A charter school in the town...School Supplies

[Genoobie]

Genoobie, we both know why the teachers unions and their hand puppets in the PTA oppose testing. Testing doesn’t “cause”
problems in the education system. Rather, it highlights them. Most comical is the argument that it causes teachers to “teach to the test”. If, in fact, teachers are “teaching to the test” and that effort is producing the results it has, the disarray in the schools is far greater than we realize. And if they’re not going to teach material that the very system has determined to be key what in hell are they going to teach. Whenever they’re confronted with the decline of education, apologists draw out the “free meal” statistic. They wield it like Zorro wields his sword and they use it as an all purpose cover for everything. Of course, based on free meal eligibilty statistics, every student in the NYC schools is in poverty because every student is entitled to a free meal, every one. The number of participants in these programs has increased as participation standards have been loosened to allow schools greater and greater control over the lives of students and to diminish the role of family. It’s a political program pure and simple. As with “teaching to the test” the free meal program, if meant to improve performance (and that’s the package of horse**** people were sold to support it), it has proved to be another colossal bust.

So, I basically poke a hole in your merger argument with statistics and you revert back to a straw man filled with ad hominem re: unions, teachers, free meals, in some sort of crazy man rant. Plain and simple, charters, in their 15+ years of existence in Buffalo haven't moved the needle on educational achievement, period. The competition model doesn't apply to education because assessing value (by the consumer) is an impossible proposition and the testing requirements that are allegedly a measure of value are both invalid and unreliable. Those are statistical terms and you'd do best to look up their specific meaning.
The American Statistical Association, who I put far more stock in than some crazy guy in Amherst, has determined that teachers account for a very small portion of a student's performance on testing. This actually supports your idea that outside forces play a large role in education (as you mentioned the role of the family). They essentially say that a teacher's actions account for between 1% and 14% of variation in test scores. This doesn't mean teachers have no impact, but rather the metric, the test scores themselves are not a valid measure of teaching. I know I'm going out on a limb here, but you might try reading this paper on VAM and measuring teacher effectiveness.
http://www.amstat.org/asa/files/pdfs...-Statement.pdf

Furthermore, with the focus on testing, not just in NY but nationally that has happened since NCLB started, the changes have been marginal, at best. I can't believe I'm asking this, but here's another article that has evidence to support my claim.
https://www.chalkbeat.org/posts/us/2...-behind-finds/

Anyhow, I've provided article after article to support my claims on testing and the shortcomings of using that to measure value, competition, etc., between schools, you have provided...well, your opinion. There's nothing more to really be said to you as your opinion regarding these matters is pretty well solidified and in light of evidence you remain unflagging with your verbal ichor. Good luck and good day.

[Genoobie]

Testing isn't everything but it is a general guide to the ability of a kid to learn things. Like do basic math, understand general topics and even memorize things. Even though having a good memory doesn't mean you are a good problem solver.

So if the tests are assessing memory what test scores show is that those schools that have higher scores have a greater concentration of a) students who may value what is being presented and thus are more likely to learn it or b) simply have better memories because fewer factors exist to distract students' attention away from academic work.

Do tests value memory or thinking more? In reality you need a bit of both. But then, removing time limits, in an effort to assess problem solving skills, has yet to be shown to be valid / reliable.

I don't care about dance class but they have to offer the basics that are required. . I think competition is good. There will less kids in one school so they will need less funding. If the new school can do it better for less we can open more and close down the other schools. IF the results are the same then it's about the money.

But not all costs are variable costs, you should know this from your business acumen. And not all variable costs are linear. For example if a classroom of 30 drops to 29, you cannot lay off that teacher, so even though teachers are a variable cost, they are non-linear.
The "results" as assessed by test scores will be about the same, the overall educational attainment and outcomes will be lower as money is diverted away from the classroom and put into buildings and developer's pockets. Carl Paladino, a major funder of charter school investment has seen a 10% ROI on his loans to charters. Not bad, hmm? But that is money not going into a classroom and not going to keep good teachers (charters have a much higher turnover of teachers than other schools because the working conditions are poor and the pay is mediocre relative to other districts). Since the alleged measure of student performance is test scores, many teacher opt for an easy route of going to higher paying, wealthier districts where the kids are likely to do well on tests with letter effort on the teacher's part. So districts like Buffalo, Cheektowaga where the scores are consistently lower, it's harder to get teachers to work there. The same goes for charters.
Interesting that there's no call for charters in East Aurora, Clarence, etc., must be because the areas are a fairly homogeneous population to begin with.

[WNYresident]

I agree with you on testing/time limits etc. I would add c) who have parents actively in their education outside of school are more likely to know more... err something like that

I know that all cost are not variable but then again we are not talking 1 child out of a class of 30. We may be talking 150 children which could be 5 30 student classrooms.

[Genoobie]

I agree with you on testing/time limits etc. I would add c) stupid who have parents actively in their education outside of school are more likely to know more... err something like that

I know that all cost are not variable but then again we are not talking 1 child out of a class of 30. We may be talking 150 children which could be 5 30 student classrooms.

The reality is, in Buffalo, most charters are struggling to meet their enrollment requirements.
I'd be open to having a discussion re: pension reform and properly funding a sustainable future, but not via repeated small business failures. I'd like to see more in the way of public works and housing rehabilitation. Jobs that are sustainable. Frankly, I think that portions of the military budget could go to this (instead of subcontracts to Blackwater and expensive but non-useful weaponry) and then you'd get lefties on board with the military. Also, most on the right consider any cut to military budgets as a treasonous act so cutting military budgets is not really an option at the moment.

So now the fixed cost per pupil in Cheektowaga just rose as a result of that shift. Since charters don't keep teachers very long, students are always in the hands of new and inexperienced teachers. Teachers who are definitely not as effective at challenging students as more seasoned teachers would be. New teachers are likely to be more permissive with grades, lenient with discipline and students are less likely to grown under those conditions. I teach students from both charters and public schools and the charter school students have turned out to be less prepared than their public school counterparts for rigorous academic work.

[Genoobie]

You might find this recent study interesting...
https://news.virginia.edu/content/ne...vate-schooling

[WNYresident]

That article really doesn't make any sense. How could any student not do better in a better environment?

[Genoobie]

That article really doesn't make any sense. How could any student not do better in a better environment?

Depends on what you're using to measure outcomes, right?

[WNYresident]

I guess it depends who is writing the article. I personally think an "environment" is important with any situation. Education, raising an animal and/or work.

[cheekman]

The charter school was shot down for the Cheektowaga central school dist. Thank god for the Cheektowaga res.