

Please show me how they can get water from that pond into "Ellicott Creek" using "800 Ft. of pipe"


Once again they are county on using tax dollars by misinforming those who don't know the truth.


Obviously, I approve of anything that would eliminated some of our "Flooding" that Supervisor Giza denies ever happens.

He has refused to help Stony Rd. residents for over twenty years - whats changed?


I believe theres a bigger plan at work here then what we taxpayers are being told. I respect the Nursery owners right to developer his land. I believe thats what is coming and time will tell the whole story.

Gorga - if you could post the south portion(5799 Gennessee) it will be more obvious where the water is pumped in from. The nursery also owns the parcel just before the Topps warehouse that reaches back to the Creek.
Thanks

[gorja]

5799 Genesee Rd - south from pond to creek-

[4248]

The pond with the white dot (see photo below) - is the pond in question - I believe. That - water retention area was "Man Made" - used as a holding area for nursery water run off. The water was pumped into the nursery two ways - one was fire hydrants on Gennessee Rd.

East of the pond(to the right) you will notice two parcels between the nursery and the huge Topps warehouse location.

The first large parcel doesn't extend back to the creek - now look at the second parcel just before the warehouse. Notice it goes back to and extends past Ellicott Creek(south end). That second parcel is owned by the nursery - theres a sign on the Gennessee access area(North End) announcing its available for development.

(In the past to get water from the creek)They would place a gas powered pump and draw(draft) water from the creek - push it through aluminum pipes to about the center of the parcel. Then place pipes through the parcel in the middle - owned by the Krieger family - through to the main nursery.

The "Pond" was needed to hold the fertilizer rich run off. Millions of gallons were used to irrigate both nursery parcels.

This situation/issue is as with the pond was, man made.

Look at the picture - see the natural dark lines - they are tributary depressions - some are remnants of where Ellicott Creek used to flow. As I stated before the Creek was moved so this area could be filled and built on - houses and nursery.

History is repeating it self all over Lancaster because people of like mind have governed since the 50's(and before).

So again the taxpayers will pay to correct what Town Hall and the Developers profited from. I and others believe this is another back door attempt to make one mans property more valuable through the use of tax dollars.

1. If this was a sincere "Community" quality of life project - why hasn't it be even considered since these homes were built in the 50's?
2. Why is it a limited effort that will mainly serve a limited number of residents and one business?
3. Where exactly will this water go - where will it be piped to?
4. when the stand pipe is installed - is it going to put "Fertilizer enriched water" into our storm drains?

Once again, Supervisor Bob Giza is offering vague information on a simple project that wont be so simple.

?

1. Why no drawings
2. What about permits
3. has the DEC been notified
4. Where is the water coming from
5. where will it go
6. Who truly benefits by this use of tax dollars

?

PS - notice how over the last few years - the nursery's planting of any substance has ended or all but vanished - can you say "New Developement" ???????????????

[Lee Chowaniec]

The pond with the white dot (see photo below) - is the pond in question - I believe. That - water retention area was "Man Made" - used as a holding area for nursery water run off. The water was pumped into the nursery two ways - one was fire hydrants on Gennessee Rd.

East of the pond(to the right) you will notice two parcels between the nursery and the huge Topps warehouse location.

The first large parcel doesn't extend back to the creek - now look at the second parcel just before the warehouse. Notice it goes back to and extends past Ellicott Creek(south end). That second parcel is owned by the nursery - theres a sign on the Gennessee access area(North End) announcing its available for development.

(In the past to get water from the creek)They would place a gas powered pump and draw(draft) water from the creek - push it through aluminum pipes to about the center of the parcel. Then place pipes through the parcel in the middle - owned by the Krieger family - through to the main nursery.

The "Pond" was needed to hold the fertilizer rich run off. Millions of gallons were used to irrigate both nursery parcels.

This situation/issue is as with the pond was, man made.

Look at the picture - see the natural dark lines - they are tributary depressions - some are remnants of where Ellicott Creek used to flow. As I stated before the Creek was moved so this area could be filled and built on - houses and nursery.

History is repeating it self all over Lancaster because people of like mind have governed since the 50's(and before).

So again the taxpayers will pay to correct what Town Hall and the Developers profited from. I and others believe this is another back door attempt to make one mans property more valuable through the use of tax dollars.

1. If this was a sincere "Community" quality of life project - why hasn't it be even considered since these homes were built in the 50's?
2. Why is it a limited effort that will mainly serve a limited number of residents and one business?
3. Where exactly will this water go - where will it be piped to?
4. when the stand pipe is installed - is it going to put "Fertilizer enriched water" into our storm drains?

Once again, Supervisor Bob Giza is offering vague information on a simple project that wont be so simple.

?

1. Why no drawings
2. What about permits
3. has the DEC been notified
4. Where is the water coming from
5. where will it go
6. Who truly benefits by this use of tax dollars

?

PS - notice how over the last few years - the nursery's planting of any substance has ended or all but vanished - can you say "New Developement" ???????????????

Thanks 4248 for an excellent historical review. If all the facts are correct, and I believe they are, it strenthens my belief that the town has no obligation to spend money to make this project happen.

[4248]

I and others on Stony Rd, are glad to hear Supervisor Giza is trying to fund some flood control efforts on Stony/Hellwig Rd.


We haven't seen any work done along those lines in over twenty five years - that I know of - or any neighbor I can find.

Any news?