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Thread: Notre Dame

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    Notre Dame

    Is there a more overrated overhyped sports franchise anywhere on Earth than Notre Dame football? By halfway through the third period Clemson was suiting up kids from the Clemson rooting section or they could’ve scored 60. If Notre Dame didn’t get its standard two drives a game where it’s offense is escorted down the field by the officials through penalty flags on the defense it would’ve looked even uglier.

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    I agree with you but to be fair.
    Clemson does have the second best team in college this year.
    They could have beaten the Bills, Jets and Giants this year.







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    Clemson is a good team for sure. But no way is Notre Dame among the top 4 teams in the country. The problem is that, by putting a team in the final 4 that has no business being there, that team’s opponent gets what amounts to a walkover. Clemson is playing the water boys in the 3rd quarter but Alabama & Oklahoma are engaged in a battle to the end risking injury to starters etc because they have real competition.

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    Notre Dame is 4-21 against teams ranked #5 or above in the last 25 years. It hasn’t won one of the big six “New Years” bowl games in 25 years. Under their bloated, overrated a-hole coach, Brian Kelly, they are 0-3 in big six bowl games and have been cumulatively outscored in them 116-45. Because Notre Dame is independent it basically gets to pick its own schedule and avoids the necessity of playing conference opponents and avoids having to play a conference championship game. This gives it an extra week of rest and practice at season’s end and it’s post-season record is still putrid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    Is there a more overrated overhyped sports franchise anywhere on Earth than Notre Dame football? By halfway through the third period Clemson was suiting up kids from the Clemson rooting section or they could’ve scored 60. If Notre Dame didn’t get its standard two drives a game where it’s offense is escorted down the field by the officials through penalty flags on the defense it would’ve looked even uglier.

    Looking at the 1st, 3rd and 4th quarter you have a 10-3 game. In the 2nd Notre Dame was without their All American CB, their best safety and their best edge rusher. During this time Clemson scored on 3 long passing plays.

    The difference between ND and schools like Alabama, Clemson or Ohio State is depth. Right now in CFB there are a few super power programs. Programs that cheat, both with performance drugs and player payments and programs that treat football players like professionals rather than students.

    When 3 unconnected players who are not friends for Clemson got busted for using the same PED...Dabo said golly shucks it must be a mistake. The cheating, which is team wide, was not even a story. The NCAA is going to do nothing. When Alabama and Ohio State players get paid in the open the NCAA does nothing.

    On the other side a few years ago a student tutor for Notre Dame who was dating a player helped a little too much. What did ND do? What they always do. Shoot themselves in the foot. They self report to the NCAA and have vacate 12 wins from the 2012 season.


    Notre Dame is THE best college football program in the US. They actually are what a college football program is. Schools like Clemson, OSU and Bama are NFL minor leagues. They cheat and only care about the money. Just look at the graduation rates at ND and the other schools.


    ND has fans because of their history. ND has fans because of how they treat their players as students. The fans of schools like Clemson, OSU and Bama are just there for the football product. Has nothing to do with being overrated.

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    Leftie, looking at the 3rd and 4 quarters, Clemson took its foot off the gas or it could’ve rung up 60. It’s back up qb in the game, substituting very freely etc. And while I’ve heard all the bleating about the injured cornerback, Notre Dame couldn’t move the football for squat and that was a constant. Other than with agents of Notre Dame and it’s fans, it’s been just about universally acknowledged that ND had no place in the final four. Notre Dame loves to trot out its academics and its fans make excuses when they help their “ student athletes” “ a little too much” as if cheating by Notre Dame is just a big misunderstanding and the school is being persecuted. You know, there are those who feel that Notre Dame has gotten away with murder over the year. When Lou Holts was the coach there you could smell their football program a mile away.

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    Leftie, Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, Clemson, Syracuse etc etc all have loyal fan bases because of their histories. That’s nothing unique or special about Notre Dame. And their constant blather suggesting that the school is somehow not in it for the money but for some “higher purpose” makes me double over with laughter. They ring every buck they can out of it, including an exceedingly lucrative tv contract, leasing out their “iconic” stadium to the NHL for an outdoor hockey game and peddling everything but the toilet paper in the locker room as souvenirs. Is “Touchdown Jesus” going to be rebranded as “Penalty Shot Jesus” for tomorrow’s hockey game?

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    I looked at the graduation rates for the football teams at Clemson and Alabama in 2017. Clemson was 85%, Alabama was 84% and I believe that ND was 87%. Of course, then the ND faithful always fall back on the argument that degrees from other schools are jokes and only an ND degree is worth anything or contains “academic rigor”. This a silly argument and one that it’s easy and fun to make because it’s virtually unverifiable in an objective way but it gives the maker a warm sense of superiority. And it’s a good thing ND’s fan loyalty isn’t based on the way Kelly treats the student AV staff...but then again, who cares about that as long as Kelly has film of team practice. The school certainly didn’t seem to care much a few years back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    Leftie, looking at the 3rd and 4 quarters, Clemson took its foot off the gas or it could’ve rung up 60. It’s back up qb in the game, substituting very freely etc. And while I’ve heard all the bleating about the injured cornerback, Notre Dame couldn’t move the football for squat and that was a constant. Other than with agents of Notre Dame and it’s fans, it’s been just about universally acknowledged that ND had no place in the final four. Notre Dame loves to trot out its academics and its fans make excuses when they help their “ student athletes” “ a little too much” as if cheating by Notre Dame is just a big misunderstanding and the school is being persecuted. You know, there are those who feel that Notre Dame has gotten away with murder over the year. When Lou Holts was the coach there you could smell their football program a mile away.
    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    Leftie, Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, Clemson, Syracuse etc etc all have loyal fan bases because of their histories. That’s nothing unique or special about Notre Dame. And their constant blather suggesting that the school is somehow not in it for the money but for some “higher purpose” makes me double over with laughter. They ring every buck they can out of it, including an exceedingly lucrative tv contract, leasing out their “iconic” stadium to the NHL for an outdoor hockey game and peddling everything but the toilet paper in the locker room as souvenirs. Is “Touchdown Jesus” going to be rebranded as “Penalty Shot Jesus” for tomorrow’s hockey game?
    Sorry, Grump but you have no idea what you're talking about here.

    The fact that you include Michigan and Syracuse just illustrates you have the depth of a hot take. Like I said before, there are a handful of college football programs that operate at a different level. Some of this is inside the lines. Some of it is not.

    Schools like Bama and Clemson spare no expense when it comes to any cost with the program. From coaches salaries to football complexes that rival what is found in the NFL. They treat players like Gods on campus because they can't (legally) pay them.

    They will flush out players who don't cut it so that they can bring in new players and stay under 85. Other schools like Michigan, Stanford, and Notre Dame offer a 4 year scholarship. It's a different set of rules.

    You don't have the same depth of understanding as I do in regards to college football. If you would like to learn beyond a hot take...I'd be happy to share.

    As for the game and the playoffs:

    If you want to look at stats: here is a take, from the Alabama website, that goes way beyond what Tim Tebow, Desmond Howard or whatever idiot you get in the small Buffalo market for AM radio. https://www.rollbamaroll.com/2019/1/...than-it-seemed

    The playoffs were not about the 4 best teams. It was about 2 teams plus 2 teams. Some of the idiots you get your information from also were saying that Georgia, at 11-2, should have been in the final four because they lost a close game. Do you realize how stupid that sounds? They just lost, again, to a 4 loss Texas team not even ranked in the top 10.

    Right now Alabama and Clemson are playing at a different level.

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    Leftie, I only included Syracuse and Michigan because you made the point that Notre Dame has fans because of its history as if it’s the only program that has one and it’s certainly not the only college football program with a successful history that has a loyal fan base. I never suggested that Syracuse or Michigan are at the level of Alabama or Clemson. Although I gotta say that Syracuse gave Clemson a much tougher game in Clemson’s own damn house that Notre Dame gave them. That was this year. And, oh yeah, last season Syracuse beat #2 Clemson. Just sayin. If I feel I need an education on college football I’ll look you up. Thanks for the offer. And that Clemson and Alabama play at a different level in no way diminishes the facts of Notre Dame’s quarter century long dismal performance against top 5 teams and in big 6 bowl games. Without even looking I’d guess that the vast majority of those poor performances were not against the two monoliths. And however any other schools treat their players I can’t think of another one that manufactured a story about a player and a dead girlfriend who never existed.
    Last edited by grump; January 5th, 2019 at 02:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    Leftie, I only included Syracuse and Michigan because you made the point that Notre Dame has fans because of its history as if it’s the only program that has one and it’s certainly not the only college football program with a successful history that has a loyal fan base.
    Outside of a few years in the 90s, Syracuse hasn't been anything of importance in college football since the 60s. There is zero comparison in history between ND and Syracuse. Know your blue bloods.

    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    I never suggested that Syracuse or Michigan are at the level of Alabama or Clemson. Although I gotta say that Syracuse gave Clemson a much tougher game in Clemson’s own damn house that Notre Dame gave them. That was this year. And, oh yeah, last season Syracuse beat #2 Clemson. Just sayin.
    Ya, and Notre Dame beat that same Syracuse team that you're talking up 36-3...while Clemson only won 27-23. Comparisons like that are just stupid. Why is that? Well if you had a clue about college football you would know Clemson was playing with it's 3rd string QB against Syracuse. For the ND game, Cuse lost its QB sometime in the 2nd.

    Games are not the same. There is a difference when a team has 28 days to prep and get healthy compared to 5. For most college teams there is a massive drop off in talent from the 1st to 2nd team and then programs that don't have this there still is a drop off from the 2nd to 3rd team. People using transitive property in sports are morons and lazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    If I feel I need an education on college football I’ll look you up. Thanks for the offer.

    There is nothing wrong with being ignorant when it comes to the details of things. Just accept that you are. I think you use to be a CPA or CFO? I don't go around telling people how they should do their taxes. But I will tell them when they are wrong about web standards.

    Again, you obviously have little depth here so I'll just let you enjoy your cheap shots. ND is still going to be on NBC next year, they still will make it to the best bowl games and I'm still going to be a fan. I'll also still know more about this subject than you.

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    Leftie, I watched the Clemson Syracuse game and I know they played their third string qb due to injury. And I know that Syracuse lost it’s starting qb early in the ND game. I wasn’t talking up Syracuse...unless pointing out an obvious fact is talking something up. Well, I guess the vast majority of people, even some almost as knowledgeable as you, like the most sports media, are really just ignorant because they think ND is overrated. We’re probably all wrong and that 25 year record of futility against top 5 teams and in big 6 bowl games is fake news. As long as ND can ramps up the self-mythologizing machine they’ll get a major bowl bid. Thanks for bestowing a CPA designation on me but accounting as a career is my idea of hell on earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    Leftie, I watched the Clemson Syracuse game, and I know they played their third string QB due to injury. And I know that Syracuse lost it’s starting QB early in the ND game.
    So you know these things yet still use the games as an example. That's just silly.

    Go back to my first post here. It's all about depth. Schools like Alabama, Clemson have depth at both the 1st and 2nd string over every positon. Schools like ND, LSU and what not have 1st and 2nd string over most positions but don't for every. Schools like Cuse doesn't have any depth in the 2nd string.

    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    Well, I guess the vast majority of people, even some almost as knowledgeable as you, like the most sports media, are really just ignorant because they think ND is overrated. As long as ND can ramps up the self-mythologizing machine they’ll get a major bowl bid. Thanks for bestowing a CPA designation on me but accounting as a career is my idea of hell on earth.
    I think you need to understand the meaning of the words you use. Nobody, not even ND fans, said Notre Dame was better than Clemson or Alabama. As I have said before, those two teams are on a different level. So a loss there was not unexpected.

    Now where #hottake idiots work themselves into a lather in calling ND overrated is looking at the ND v. Clemson game and trying to use that to identify how good ND is in comparison to schools Oklahoma, Georgia, Ohio State, Michigan, UCF, Washington, Florida, LSU, Penn State, et all. If you want to try and make the case that ND is worse than any of these teams I'd love to hear your argument.

    But let me point out something that you seem not to grasp here. This is a message board about WNY yet you created a post about Notre Dame. A school in Ind. Why? Because you either love or hate Notre Dame. The same is not said for pretty much every school.

    So when you work as a 'journalist' or 'sports commentator' and you get paid by the number of people that click your article or tune into your show....you talk about Notre Dame. If you talk sh*t about ND you're going to get people on both sides. If you talk praise about ND you get people on both sides. So these opinions that you value so much....because you don't know what you're talking about...are really based on eyeballs and ears not insights.

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    Leftie, actually the message board is called “Speak Up Western New York”. It’s not called “Speak Up Western New York But Only About Things in Western New York”. I raised the issue because I watched a team get curb stomped by another team in a 4 team playoff for the national championship and the team that suffered the ass kicking has quarter century long record in major games against highly ranked opponents that stinks. Hence, I (and a measure of others, many of them at least as knowledgeable as you or I) think it’s time to weigh that factor in the decision about “who’s in”, as the tag line goes. It’s as simple as that. I’m fully aware of the differences in talent depth and recruiting policies among major college sports programs and football isn’t unique in that regard. Apparently, anyone who disputes the decision to put ND in the final 4 is simply too dim to understand things properly and only those who support ND football have a proper and complete understanding. All a part of the ND self-mythologizing. Count me among the dim ones because all the ND justification in the world can’t erase 25 years of futility.

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    Grump #HotTake 1 - Alabama is overrated. They were a sham the entire season but I am only going to say it now after their first loss to the first team to win 15 games in a season in the history of college football.

    Grump #HotTake 2 - Alabama lost to Clemson by 28. Notre Dame lost to Clemson by 27. Syracuse lost to Clemson by 4. Cuse is better than Alabama and Notre Dame.

    You don't know what you're talking about. You just parrot what you hear and listen to fools. You obviously have a bias and you let that cloud your judgment. It's a good thing the season is over because you are starting to embarrass yourself.

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