US Military Tells Jack Bauer: Cut Out the Torture Scenes ... or Else!
By Andrew Buncombe
The Independent UK
Tuesday 13 February 2007
In the hugely popular television series 24, federal agent Jack Bauer always gets his man, even if he has to play a little rough. Suffocating, electrocuting or drugging a suspect is all in a day's work. As Bauer - played by the Emmy Award winner Kiefer Sutherland - tells one baddie: " You are going to tell me what I want to know - it's just a matter of how much you want it to hurt."
But while 24 draws millions of viewers, it appears some people are becoming a little squeamish. The US military has appealed to the producers of 24 to tone down the torture scenes because of the impact they are having both on troops in the field and America's reputation abroad. Forget about Abu Ghraib, forget about Guantanamo Bay, forget even that the White House has authorised interrogation techniques that some classify as torture, that damned Jack Bauer is giving us a bad name.
The United States Military Academy at West Point yesterday confirmed that Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan recently travelled to California to meet producers of the show, broadcast on the Fox channel. He told them that promoting illegal behaviour in the series - apparently hugely popular among the US military - was having a damaging effect on young troops.
According to the New Yorker magazine, Gen Finnegan, who teaches a course on the laws of war, said of the producers: "I'd like them to stop. They should do a show where torture backfires... The kids see it and say, 'If torture is wrong, what about 24'?
"The disturbing thing is that although torture may cause Jack Bauer some angst, it is always the patriotic thing to do."
The meeting in November was arranged by Human Rights First, a non-profit organisation that has launched a campaign against torture both in the real world and on television. It says that since the terror attacks of September 11, the incidence of torture in television shows has soared. In 2000 there were 42 scenes of torture on prime-time US television while in 2003 there were 228.
The group's David Danzig said: "I think there is no question [it is having an effect]. We have spoken to soldiers with experience in Iraq who say, for young soldiers, there is a direct relationship between what they are doing in their jobs and what they see on TV... It's the same abroad.
"The image of the US and its military [being involved in torture] is being affirmed."
The show, first broadcast in November 2001, is produced by Joel Surnow, whose California office reportedly contains a Stars and Stripes that once flew over Baghdad. Mr Surnow boasts that both the military and the Bush administration are fans of his series and insists that 24 is "patriotic".
But during the fourth series of the show, broadcaster Fox was forced to air a series of public service announcements, following criticism about the series' portrayal of Muslims by the Council on American-Islamic Relations.
In addition, while Mr Surnow may not have any qualms about 24, it appears the show's main protagonist does. In a television interview last month, Sutherland said: "You torture someone and they'll basically tell you exactly what you want to hear, whether it's true or not, if you put someone in enough pain... Within the context of our show, which is a fantastical show to begin with, the torture is a dramatic device to show you how desperate a situation is."
Others point out that coercive interrogation techniques that some argue amount to torture, including the use of stress positions, military dogs and sleep deprivation, have been authorised by the highest levels of the Bush administration. Meanwhile, last year, when George Bush signed into law a piece of legislation authored by Senator John McCain to prohibit the "cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment" of prisoners, the White House issued a so-called signing statement in which it insisted the ban could be ignored if the President so authorised.
Wayne Smith, of the Unitarian Universalist Service Committee (UUSC), an international human rights group, said: "Even the FBI has confirmed executive orders authorising the use of hoods and dogs and stress positions.
"If [these things] were being done to US troops we would call it torture."
Could that be any more ridiculous? It is a shoddy PR effort by the military to cater the the bed wetting left.
Is the General going to go to "Fiddy Cent" and ask him to quit glorifying the "smakin of ho's" because the young soldiers are saying "If fiddy does it why can't we?"?
This is just stupid. We're talking about a TV show for crying out loud.
For every soldier they find that says things like "24" influence soldiers they can find 100 that say it doesn't.
Originally Posted by FisherRd
Fischer:
I would disagree.
Through repetition, ideas get integrated into subconscious thought processes which can bias ones concepts of right and wrong.
With regards to this article, not all people would be able to discern the fact that if one is tortured, that they WILL SAY ANYTHING to make that torture stop.
I would suggest you do some further research on this topic.
Qu1nn
It's not the left ignoring the Constitution to feel "safer."
Treachery made a monster out of me
So you don't think soldiers are being influenced by the torture scenes on "24?" Read Michelle Malkin, Debbie Schluessel and other talking heads on the right who praise the show and the means in which Jack Bauer uses to obtain information.
But as mentioned earlier, professional interrogators know that torture doesn't work. They say it over and over but no one listens. And most that don't point to a TV show for proof.
b.b.
WestSide,
Did the "right" invent torture in 2000? Was torture around from 1992-2000? Is torture only practiced by the US when there is a Republican in office? That would be amazing seeing as though enlistments aren't synced with Presidential terms.
Quinn,
You're right, torture doesn't work. The USA, Russia, Great Britain, Spain, France, etc have just kept it around all of these years because we're all sadists.
John McCain would disagree with you by the way. He may be against it, but he knows it works.
We don't train our military to resist it because they have nothing else better to do with their time.
BB,
Wow, Michele Malkin says something so she must speak for everyone that isn't a liberal...
I've watched all sorts of TV shows and movies before I enlisted and later became an officer. I don't remember any of my fellow soldiers being influenced by a TV show, movie, music, etc.
I am going to surmise that you believe in censoring rap artists, tv shows, movies, and free speech because we as humans are too stupid to know right from wrong, tv from reality?
It's not as if anyone is a fan of torture. Most level headed people realize it has existed since before we were born (not a republican issue or a dem issue). Most level headed people realize it's not rampant. Most level headed people know that despite the isolated incidences we read about ad nauseam (non stop front page coverage), that the US military is against it.
Of the 3 of you that replied, how many of you have spent any time in the military? By no means am I implying that you can't have an opinion on the mater, I'm just trying to see what type of perspective you have. Trust me, every soldier knows what the consequences are for stepping over the line. They are well aware that there are people out there ready to paint the entire military as mercenaries, barbarians, and torturers over the acts of a few.
No that is not what I am saying at all. The article suggests that American soldiers are being influenced by "24." Others says that is not possible, who would believe that torture works because they see it done on TV. I am only saying that I have HEARD the talking heads on television and the internet say exactly that, we need to pursue terrorists the way "Jack does..."
To your other question, yes, I served in the USAF during Ford and Carter. We never fired a shot in anger. Yes, I listened to rock music all my life and didn't grow up anti-social, my parents both smoked but I suffer no effects of second hand smoke and I traveled cross country by car before cars had seatbelts.
(grin)
b.b.
BB,
I've never fired a shot in anger either. BS peace keeping missions where I wanted to shoot somebody, but that's a different story!
I too have heard people saying "That's how we should be doing it!", but again, that's just typical. I hear people say the same thing about "The Office", "Office Space", Seinfeld, etc when daily problems arise at work.
I am of the school of thought that believes we do actually torture when necessary. I do not believe (pretty much to the point that I refuse to believe) that the military does it. Delta Force maybe, CIA definitly, but not your 82nd's, 101st's, 10th Mountain's. There are examples of soldiers doing it, but that is the rogue element that any profession has.
But I suppose you believe that there was really witches in Salem.
<< The use of torture worked out well there right? >>
I don't see how stating a countries USE of torture justifies its success?
McCain comes from a family line of traitors, and is currently in the process selling out the US but worse... he is assisting in the shredding of the constitution.
No I have not been in the military.
AND YES I actually TIVO 24 and watch it weekly and have done so since its inception.
First off I would like to state that I do NOT condone any form of torture. Thus, I find it terribly distressing when people attempt to justify its use.
The US used to be a place that was envied throughout the world for its constitutional republic (which is NOT a democracy), for its religious tolerance, its freedom of speech, ....in a generic term its righteousness...... can we still say that today?
My intent was NOT to degrade those in military but to degrade ALL SHEEPLE. I post to this forum with the hopes of getting other people to see through the deception. Once people realize the deceit (and its processes), it should becomes easier discern INTENT. Once you know the INTENT it becomes easier to figure out the truth, and it appears to me that today the TRUTH is opposite that the mainstream portrays.
And as a general side comment:
LEFT, RIGHT, Democrat, Republican, Neocon, etc.
...it is all a heap of worthless labels
qu1nn
Quinn,
Torture has been being used, both effectively and ineffectively since well before you or I were born. The USA has used it and continues to use it. All of your distressing isn't going to change anything.
"Feelings" and emotional responses don't address the fact that what the General did, and what you seemingly approve of, was censorship. It was an attempt to curb free speech and freedom of expression.
a fair statement.
Funny, I thought that we lived in a land that was based in laws.
But, maybe I am too Naive or idealistic.
Feelings have nothing to do with it, I am guided by what I perceive as right and wrong: Torture is WRONG.
I didn't really think about THIS POSTING with regards to the CENSORSHIP context, nor was it my intent. But now that you brought this up you have a point.
I have to think on this more, but I would be interested to your response to the following:
Do you think that child porn material should be pulled from the internet?
qu1nn
There is probably going to be an INCREASE in torture scenes on "24" as our culture LOVES violence.
Movies/TV shows have to keep upping the blood, guts, screams and suffering levels to keep viewers-Come on, this is FOX, the official TV station of the decider and "24" is incredibly successful Right-Wing propaganda and NOTHING MORE.
To keep the public happy, the bad men/women are tortured and this is a "good thing" according to those calling the shots on FOX-The US government.
I would PAY to see an episode of "24" in which a terrorist cell whose members include:Rush Lindbaugh, Ann Coulter, Bill O' Reilly, Tom Bauerle and a few other dozen Right-Wing Neo-Cons were TORTURED, since these "patriotic Americans" are part of this culture of hate and fear which "24" flawlessly exploits.
Almost EVERY viewer sees "entertainment" on "24" and nothing more. I see only government-sanctioned propaganda showng that its "OK" to do whatever it takes to make the world safe and although viewers might wince and avert their gaze to some torture scenes, people still LOVE watching suffering. Look at "American Idol's" mocked and rejected contestents!
TV/Movie viewers have almost become innured/used to violence, so the "pain factor" has to increase on a regular basis and "24" will only show MORE torture and OTHER TV shows/Movies will continue to "up the pain factor."
WHY do you think the movie "Hostel" did so well?
How about Jack Bauer stating a profound line:"We wouldn't have so MANY of these damned terrorists to fight if our brain-dead President didn't stir up so many hornet nests!!!"
Oops! That was "un-American" of me-Speaking my mind like some kind of subversive, evil commie with no respect for authority!!
Really? Every report I've ever seen indicated McCain didn't give up any useful information to his torturers... he recited football team lineups and other trivial information. So for you to bring him up as an example that torture works might not be a very good strategy.
Treachery made a monster out of me
He actually voted against it, before he voted for it.
He had a great chance to become president until he flipped on the torture issue...
I just love seeing a guy who stands up for what is right.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis (1935)
There are basically two questions that need to be answered when discussing torture:
1. Is it the right thing to do morally?
2. Is it effective?
The first question is something everyone needs to answer for themselves. The second, however, is more easily answered. Information obtained through torture isn't reliable. People will say or do or admit to anything to get the pain to stop, so that confession or the location of that terrorist cell headquarters might be completely false. A previous poster mentioned John McCain as an example. He proves my point for me... McCain was tortured and yet he didn't give up any useful information.
Oh, and another thing... only on speakupwny could the lefties be blamed for a conversation between the Pentagon and Fox.
Treachery made a monster out of me
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote