To all the Lancaster Airport “You should have known better” naysayers

[gshowell]

Once again, Chowaniec hits it out of the park. The Lancaster Airport issue is far more complex than a simple "NIMBY", "They Should Have Known Better", issue.

As far as development in Lancaster goes, this entire issue is proof positive that, "You can't help stupid."

With all the vacant land that was once available in Lancaster, you can't help wonder how those in charge of the Town's growth could have made such a colossal blunder.

[nogods]

Yep, next they'll be complaining that the town of Alden allows a county prison too near Lancaster.

[Lancaster Resident]

Once again, Chowaniec hits it out of the park. The Lancaster Airport issue is far more complex than a simple "NIMBY", "They Should Have Known Better", issue.

As far as development in Lancaster goes, this entire issue is proof positive that, "You can't help stupid."

With all the vacant land that was once available in Lancaster, you can't help wonder how those in charge of the Town's growth could have made such a colossal blunder.

Lee’s most recent article, and his series of previous articles, should give Lancaster residents an appreciation of how big of a blunder letting this airport expand in Lancaster has been, and will be if continued. Still, there is always a subgroup of people who are quick to use clichés and put forward opinions that are not based upon facts. The person that wrote to Lee and stated that the Nichter Rd new builds on the lake made the quarry operation leave appears not to have done his/her homework before making that statement. I checked this with one of the first few new build residents that he/she is referring to. They informed me that this statement is incorrect. The people in these new builds never did anything to make the quarry operation leave. It simply shut down because the quarry company had completed the mining of the stone etc that was available, so this quarry had been milked out. The land has been for sale for some time as result. Perhaps the cliché “you can’t help stupid” should be replaced with “you can’t help ignorant” to apply to individuals that give opinions that are derogatory to their fellow residents without checking their facts first. The Lancaster airport situation requires a careful analysis of the facts to come to a valid position and then to take the necessary action----SACL and their supports have done that. This is not a situation that can be captured accurately in a cliché or an off the cuff remark such as are put forth by some individuals.

Lee points out that the Lancaster airport is getting a new assessment of about $1.6 million, and they are complaining about it. Consider that they have done about $10 million in airport upgrades with taxpayer dollars (FAA and NYS) so their assessment at less than 20% of what was spent on upgrades with our money seems very low. Imagine one of us residents complaining to the town if we were assessed at only 20% of what we paid for our home! Add to that the airport’s continuous requests for more IDAs and sales tax exemptions based upon the argument that they need it because they can’t afford to pay. Do you think that any resident that is unable to pay their property taxes should be able to go to the town and say I will only pay less than 20% of my property taxes, and no sales tax in town, because I can’t afford to pay more. Add to that the fact that the airport serves mostly non-Lancaster resident hobby pilots, provides no jobs, reduces the quality of life and property values for nearby residents, and you can start to see what a big mistake this has been. As Lee points out if that land were occupied by business that fit in Light Industrial zoning (and provide real jobs) then the town would benefit from hundreds of thousands of dollars in tax revenue vs. the paltry amount this airport pays relative to the upgrades that are there. Basically, we Lancaster residents, and other Lancaster business’s, are further subsidizing the airport by not getting the tax revenue that that land could have produced. The Lancaster airport is an example of “corporate welfare gone wild”!

Lee also mentions if the Lancaster Zoning Board of Appeals renders an opinion that blocks further expansion of the airport then the funds used to buy the E&E land would need to be repaid to the FAA/State that provided the funds for the purchase. I am not sure if this is correct. Even if the airport does not extend their runway into the E&E land they purchased the land is still valuable for the airport to own. Their ownership of this land prevents anyone else from constructing buildings at the end of their current runway, thereby adding to the safety of the airport. So that land purchase was beneficial to the airport, even without an expansion, so they could make a case that it should therefore not need to be repaid.

Gshowell correctly points out that the Lancaster airport expansion has been a colossal blunder. Allowing it to further expand would be totally irresponsible and an even bigger travesty for our town. We can only hope that the Lancaster Zoning Board of Appeals, and our Town Board, will be honorable enough to support the residents they are supposed to be looking out for and do the right thing this time. They should prevent any further expansion of this airport and do whatever is possible to mitigate the damage the airport has already done to the residents. Otherwise this airport will become a colossal mistake legacy that will reflect very negatively on the current town officials long into the future. A great leader is remembered not only for what they did right, but also for what they did to fix the mistakes they have made. Does Lancaster have any great leaders that will be remembered as such in the future?

[therising]

Whatever happened to that challenge against the zoning?

[gorja]

It was adjourned until this coming Thursday (5/13) at 8.

[4248]

"They(New Home Buyers) should have done their home work before buying in Lancaster."

"If we (Town Board) listened to the residents, nothing would have been built."

"Its their land, we (Town Officials) can't stop them."

"They could sue us if we (Town Board) stop them."

"I like airplanes(Supervisor B.Giza) I'm a hands on kinda guy."

"We (Town Officials) went to their(Lancaster Air-Strip) free VIP Dinner and they were nice to us"

"The Air-strip helps support our Town(Campaign Money)."

"We (Town Board) had nothing to do with this expansion" -

What they wont say : The Town Government just helped arrange "Receiver status", assisted in Federal Funding and IDA Chairman/Town Supervisor B.Giza helped arrange tax breaks and other funding!

The Building Inspector didn't notice it was zoned incorrectly. They approved new homes being built in the flight paths and forgot to show a picture to the west of the runway that included a raised road and a warehouse!

One can only hope the FAA and other Federal Agency's will become a bit more pro-active.

If the zoning Board of Appeals lets this slide, I wounder if the building inspector can be sued for dereliction of his duties?

I also noticed in this years Town Budget, the tax payers are now paying for increased "Bonding" for elected and appointed officials.

We pay their salaries, benefits and now we pay to bond them so if and when they are ever held accountable - they wont have to worry, because we paid to insure them.

Taxpayers are also paying for Town Appointed Lawyers to fight the taxpaying residents

Gotta love local Government!

[gorja]

Originally posted by 4248:
Taxpayers are also paying for Town Appointed Lawyers to fight the taxpaying residents

This pit bull is the town's hired gun for the zoning hearing. Bet his services don't come cheap.

Attachment 3035

http://hrpdf1.hodgsonruss.com/ReportEngine/BiographyReport.aspx?par:@intIdent=42

[TTDeathInLan]

No disrespect to SAC, but this whole mess should have started with IAC,
(INTELLIGENT AIRPORT COALITION). And ended with IAC.

We all know IAC, they have been around for quite sometime. Their the folks who gave us uncontrolled growth, destruction of wetlands, traffic problems, drainage issues, subsidizing developments, pilots,(no pun intendend), no clawback clauses, ETC. ETC. ending with DUMB, DUMBER, AND DUMMEST.

These are the folks that Special Education was created for. You know, to learn things such as:

NIMBY
NEGATIVE DECLARATION
NEGATIVE DECLARATION
NEGATIVE DECLARATION
YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER
THIS IS THE FIRST THAT I"M HEARING ABOUT IT
I WASN'T AWARE OF A PROBLEM
SOMEONE WILL LOOK INTO IT
IT'S A COUNTY WATER ISSUE
IT'S A COUNTY HIGHWAY ISSUE
IT'S A COUNTY TRAFFIC SIGNAL ISSUE
IT'S A COUNTY SEWER ISSUE
ETC.
And finally, IT'S A FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION ISSUE.

[shortstuff]

Last week, I was out and about talking to people around who where impacted by the airport. I came across a family that lives in the flight path and they said something that had an impact on me. This person said,"We never realized how much this airport has affected our lives until they started flying directly over my home." This person's emotions when they were expressing their feelings on how this airport has affected their lives, affected me. They said,"The planes fly so close over my home, this is my home and they are violating our quality of life. I am not O.K. with this as a taxpayer for a hobbiest pilot to fly over my home and have an adverse impact on our lives."

This person was duly upset and angry.

Lee good article, as always.

[4achange]

Last week, I was out and about talking to people around who where impacted by the airport. I came across a family that lives in the flight path and they said something that had an impact on me. This person said,"We never realized how much this airport has affected our lives until they started flying directly over my home." This person's emotions when they were expressing their feelings on how this airport has affected their lives, affected me. They said,"The planes fly so close over my home, this is my home and they are violating our quality of life. I am not O.K. with this as a taxpayer for a hobbiest pilot to fly over my home and have an adverse impact on our lives."

This person was duly upset and angry.

Lee good article, as always.

For personal reasons I have not activly participated in either the public or private discussions regarding the Lancaster airport. I have fought issues in this town, particularly the subject of low water pressure. I also had a run in with a totally useless soon to retire senator, whos smartest solution was to finally leave.

This subject has come to the point with me again after reading the above.
Here is 100% the bottom line! I have lived on Westwood rd for 25 years. I was here long before homes were built on Nichter. When I moved here , most of the area was still privatly owned farm and brush land waiting for homes. The Lancaster airport was here when i arrived. At that time we had small aircraft traffic from the airport. Every pilot that flew out of there basically followed the FAA regs. They flew west to Cemetery while gaining as much altitude as possible. They turned left crosswind down Cemetery and turned left downwind over what is now Westwwod park. Most were at least 800 feet in the air on the downwind. They were NEVER flying directly over homes on Westwood. We had flights, but the traffic was low in volume and did not intrude on quality of life.

Fast forward to 2010, the Lancaster Airport and flight school. What goes on out here most flying days is insane. Giza, If you think i am whining, come here and witness yourself. Or send Abraham. On a typical fly day, Westwood Rd residents experience anywhere from 5-10 flights per hour DIRECTLY over our homes. Most of these "pilots" ( very poorly instructed pilots) perform low level screaming left turn takeoffs that take them directly over Nichter at very low climb/turn altitudes. They claim they must in order to avoid BNIA traffic. That is BS. BNIA in bound traffic flys direcly through the whole down wind leg at various points. I see it all the time.

Then with power on they sound like kamikaze fighters as they scream out of a sharp left turn, going DIRECTLY OVER HOMES ON WESTWOOD from Pavement to Ransom. When they pass over my house, many times i can just about make out tail numbers so they are probably no higher than 300-400 feet.

Without a single shadow of doubt, the problem has become infinitly worse over the past 5-7 years. The main issue here is not land, IDAs and all the other completely screwed up things Giza and Co have done with this

THE MAIN ISSUE HERE FOLKS IS THE SAFETY OF THE RESIDENTS,PERIOD!
We have pilots of who knows what skill level, flying at high speed low altitude directly over homes. At that altitude and speed most of those aircraft are less than 5 seconds from point of failure to impact. WHEN YOU FLY DIRECTLY OVER HOMES YOU ARE PUTTING PEOPLES LIVES AT GREAT RISK!!!

One day (hopefully never) the following scenario will take place. With the little to no regard for safe flight operation currently displayed. some pilot will make a training mistake or have mechanical failure and we will have who knows what happen. THe odds are a nose dive or flip in will take you directly into a residence in the blink of an eye. Now imagine how expanding the airport will increase the odds of this.

The various boards in this town need to step up and do the right thing!
First, someone on the TB needs to stand up and be what you are supposed to be, AN ADVOCATE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ELECTED YOU!!!!
Since the people who run that airport are totally ignoring the safety and quality of life of the residents out here, YOU FOLKS need to STAND UP and force them to! THATS WHAT YOU WERE ELECTED TO DO!

And the zoning board, try and show some common sense, see this totally screwed up IDA/land/tax situation for what it is. Stop all expansion now. If the airport wants expansion, lets do it safely and sanely, not the insanity it has become!

In the mean time, the town should formally request the FAA begin unannounced flight operation inspections. Lets have them observe, without the airport knowing, the flight operations on a heavy fly day.

Lets do this before we have a tragedy that no one wants.

[gorja]

Just a video reminder. Do you want a 16 year old pilot distracted by moving his Iphone around to get the best camera shots flying over your kids and/or grandkids while playing ball in Westwood Park?



I sure don't.

[Lee Chowaniec]

[QUOTE=4achange;640090]

"First, someone on the TB needs to stand up and be what you are supposed to be, AN ADVOCATE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ELECTED YOU!!!!"

Here, here!

And the zoning board, try and show some common sense, see this totally screwed up IDA/land/tax situation for what it is. Stop all expansion now.

The expansion should be stopped, the funds and IDA'S cut off and let's see if the private - public use airport can make a go of it without taxpayer money. But does the ZBA have the balls to do the right thing?

[therising]

For personal reasons I have not activly participated in either the public or private discussions regarding the Lancaster airport. I have fought issues in this town, particularly the subject of low water pressure. I also had a run in with a totally useless soon to retire senator, whos smartest solution was to finally leave.

This subject has come to the point with me again after reading the above.
Here is 100% the bottom line! I have lived on Westwood rd for 25 years. I was here long before homes were built on Nichter. When I moved here , most of the area was still privatly owned farm and brush land waiting for homes. The Lancaster airport was here when i arrived. At that time we had small aircraft traffic from the airport. Every pilot that flew out of there basically followed the FAA regs. They flew west to Cemetery while gaining as much altitude as possible. They turned left crosswind down Cemetery and turned left downwind over what is now Westwwod park. Most were at least 800 feet in the air on the downwind. They were NEVER flying directly over homes on Westwood. We had flights, but the traffic was low in volume and did not intrude on quality of life.

Fast forward to 2010, the Lancaster Airport and flight school. What goes on out here most flying days is insane. Giza, If you think i am whining, come here and witness yourself. Or send Abraham. On a typical fly day, Westwood Rd residents experience anywhere from 5-10 flights per hour DIRECTLY over our homes. Most of these "pilots" ( very poorly instructed pilots) perform low level screaming left turn takeoffs that take them directly over Nichter at very low climb/turn altitudes. They claim they must in order to avoid BNIA traffic. That is BS. BNIA in bound traffic flys direcly through the whole down wind leg at various points. I see it all the time.

Then with power on they sound like kamikaze fighters as they scream out of a sharp left turn, going DIRECTLY OVER HOMES ON WESTWOOD from Pavement to Ransom. When they pass over my house, many times i can just about make out tail numbers so they are probably no higher than 300-400 feet.

Without a single shadow of doubt, the problem has become infinitly worse over the past 5-7 years. The main issue here is not land, IDAs and all the other completely screwed up things Giza and Co have done with this

THE MAIN ISSUE HERE FOLKS IS THE SAFETY OF THE RESIDENTS,PERIOD!
We have pilots of who knows what skill level, flying at high speed low altitude directly over homes. At that altitude and speed most of those aircraft are less than 5 seconds from point of failure to impact. WHEN YOU FLY DIRECTLY OVER HOMES YOU ARE PUTTING PEOPLES LIVES AT GREAT RISK!!!

One day (hopefully never) the following scenario will take place. With the little to no regard for safe flight operation currently displayed. some pilot will make a training mistake or have mechanical failure and we will have who knows what happen. THe odds are a nose dive or flip in will take you directly into a residence in the blink of an eye. Now imagine how expanding the airport will increase the odds of this.

The various boards in this town need to step up and do the right thing!
First, someone on the TB needs to stand up and be what you are supposed to be, AN ADVOCATE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ELECTED YOU!!!!
Since the people who run that airport are totally ignoring the safety and quality of life of the residents out here, YOU FOLKS need to STAND UP and force them to! THATS WHAT YOU WERE ELECTED TO DO!

And the zoning board, try and show some common sense, see this totally screwed up IDA/land/tax situation for what it is. Stop all expansion now. If the airport wants expansion, lets do it safely and sanely, not the insanity it has become!

In the mean time, the town should formally request the FAA begin unannounced flight operation inspections. Lets have them observe, without the airport knowing, the flight operations on a heavy fly day.

Lets do this before we have a tragedy that no one wants.

Best post I've ever read on this topic.

[4248]

BRAVO [quote=4achange;640090]

As Lee would say, "Spot on Mr.4achange"

Your frustrations are shared by many.

The true shame is Lancaster was and is a great place to live. Plenty of nice helpful residents, good schools.

If only the Town leaders actually worked for the tax payers instead of as one of them said, "We will work for those who support us."

One can only hope!

[ichingtheory]

For personal reasons I have not activly participated in either the public or private discussions regarding the Lancaster airport. I have fought issues in this town, particularly the subject of low water pressure. I also had a run in with a totally useless soon to retire senator, whos smartest solution was to finally leave.

This subject has come to the point with me again after reading the above.
Here is 100% the bottom line! I have lived on Westwood rd for 25 years. I was here long before homes were built on Nichter. When I moved here , most of the area was still privatly owned farm and brush land waiting for homes. The Lancaster airport was here when i arrived. At that time we had small aircraft traffic from the airport. Every pilot that flew out of there basically followed the FAA regs. They flew west to Cemetery while gaining as much altitude as possible. They turned left crosswind down Cemetery and turned left downwind over what is now Westwwod park. Most were at least 800 feet in the air on the downwind. They were NEVER flying directly over homes on Westwood. We had flights, but the traffic was low in volume and did not intrude on quality of life.

Fast forward to 2010, the Lancaster Airport and flight school. What goes on out here most flying days is insane. Giza, If you think i am whining, come here and witness yourself. Or send Abraham. On a typical fly day, Westwood Rd residents experience anywhere from 5-10 flights per hour DIRECTLY over our homes. Most of these "pilots" ( very poorly instructed pilots) perform low level screaming left turn takeoffs that take them directly over Nichter at very low climb/turn altitudes. They claim they must in order to avoid BNIA traffic. That is BS. BNIA in bound traffic flys direcly through the whole down wind leg at various points. I see it all the time.

Then with power on they sound like kamikaze fighters as they scream out of a sharp left turn, going DIRECTLY OVER HOMES ON WESTWOOD from Pavement to Ransom. When they pass over my house, many times i can just about make out tail numbers so they are probably no higher than 300-400 feet.

Without a single shadow of doubt, the problem has become infinitly worse over the past 5-7 years. The main issue here is not land, IDAs and all the other completely screwed up things Giza and Co have done with this

THE MAIN ISSUE HERE FOLKS IS THE SAFETY OF THE RESIDENTS,PERIOD!
We have pilots of who knows what skill level, flying at high speed low altitude directly over homes. At that altitude and speed most of those aircraft are less than 5 seconds from point of failure to impact. WHEN YOU FLY DIRECTLY OVER HOMES YOU ARE PUTTING PEOPLES LIVES AT GREAT RISK!!!

One day (hopefully never) the following scenario will take place. With the little to no regard for safe flight operation currently displayed. some pilot will make a training mistake or have mechanical failure and we will have who knows what happen. THe odds are a nose dive or flip in will take you directly into a residence in the blink of an eye. Now imagine how expanding the airport will increase the odds of this.

The various boards in this town need to step up and do the right thing!
First, someone on the TB needs to stand up and be what you are supposed to be, AN ADVOCATE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ELECTED YOU!!!!
Since the people who run that airport are totally ignoring the safety and quality of life of the residents out here, YOU FOLKS need to STAND UP and force them to! THATS WHAT YOU WERE ELECTED TO DO!

And the zoning board, try and show some common sense, see this totally screwed up IDA/land/tax situation for what it is. Stop all expansion now. If the airport wants expansion, lets do it safely and sanely, not the insanity it has become!

In the mean time, the town should formally request the FAA begin unannounced flight operation inspections. Lets have them observe, without the airport knowing, the flight operations on a heavy fly day.

Lets do this before we have a tragedy that no one wants.

Excellent article 4achange. I have also lived in Lancaster over 20 years and agree with you. Bottom line is, land was NEVER even zoned for an airport. All they have is a special use permit and never followed special use regulations. (I have a copy of town resolution regarding special use permit). To make matters worse, our town never once forced airport to comply with special use rules. It's now time to bring airport into compliance.