And this is how it happens...

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

UB just announced it is going to purchase a 15-acre parcel from St. John Baptist Church for $15,000,000. That is $1,000,000 per acre in the City of Buffalo folks. All of that money is coming from the taxpayer in some shape or form.

But it gets better.....

St. John Baptist Church wants to invest $500,000,000 in the Fruit Belt. Yes, 1/2 a BILLION dollars in a section of town where you can purchase a 3bed/1.5bath home for $40,000. Anyone want to take a guess where the $500M is going to come from eventually?

But it gets even better....

The plan calls for $60,000,000 to be spent to build replacement housing for the residents of 150 townhomes who will need to be relocated.



So some simple math.

150 townhomes for $15M = $100,000 per townhouse and 1 acre of land.

then to build replacement housing you have

150 townhomes for $60M = $400,000 per townhouse

For a grand total of:

$500,000.00 per townhouse that was already built by the taxpayer and subsidized the whole time.


Then, another $440,000,000 to build more stuff for the neighborhood.



-Sidenote- When the Buffalo News first published the post at 7:09 am, it included the $60M figure. However, the News edited the post and republished at 8:39 am without the $60M figure.

Gee...I wonder who made that call?

[Linda_D]

I think that $40,000 figure is a bit high. It's more like $25,000.

[PickOranges]

UB just announced it is going to purchase a 15-acre parcel from St. John Baptist Church for $15,000,000. That is $1,000,000 per acre in the City of Buffalo folks. All of that money is coming from the taxpayer in some shape or form.

But it gets better.....

St. John Baptist Church wants to invest $500,000,000 in the Fruit Belt. Yes, 1/2 a BILLION dollars in a section of town where you can purchase a 3bed/1.5bath home for $40,000. Anyone want to take a guess where the $500M is going to come from eventually?

But it gets even better....

The plan calls for $60,000,000 to be spent to build replacement housing for the residents of 150 townhomes who will need to be relocated.



So some simple math.

150 townhomes for $15M = $100,000 per townhouse and 1 acre of land.

then to build replacement housing you have

150 townhomes for $60M = $400,000 per townhouse

For a grand total of:

$500,000.00 per townhouse that was already built by the taxpayer and subsidized the whole time.


Then, another $440,000,000 to build more stuff for the neighborhood.



-Sidenote- When the Buffalo News first published the post at 7:09 am, it included the $60M figure. However, the News edited the post and republished at 8:39 am without the $60M figure.

Gee...I wonder who made that call?

Great post. Since it is our money, it flows ever so freely..

[Edisonic]

Sold last year: 112 Grape St. 3/3 double $3900. Thirty-nine hundred, that is.

336 E.North St - 3 bedroom, 1 bath single ... $10,000

108 Mulberry, built in 1992 - 3 bed, 1 bath single... $41,000 (but note that when it was new, it sold for $69,900 & probably had a 20-25K subsidy on top of that )

Can't find any $400,000 units in the Fruit Belt, surprise surprise !

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Great post. Since it is our money, it flows ever so freely..

The worst part about it is how naive people are as to what is going on.

BuffaloRising posted about it...

The vision for East Side Development includes: business development entrepreneurship, $60 million in new townhouses, two low-rise senior residential buildings, a $20 million youth facility, a $234 million High Street commercial development project, a building to house corporate offices, a youth boxing and Business Entrepreneurship Training Center for 300-500 young adults age 21-35, and $20 million invested in infrastructure, sidewalks, curbs, lighting, greenery, an East Side mental health facility, assisted living and veterans residential facilities, as well as a Fruit Belt grocery and petroleum station.

Sure $500M in development is exciting. There are lots of plans that could be done around the region for $500M. But the City of Buffalo is BROKE!

Instead of spending $60M on new townhouses, why not rehab the 1000s of existing structures?

The $234M High Street commercial development project is just another way of saying... We are going to spend taxpayers money on developing a false business community and going to make it exclusive to minorities.



The same people who are for these types of projects are the same idiots who are against tax breaks for the rich on $1m condos. It is so telling....

[Dougles]

St. John Baptist Church wants to invest $500,000,000 in the Fruit Belt. Yes, 1/2 a BILLION dollars in a section of town where you can purchase a 3bed/1.5bath home for $40,000. Anyone want to take a guess where the $500M is going to come from eventually?

What Church has $500,000,000???

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

What Church has $500,000,000???

There are lots of churches with that kind of money. However, it is their money.

This situation is a church is asking for the Government to give them money so they can develop things for their congregation.

You have to wonder, who is going to benefit? Do you have to go to this church to get a slice of the pie? Who is going to do the development?

[Dougles]

This situation is a church is asking for the Government to give them money so they can develop things for their congregation.

Wait, what about the seperation of church and state?

DM why aren't you and all the other liberals all over this?

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Wait, what about the separation of church and state?

DM why aren't you and all the other liberals all over this?

One would think it matters more to be PC and not be critical of a black church then point out this is clearly a church and state issue.

[Linda_D]

Let me guess, the Buffalo Rising crowd are all going to move there, right???

The sad fact is that unless they already live in the Fruit Belt, Buffalonians are NOT going to be willing to move there. This has been proven again and again. People will buy Downtown, in the Delaware District, South Buffalo, and North Buffalo. Many are willing to buy on the West Side, especially if they can find a cheap fixer with unique architecture on a decent block.

New builds on the East Side have been a dismal failure because they cannot be sold for what the original purchasers paid for them. They are foreclosures waiting to happen.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Let me guess, the Buffalo Rising crowd are all going to move there, right???

From what I can read...most are just concerned as to what is going to be built and how it will look. They have little to no concern as to how it is being paid for.

The BRO crowd has some perception challenges. Just as WNYmedia does and SpeakUpWNY. From what I can see...not many see the big picture.

The sad fact is that unless they already live in the Fruit Belt, Buffalonians are NOT going to be willing to move there. This has been proven again and again. People will buy Downtown, in the Delaware District, South Buffalo, and North Buffalo. Many are willing to buy on the West Side, especially if they can find a cheap fixer with unique architecture on a decent block.

Well, I could see the Fruit Belt being a place where people would move to...if they cleared everything South of Best St and had some serious urban gentrification happen. But this is not the plan.

New builds on the East Side have been a dismal failure because they cannot be sold for what the original purchasers paid for them. They are foreclosures waiting to happen.

Agree.




Another thing that bugs me about this is McCarley Gardens were built with taxpayer money and now that they are being sold...nothing is going back to the taxpayer. So essentially, this church was given government housing, they are selling it for a HUGE profit and not want MORE money to build more stuff.

[Michele J]

I see the big picture but most dont want to see what I see..landbanking is key to the survival of our neighborhoods..survival of the fittest..and no I dont mean bulldozing the whole east side..STRATEGIC LANDBANKING is what needs to transpire.

[300miles]

IMO, these need to be broken down into the separate projects they really are. The criticism is justified, but it's being incorrectly viewed as one project by the omnipotently evil/stupid/corrupt "THEY".

Project 1 = UB Expansion into the Medical Campus. They want the McCarley Gardens site for new development and have been negotiating with them for quite a while. Is $15 million too much for those 15 acres? Maybe. Maybe not. When you consider the large number of people living there, many which don't want to leave, then you quickly see a problem: Protests... Lawsuits... Grandstanding the plight of the poor... All the stuff that UB would want to avoid. So they negotiated quietly with the landlord - St John's, and came up with an agreement for $15 million. It avoids any potential for protests, petitions, and lawsuits because the owner is happy with the sale price. And that money is not taxpayer money. It's coming from the UB Foundation which is partly donations, grants, philanthropy, whatever, and is already set aside for UB to spend however it wishes.

That is the current extent of Project 1, with lots more details to be figured out. And with all the condescension on this board about the infamous "BRO crowd", I will put myself in that crowd and agree it's an exciting project that will help get a large UB campus finally downtown. UB is being realistic and knows it needs to find more money, and knows the project could take decades to complete. To UB's credit, it wants to raise more money on its own by controlling it's own tuition fees. Something we should support.


Project 2 = the church's plans to relocate the people and redevelop the fruit belt. This one needs some work, and I doubt the $500 million figure is anything more than a number written on paper. The project doesn't seem to be anchored in reality. But maybe it just needs to get it's feet on the ground. Who knows. There are no details. But to clarify - the city of Buffalo has nothing to do with it at this point, as far as I know. And neither does UB. In this case "THEY" is only the church... no one else.

The problem comes in if Project 2 holds up Project 1. Because UB can't do much with the site until every one has been relocated. So I would assume that UB insisted the relocation piece is completed first before the other grandiose plans hold it up.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

IMO, these need to be broken down into the separate projects they really are. The criticism is justified, but it's being incorrectly viewed as one project by the omnipotently evil/stupid/corrupt "THEY".

But they really are not separate from what I can see. UB agreed to purchase the complex of buildings and land for $15M. However, the replacement buildings alone are being projected at $60M. The $45M gap between what was paid for the complex and what is planned for the new housing bridges the two.

Project 1 = UB Expansion into the Medical Campus. They want the McCarley Gardens site for new development and have been negotiating with them for quite a while. Is $15 million too much for those 15 acres? Maybe. Maybe not. When you consider the large number of people living there, many which don't want to leave, then you quickly see a problem: Protests... Lawsuits... Grandstanding the plight of the poor... All the stuff that UB would want to avoid. So they negotiated quietly with the landlord - St John's, and came up with an agreement for $15 million. It avoids any potential for protests, petitions, and lawsuits because the owner is happy with the sale price. And that money is not taxpayer money. It's coming from the UB Foundation which is partly donations, grants, philanthropy, whatever, and is already set aside for UB to spend however it wishes.

I think $15M is way too much for this. I also think that people who live in a subsidized environment should not have the same say as someone who purchased a property. I understand some residents are upset...but in the big picture...we should not care.

Added to this, at some point in the past this land was private property. At some point, it was acquired by the taxpayer and given to a non-profit. Now that the non-profit is turning around and selling it for a large profit..should raise some concerns.

As for the UB funding not coming from the taxpayer...in a round about way it does. UB is equivalent to the teenager with a part time job. This purchase is like a teen buying an iPad. Sure they purchased it with their 'own money' but they do not have pay for rent or food.

UB has a pathetic endowment for a school its size and the amount of alumni it has. As long as it is being propped up by the taxpayers in the state, I do not see how they can separate these funds.

That is the current extent of Project 1, with lots more details to be figured out. And with all the condescension on this board about the infamous "BRO crowd", I will put myself in that crowd and agree it's an exciting project that will help get a large UB campus finally downtown. UB is being realistic and knows it needs to find more money, and knows the project could take decades to complete. To UB's credit, it wants to raise more money on its own by controlling it's own tuition fees. Something we should support.

I used to comment on BRO until Newell kicked me off the site for mocking BRO for selling posts as a form of advertising. I am very familiar with the mindset. My who point on the BRO comment was 90% of the people are completely unrealistic. Every.Single.Project announced gets the same comments about design standards. However, every.single.comment about the reality of the business environment in Buffalo is met with ignorance.

I am all for great design and saving what Buffalo has and trying to build for the future. But what Buffalo is missing most and the main reason why great things are not built is a healthy business environment.

Project 2 = the church's plans to relocate the people and redevelop the fruit belt. This one needs some work, and I doubt the $500 million figure is anything more than a number written on paper. The project doesn't seem to be anchored in reality. But maybe it just needs to get it's feet on the ground. Who knows. There are no details. But to clarify - the city of Buffalo has nothing to do with it at this point, as far as I know. And neither does UB. In this case "THEY" is only the church... no one else.

But the sad reality is just a number on paper becomes a number on a check if you collect enough votes. On all of the comments I have read about this, only a few are questioning the cost behind it. This 'idea' is bigger and more expensive then Canal Side yet is not even close to having the same intolerance.

Make no mistake, they will find a way to have the taxpayer fund this and find a way to chalk it up to progress. It is how it works in Buffalo.

The problem comes in if Project 2 holds up Project 1. Because UB can't do much with the site until every one has been relocated. So I would assume that UB insisted the relocation piece is completed first before the other grandiose plans hold it up.

Well for this to happen, $45M has to come out of thin air. The initial projections of replacement housing is $60M and UB only paid $15.

Even if none of the grand plans are envisioned, the taxpayer just got bent over for $45M...they just may not feel it for a while.

If common sense was used, they would take $100k per each displaced unit and purchase a home in the area and provide rehab money.

Hell, they could even give the houses to the people and make them 'homeowners' provided they are no longer welcome in subsidized housing if/when they can not maintain the homes they were given. While not right on so many levels, at least the taxpayer would be protected from the burden.

[Deerhunter]

but City Cops are overpaid..........you don't think we see millions of dollars wasted, all the while this moron mayor says the city can't afford our contract. The connected, and i mean , well connected have and continue to fleece this area. And they have the Bflo Snooze in their corner. Take all that money and knock down the run down , dangerous , deplorable vacant houses and buildings. Then evaluate what should be invested in. It is sickening to see all the public taxpayer money that is wasted. And listen to people bitch about how much Cops in Bflo make. Seems every project where those connected will profit from, the publics money becomes available, too big to fail................bs