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Thread: Food Stamps and Why Trump is going to win again...

  1. #31
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    My two cents. I don't do a ton of grocery shopping. My wife handles the lion's share of that. Additionally, I live in and shop in Amherst, not the SNAP/Food Stamp capital of WNY by any means. Still, I have not seen the abuse discussed in the above thread.

    So we can have some facts to go with our usual wild speculation and unsupported accusations, I have discovered that the County provides the number of folks on SNAP/Food Stamps.

    Year Food Stamps/SNAP
    2007 127,446
    2008 135,826
    2009 153,336
    2010 170,424
    2011 182,695
    2012 189,379
    2013 196,662
    2014 199,924
    2015 198,410
    2016 175,824
    2017 190,768
    2018 177,185

    As per the US Census for 2018, there are 919,719 people in Erie County, therefor, in 2018, about 20% of the population was on SNAP/Food Stamps.

    I would make the argument that a handful of observations of abuse should not condemn an entire program. But, that's me.

    Please don't let facts get in the way of a tirade. Continue as per usual.
    Even as a great rock is not shaken by the wind, the wise man is not shaken by praise or by blame.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Sun View Post
    My two cents. I don't do a ton of grocery shopping. My wife handles the lion's share of that. Additionally, I live in and shop in Amherst, not the SNAP/Food Stamp capital of WNY by any means. Still, I have not seen the abuse discussed in the above thread.

    So we can have some facts to go with our usual wild speculation and unsupported accusations, I have discovered that the County provides the number of folks on SNAP/Food Stamps.

    Year Food Stamps/SNAP
    2007 127,446
    2008 135,826
    2009 153,336
    2010 170,424
    2011 182,695
    2012 189,379
    2013 196,662
    2014 199,924
    2015 198,410
    2016 175,824
    2017 190,768
    2018 177,185

    As per the US Census for 2018, there are 919,719 people in Erie County, therefor, in 2018, about 20% of the population was on SNAP/Food Stamps.

    I would make the argument that a handful of observations of abuse should not condemn an entire program. But, that's me.

    Please don't let facts get in the way of a tirade. Continue as per usual.
    The only facts you presented were enrollment numbers. You mixed those in with an unrelated anecdotal take on not seeing abuse with the caveat that you live in a wealthy area and you don't do a lot of shopping. You then try to connect the dots that other observations are just a handful and your take is more valid. Even though, again, you live in an area not likely to have SNAP users and you don't do the shopping. Are you 12? This is the type of position my 12 year old niece would take...

    If you want to show some facts that actually do disprove abuse I think everyone would be happy to discuss that. Since you likely can't, I'll share some. From 2012 to 2016, benefit fraud increased 61% and these are only the cases of fraud determined by investigations. What is being discussed here is the Trump Administration closing a loophole that has been abused by the very same organization that is responsible for investigating fraud. In other words, they would need to investigate themselves for abusing the very system they work in. Just how likely do you think that is?

  3. #33
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    Colonel, I, too, live in Amherst. I do shop and I see abuse on a weekly basis. The real point is that this is a totally unnecessary program that didn’t exist until created by Democratic Totalitarians to pander to a large portion of their base. If this program disappeared tomorrow the only consequences would be tremendous savings for taxpayers and decreases in obesity and diabetes in the minority community.

  4. #34
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Student Debt in the U.S. Reaches an All-Time High | The Daily Show



  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    Student Debt in the U.S. Reaches an All-Time High

    It's basic math.

    Syracuse University is considered one of the best schools for journalism in the US. Cuse is $69,759 if you pay full freight but shakes out to about $45,000 per year when aid is applied. Over 4 years that's $180,000 that many students take out in loans.

    With an interest rate of 4.5% and a 10 year team, you're looking at a monthly payment of $1,865 and a total interest of $43,859 over the life of the loan.

    Out of school, Journalists (if they can find employment) make around $25,000 to $30,000 out of the gate. Let's give them $30,000. If they are employed in NYS, they are looking at about $2100 a month in take home pay.

    $2,100 - $1,865 = Broke as hell.


    Now if a student tries to go cheap and picks a school like UB, they might be looking at $60,000 in debt. That's a monthly payment of $622 and total interest of $14,620. The problem here is UB is not considered a good school for journalism. So they may land a job at $25,000. That's just over $1700 a month in take home.

    $1700 - $622 = Might be enough to rent a place in a city that hires journalists but you still have not eaten yet.

    The biggest problem I see is that the value of the education is simply not there outside of some specific degrees that usually require an advanced degree. Because the left put so much focus on getting people into college under the guise that it will unlock potential, they have flooded the market to the point where they have devalued the very degree they sold millions of kids on. It's like the venezuelan bolívar.

    So how does the left solve this issue? Well they double down on stupidity. Now they want to make the degree free to the student (but freaking expensive for the taxpayer) but they will flood the market even more with useless degrees. So in the future, a bachelors will mean just as much as a high school diploma in the job market. Which is almost nothing.

    Supply and demand. It's basic f*cking economics that these idiots don't get.

  6. #36
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    It's not their money if it is more expensive. When it's not your money you don't care how costly it is. Just like property taxes. It's only 4%.... or it's only fill in the blank. They don't realize it's "only fill in the blank" year after year and after 20+ years it's obnoxious.

  7. #37
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    Handing out loans like candy gives the schools no incentive to keep costs down in order to keep enrollment. Tuition keeps going up up up, then there is the book scam where every year a new edition is out (even for stuff like Calculus 101 that hasn't changed in centuries) so your used book is now worthless
    Vote for freedom, not political parties.
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  8. #38
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Revenue stream for professors.

    Just think of the people employed with the entire food stamp system. Lots

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    It's not their money if it is more expensive. When it's not your money you don't care how costly it is. Just like property taxes. It's only 4%.... or it's only fill in the blank. They don't realize it's "only fill in the blank" year after year and after 20+ years it's obnoxious.
    It is their money. It's a loan not a gift. Unlike other loans for things like a home or a car, it's very difficult to discharge a student loan. It follows you and keeps on collecting interest. It's a racket. Just like public housing or food stamps, it is just another way for people to be indebted or reliant upon the government. But this one is worse.

    Consider that if a Bachelors degree has less value than it should, time spent in college without obtaining a degree has no value at all. Yet the cost of that time, regardless of if the student obtains a degree, incurs debt.

    Do you know the stat that the mainstream media uses in that most students have just $30,000 in student loan debt? Well there is a trick to that figure. It does not look at graduates. It looks at every student who spent any time on a collage campus taking out a loan. 30% of college freshmen drop out after their first year. Only 59% of students graduate in six years. This means millions of Americans are taking on student load debt without a diploma to show for it. The $30k figure is the average of all of these people...not just the graduates.

    Go look at any Big State University, by and large you need just a pulse to get in and with quotas it's even easier. So what do they do? They stuff 100s of freshmen into courses knowing that 30% to 50% are not going to come back after the year ends. But they get that tuition and the kid is back home with a student loan.

    Most of these dropouts are low-income, first-generation, and minority students. To them, a $10k student loan is just as difficult to navigate as a WASPs with $150k in debt. That's the racket.

  10. #40
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    You see it and other do. Why do you think many want to keep the ball rolling putting so many into debt?

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS View Post
    The only facts you presented were enrollment numbers. You mixed those in with an unrelated anecdotal take on not seeing abuse with the caveat that you live in a wealthy area and you don't do a lot of shopping. You then try to connect the dots that other observations are just a handful and your take is more valid. Even though, again, you live in an area not likely to have SNAP users and you don't do the shopping. Are you 12? This is the type of position my 12 year old niece would take...

    If you want to show some facts that actually do disprove abuse I think everyone would be happy to discuss that. Since you likely can't, I'll share some. From 2012 to 2016, benefit fraud increased 61% and these are only the cases of fraud determined by investigations. What is being discussed here is the Trump Administration closing a loophole that has been abused by the very same organization that is responsible for investigating fraud. In other words, they would need to investigate themselves for abusing the very system they work in. Just how likely do you think that is?
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonco.../#971a864f8806

    FORBES does not agree with your assessment of fraud or abuse. Where did you get your numbers from?
    Even as a great rock is not shaken by the wind, the wise man is not shaken by praise or by blame.

  12. #42
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    From the FORBES article:

    How much did fraud grow? It jumped to $592.7 million in 2016, up a staggering 61% from $367.1 million in 2012, according to data from the U.S. Department of Agriculture. (See Table 46 in the report.) The monetary figures are "Fraud Dollars Determined By Investigations." In other words, these figures are based on identified incidents. In 2016, the number of fraud investigations totaled 963,965, up more than 30% from 2012. (Side note: Almost half of those investigations were in New York State, according to the report.)

    OK, up 61% it is. WHY did you ignore the POINT here - from the same article:

    "Or put another way, 99% of the benefit dollars were in no way associated with fraud, assuming that the government is doing its job of identifying malfeasance. If the fraud figure continues to grow at the same rate, then there is a real problem, but so far not so much."

    What a load of horsecrap! You choose to ignore the 99% positive and focus on the 1% negative.

    Whine, whine, and more whine. I call bull *****.
    Even as a great rock is not shaken by the wind, the wise man is not shaken by praise or by blame.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS View Post
    It is their money. It's a loan not a gift. Unlike other loans for things like a home or a car, it's very difficult to discharge a student loan. It follows you and keeps on collecting interest. It's a racket. Just like public housing or food stamps, it is just another way for people to be indebted or reliant upon the government. But this one is worse.

    Consider that if a Bachelors degree has less value than it should, time spent in college without obtaining a degree has no value at all. Yet the cost of that time, regardless of if the student obtains a degree, incurs debt.

    Do you know the stat that the mainstream media uses in that most students have just $30,000 in student loan debt? Well there is a trick to that figure. It does not look at graduates. It looks at every student who spent any time on a collage campus taking out a loan. 30% of college freshmen drop out after their first year. Only 59% of students graduate in six years. This means millions of Americans are taking on student load debt without a diploma to show for it. The $30k figure is the average of all of these people...not just the graduates.

    Go look at any Big State University, by and large you need just a pulse to get in and with quotas it's even easier. So what do they do? They stuff 100s of freshmen into courses knowing that 30% to 50% are not going to come back after the year ends. But they get that tuition and the kid is back home with a student loan.

    Most of these dropouts are low-income, first-generation, and minority students. To them, a $10k student loan is just as difficult to navigate as a WASPs with $150k in debt. That's the racket.
    A loan given to a fresh out of high school 18 year old who was never given any kind of financial education.
    Personal finance should be a required course in high school
    Vote for freedom, not political parties.
    Politicians need to cut spending

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Sun View Post
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonco.../#971a864f8806

    FORBES does not agree with your assessment of fraud or abuse. Where did you get your numbers from?
    The U.S. Department of Agriculture.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Sun View Post
    From the FORBES article:

    How much did fraud grow? It jumped to $592.7 million in 2016, up a staggering 61% from $367.1 million in 2012, according to data from the U.S. Department of Agriculture. (See Table 46 in the report.) The monetary figures are "Fraud Dollars Determined By Investigations." In other words, these figures are based on identified incidents. In 2016, the number of fraud investigations totaled 963,965, up more than 30% from 2012. (Side note: Almost half of those investigations were in New York State, according to the report.)

    OK, up 61% it is. WHY did you ignore the POINT here - from the same article:

    "Or put another way, 99% of the benefit dollars were in no way associated with fraud, assuming that the government is doing its job of identifying malfeasance. If the fraud figure continues to grow at the same rate, then there is a real problem, but so far not so much."

    What a load of horsecrap! You choose to ignore the 99% positive and focus on the 1% negative.

    Whine, whine, and more whine. I call bull *****.
    You're a moron if you think it's 1% negative. But keep your head in the sand. Every party needs a flock of sheep.

    All that is being said here is that there is abuse and fraud and that the abuse and fraud should be removed. It's more than 1% but even if 1%...that should not exist. That's like a police force that stops policing because they get the crime rate down to 1%. It doesn't work like that.

    The problem with the system is people like you. You are fine with abuse because you just can't be bothered or you benefit from the corruption.
    Last edited by leftWNYbecauseofBS; August 8th, 2019 at 04:03 PM.

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